The Official F1 2021 silly season *contains speculation*

[vaud]

Good. I think the seat suits him and the lower pressure environment seems to help. Great to see some of his drives.

[anonymous-user]

number2 said:

TheInternet said:

Deesee said:

Gasly has resigned for AT for 2021..

No news on the other seat..

Ah, resigned, for a moment I thought you meant he resigned.

Me too, looking forward to the seat discussion, but he has re-signed .

Me too, do we think Albon might be demoted back to AT?

[TheDeuce]

leef44 said:

TheDeuce said:

This^^^

The media are quick to zoom in on 'Ferrari resurgence' and it can look very promising. But across an entire season's worth of circuits and circumstances their car isn't good enough to be a threat and I'd be as bold as to say the team isn't entirely on top of the sport these days either.

Whatever factors we can imagine changing, such as second drivers... The bottom line is that the RB is the second best car on the grid and Ferrari, along with the others, are a significant step back from the package RB field currently - and will also have next season.

I firmly believe a driver can make a real difference but ultimately the potential for what a driver can do is set by the car and the team running it.

The past is not necessarily a predicter of the future. We've seen how all the teams have made development over the year versus McLaren who looks like they've stood still.

But the point was that Verstappen alone could not hold 2nd place for Constructors without a strong enough 2nd driver compared to Le CLerc with a motivated Sainz for next year. We will see.

We shall.

I'm extremely doubtful that Ferrari even with two good drivers are in a good enough place next year - and I think we can 'predict the future' well enough, as it's clear to see the development mish mash that lead to this years Ferrari being somewhat hamstrung, and we know that the same development limitations extend in to next year. Ferrari may surprise me to an extent with further improvements, but I don't think it's unreasonable to say that the current gulf in performance between the Ferrari and the top teams is just too much to be bridged whilst their hands are tied in terms of development potential.

I simply don't think it's possible to improve that car enough to be a threat to RB over the course of a season, no matter who drives it.

This season, even if they had 2 Leclerc's, RB would be ahead still even if they only had Max scoring points for them. That illustrates the actual gap in competitiveness.

[thegreenhell]

Joey Deacon said:

Me too, do we think Albon might be demoted back to AT?

I wouldn't be surprised if he were demoted to Formula E.

[Deesee]

Joey Deacon said:

number2 said:

TheInternet said:

Deesee said:

Gasly has resigned for AT for 2021..

No news on the other seat..

Ah, resigned, for a moment I thought you meant he resigned.

Me too, looking forward to the seat discussion, but he has re-signed .

Me too, do we think Albon might be demoted back to AT?

I think Albon is out of F1..

[Sandpit Steve]

Joey Deacon said:

Me too, do we think Albon might be demoted back to AT?

That’s looking the most likely option, Albon joining Gasly at AT, with the underperforming Kvyat dropped, and either Hulk or Pérez joining Max at RB.

As has been discussed ad infinitum, RB need a second driver like Mercedes have Bottas. Someone who can at least keep the first driver honest and play a part in the team’s strategy, picking up regular podiums and the occasional win.

Red Bull do appear to have made the car very difficult to drive though, Max can get on with it in the race, but still usually goes for a spin or two during the practice sessions.

[vaud]

thegreenhell said:

I wouldn't be surprised if he were demoted to Formula E.

I agree.

[thegreenhell]

Sandpit Steve said:

Joey Deacon said:

Me too, do we think Albon might be demoted back to AT?

That’s looking the most likely option, Albon joining Gasly at AT, with the underperforming Kvyat dropped, and either Hulk or Pérez joining Max at RB.

It's interesting that Horner and Marko no longer refer to AT as the junior team. They now insist that it's a sister team, and able to choose its own drivers on its own terms. I don't think we can anymore assume that AT is the finishing school for a full RBR drive, and nor is it an automatic home for RBR rejects.

I think it will be Hulk or Perez with Max at RBR, and Tsunoda with Gasly at AT. Both Albon and Kvyat will be gone from F1, probably for good.

[DanielSan]

Putting Tsunoda in the AT seems likely if they want to give Honda a little bit extra towards using their engines after 22

[leef44]

TheDeuce said:

We shall.

I'm extremely doubtful that Ferrari even with two good drivers are in a good enough place next year - and I think we can 'predict the future' well enough, as it's clear to see the development mish mash that lead to this years Ferrari being somewhat hamstrung, and we know that the same development limitations extend in to next year. Ferrari may surprise me to an extent with further improvements, but I don't think it's unreasonable to say that the current gulf in performance between the Ferrari and the top teams is just too much to be bridged whilst their hands are tied in terms of development potential.

I simply don't think it's possible to improve that car enough to be a threat to RB over the course of a season, no matter who drives it.

This season, even if they had 2 Leclerc's, RB would be ahead still even if they only had Max scoring points for them. That illustrates the actual gap in competitiveness.

Ah yes! I didn't account for Ferrari management. They will always find a way to screw it up for the team.

I remember when they sacked Raikonnen after qualifying on Pole in Monza. Not the best time to tell him, Vettel then got screwed trying to overtake Raikonnen and a one-two Ferrari start ended up a one-two Mercedes finish.

They then couldn't utilise Le Clerc's potential in his debut year because he must be held back behind Vettel.

And then to top it off, let's tell Vettel he is sacked without negotiation at the start of the season.

They do know how to royally screw themselves up.

So on that account, I believe you are right, it doesn't matter what the driver line up is for Ferrari, they will make sure they fall behind.

[vaud]

leef44 said:

And then to top it off, let's tell Vettel he is sacked without negotiation at the start of the season.

Minor point but he wasn't sacked, they just chose not to renew his contract for 2021+ and gave him as much notice as possible.

[TheDeuce]

leef44 said:

Ah yes! I didn't account for Ferrari management. They will always find a way to screw it up for the team.

I remember when they sacked Raikonnen after qualifying on Pole in Monza. Not the best time to tell him, Vettel then got screwed trying to overtake Raikonnen and a one-two Ferrari start ended up a one-two Mercedes finish.

They then couldn't utilise Le Clerc's potential in his debut year because he must be held back behind Vettel.

And then to top it off, let's tell Vettel he is sacked without negotiation at the start of the season.

They do know how to royally screw themselves up.

So on that account, I believe you are right, it doesn't matter what the driver line up is for Ferrari, they will make sure they fall behind.

You forgot Leclercs home GP at Monaco, where they refused to let him go out again in Q1 and he was eliminated, even though he could so easily have gone out again and set one of the fastest times... Just threw an entire race away before it even began!

Farcical.

[Mark-C]

thegreenhell said:

Joey Deacon said:

Me too, do we think Albon might be demoted back to AT?

I wouldn't be surprised if he were demoted to Formula E.

Or a reasonable career in LMP2 unless he can bag himself a Hypercar seat with one of the manufacturers ... there are some OK options out there for not quite good enough for F1 drivers.

[Mr_Thyroid]

TheDeuce said:

Farcical.

Ferrarcical.

[Deesee]

TheDeuce said:

You forgot Leclercs home GP at Monaco, where they refused to let him go out again in Q1 and he was eliminated, even though he could so easily have gone out again and set one of the fastest times... Just threw an entire race away before it even began!

Farcical.

Depends how much fuel they had in the tank/sensor CLC had 7 poles last yr..

The Ferrari was a bit front row or nothing, I suppose..

[spunkytherabbit]

Mark-C said:

thegreenhell said:

Joey Deacon said:

Me too, do we think Albon might be demoted back to AT?

I wouldn't be surprised if he were demoted to Formula E.

Or a reasonable career in LMP2 unless he can bag himself a Hypercar seat with one of the manufacturers ... there are some OK options out there for not quite good enough for F1 drivers.

What about for a not quite good enough F1 driver? As RBR have successfully managed to make Albon look. I don't for one minute think with all the young driver program drivers RBR have chewed up and spat out over the years Albon and others can be as bad as they have actually looked at RBR. Or are the RB talent spotters going for quantity over quality when they recruit to the program hoping that from % alone eventually one of them is the next big thing?

[Sandpit Steve]

Mark-C said:

Or a reasonable career in LMP2 unless he can bag himself a Hypercar seat with one of the manufacturers ... there are some OK options out there for not quite good enough for F1 drivers.

How many series are actually out there with six-figure driver budgets?

F1, FE, WEC LMP/Hypercar, Indy, NASCAR, DTM, maybe factory teams in Aussie and UK touring cars. Is that about it?

Most former F1 drivers can (and do) make more money from media and promotional work, than driving cars in races.

[anonymous-user]

Sandpit Steve said:

Mark-C said:

Or a reasonable career in LMP2 unless he can bag himself a Hypercar seat with one of the manufacturers ... there are some OK options out there for not quite good enough for F1 drivers.

How many series are actually out there with six-figure driver budgets?

F1, FE, WEC LMP/Hypercar, Indy, NASCAR, DTM, maybe factory teams in Aussie and UK touring cars. Is that about it?

Most former F1 drivers can (and do) make more money from media and promotional work, than driving cars in races.

I am sure I read an interview with Mark Blundell years ago who said there were only 300 drivers world wide who got paid enough so it was their only job.

Going by that list above it doesn't sound a million miles off?

[LaurasOtherHalf]

Look everyone needs to get something straight about Albon. He was out of the preogram and away to Formula E before Riciardo spoiled the party and left for renault.

He was never highly rated. He took his chances in the Toro Rosso and got lucky, bagging a seat in a front running car he didn’t have the skill for.

I might be wrong, but as far as I’m aware he has never won a championship in any lower formula.

Nice kid, but clearly not very talented and in no way deserving of the second best car in the grid.

[Sandpit Steve]

Joey Deacon said:

I am sure I read an interview with Mark Blundell years ago who said there were only 300 drivers world world who got paid enough so it was their only job.

Going by that list above it doesn't sound a million miles off?

World Rally Championship would be another, plus the world championships on bikes.

Pretty much everyone else is paying for their motorsports, taking a business risk, or has personal sponsors.