Official 2020 Austrian & Styrian Grand Prix Thread *Spoilers
Discussion
Rat_Fink_67 said:
Has anyone seen anything from Mercedes regarding why they didn't pit at the end? Strategy isn't always their strong suit but it still seems a very needlessly risky move. Hamilton incident and then reliability aside, there was every chance that Albon could've caught and passed Bottas for the lead, and on a weekend where Mercedes were so obviously dominant, that seems almost inexcusable?! You can bet Max would've been there at the end too, and it could've been a very bad weekend for the Mercs.
They had already turned the cars down as a precaution. If Albon had threatened Bottas, they could have turned his car up again - lesser of two evils..Even as it was, I thought Lewis would be able to hold Albon off. I don't think anyone expected the slightly kamikaze pass on the outside. We'll never know, but if that pass had failed without blame, would he ultimately have passed Lewis later on? I think it was always going to be a risk as he didn't have enough speed over the Merc to do it entirely safely at any point.
One thing is certain though, we now know Albon will always go for the gap!
I'm sorry for Albon, he was in with a good shout until the clash. But it did give us Christian Horner having to talk about scoring no points on a race they could have won or got at least one podium spot. As Nelson says... 'Ha-ha'.
So were the electronics (?) failures on both cars due to Red Bull parts or Honda parts?
So were the electronics (?) failures on both cars due to Red Bull parts or Honda parts?
Edited by ajprice on Monday 6th July 10:11
TheDeuce said:
They had already turned the cars down as a precaution. If Albon had threatened Bottas, they could have turned his car up again - lesser of two evils..
Even as it was, I thought Lewis would be able to hold Albon off. I don't think anyone expected the slightly kamikaze pass on the outside. We'll never know, but if that pass had failed without blame, would he ultimately have passed Lewis later on? I think it was always going to be a risk as he didn't have enough speed over the Merc to do it entirely safely at any point.
One thing is certain though, we now know Albon will always go for the gap!
Could they have turned the cars up though? I guess it's an unknown really. In light of what's now been described as "critical" transmission issues, particularly on Bottas' car, the Mercedes pace at the end may have been all they had. Which would kind of explain why Bottas and Hamilton didn't stick in a final "banzai" lap to see off the Norris threat properly at the end? Even on "wounded bullets" though, you have to assume that had the two Mercedes cars been on fresh tyres at the end they would've at least been in a better position to defend. Albon's attempt was a bit of a speculative lunge, but if Lewis had had more grip to firstly accelerate harder away from the Red Bull, and then brake later, then the opportunity probably wouldn't have arisen anyway. Even as it was, I thought Lewis would be able to hold Albon off. I don't think anyone expected the slightly kamikaze pass on the outside. We'll never know, but if that pass had failed without blame, would he ultimately have passed Lewis later on? I think it was always going to be a risk as he didn't have enough speed over the Merc to do it entirely safely at any point.
One thing is certain though, we now know Albon will always go for the gap!
All ifs and buts I know, I was just curious about why Mercedes didn't see necessary to stick fresher boots on.
N0ddie said:
I don't think Albon was robbed at all. On lap 1 Hamilton and Albon had a very similar exchange however Hamilton was on the outside. On the exit Hamilton knew the it wasn't gonna work (There'd be contact) so bailed on the manouvre.
However, roles reversed the younger more naive Albon didn't see what was happening and the crash was the result.
Albon is no pushover. Credit to him for making a bold move on Lewis using his fresher softs - Lewis hit his rear tyre and took a penalty. Looked very clumsy by Lewis (and a poor weekend for him in general). If Albon can get a bit nearer Max in qualifying, he's got the attitude and race pace to take a few wins this year.However, roles reversed the younger more naive Albon didn't see what was happening and the crash was the result.
N0ddie said:
I don't think Albon was robbed at all. On lap 1 Hamilton and Albon had a very similar exchange however Hamilton was on the outside. On the exit Hamilton knew the it wasn't gonna work (There'd be contact) so bailed on the manouvre.
However, roles reversed the younger more naive Albon didn't see what was happening and the crash was the result.
There's a slight difference, in that on lap-1 the cars were dead along-side each other as the car on the inside drifted out to the racing line. In the later instance, the car on the outside was more than half a car's length ahead. However, roles reversed the younger more naive Albon didn't see what was happening and the crash was the result.
If you watch the lap-1 incident, you can see Hamilton reach to Albon being there just before contact with a jerk to the left, out onto the run-off to avoid contact. In the later instance, Albon wouldn't actually have been able to see where Hamilton was because Hamilton's car was entirely behind his cockpit. He'd have known he was there somewhere, but he didn't have the visual information to know he was about to be hit. I suspect Albon thought he was through until contact was made.
I don't know if that makes a difference in terms of the rules, but it certainly makes a practical difference. If Albon had been past, and had decided to leave the track "just in case Hamilton was still alongside and taking the racing line" there would have been an argument that he passed by going off the track and have to give the place back.
There's also always the point that, rightly or wrongly, stewards always let drivers get away with a lot more on the first corner or two because it's so chaotic.
Edited by kambites on Monday 6th July 10:19
Rat_Fink_67 said:
Could they have turned the cars up though? I guess it's an unknown really. In light of what's now been described as "critical" transmission issues, particularly on Bottas' car, the Mercedes pace at the end may have been all they had. Which would kind of explain why Bottas and Hamilton didn't stick in a final "banzai" lap to see off the Norris threat properly at the end? Even on "wounded bullets" though, you have to assume that had the two Mercedes cars been on fresh tyres at the end they would've at least been in a better position to defend. Albon's attempt was a bit of a speculative lunge, but if Lewis had had more grip to firstly accelerate harder away from the Red Bull, and then brake later, then the opportunity probably wouldn't have arisen anyway.
All ifs and buts I know, I was just curious about why Mercedes didn't see necessary to stick fresher boots on.
Thinking further about it.. I think Mercedes probably just wanted to run out the race the safest way possible, which they calculated they could do without pitting (which a risk in itself). They might have also not calculated that Albon was as able or willing to go for the pass as he proved to be! A lesson learned for the future perhaps.. but I don't think they made any bad calls yesterday - without the benefit of hindsight their decision to not pit is understandable.All ifs and buts I know, I was just curious about why Mercedes didn't see necessary to stick fresher boots on.
TheDeuce said:
Thinking further about it.. I think Mercedes probably just wanted to run out the race the safest way possible, which they calculated they could do without pitting (which a risk in itself). They might have also not calculated that Albon was as able or willing to go for the pass as he proved to be! A lesson learned for the future perhaps.. but I don't think they made any bad calls yesterday - without the benefit of hindsight their decision to not pit is understandable.
Merc are typically very passive with strategy, this was another example of that. They were lucky it didn't cost them Bottas' winLando's full last lap and uncensored celebration (language warning): https://streamable.com/vq4qzb
130R said:
Lando's full last lap and uncensored celebration (language warning): https://streamable.com/vq4qzb
That was great to see and hear. What a result for him and the team! 130R said:
Lando's full last lap and uncensored celebration (language warning): https://streamable.com/vq4qzb
Pleased for him and McLaren, and not to take anything away from the lap, but wasn't driver coaching from the pitwall outlawed a few years ago? There was a lot of "press overtake here" and "press and hold here" going on 
I know there's always feedback about engine and chassis modes etc during a race, but that sounded like almost corner by corner instruction! It's obviously allowed though.
Rat_Fink_67 said:
130R said:
Lando's full last lap and uncensored celebration (language warning): https://streamable.com/vq4qzb
... wasn't driver coaching from the pitwall outlawed a few years ago? There was a lot of "press overtake here" and "press and hold here" going on ....
, great to see them getting closer to the front end after Honda.Evangelion said:
So when was the last time a McLaren got a podium or fastest lap? I'm sure someone can tell us.
Podium, Sainz in Brazil 2019.Fastest lap, not sure, is there anything more recent than Perez in Malaysia 2013 (according to Wikipedia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Malaysian_Gra... ). 2013 was the last year they had with Vodafone sponsorship. 2014 was the last McLaren-Mercedes and they had the chrome and black cars with MP4-29 instead of sponsorship
, after that it was Honda.ajprice said:
Evangelion said:
So when was the last time a McLaren got a podium or fastest lap? I'm sure someone can tell us.
Podium, Sainz in Brazil 2019.Fastest lap, not sure, is there anything more recent than Perez in Malaysia 2013 (according to Wikipedia https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013_Malaysian_Gra... ). 2013 was the last year they had with Vodafone sponsorship. 2014 was the last McLaren-Mercedes and they had the chrome and black cars with MP4-29 instead of sponsorship
, after that it was Honda.ETA: Twice as it turns out. At Monza (!) 2016 and Hungary 2017.
Edited by Dr Z on Monday 6th July 11:59
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