Official 2020 Austrian & Styrian Grand Prix Thread *Spoilers

[TheDeuce]

DanielSan said:

I can already see it now, bolt a whole st load of parts onto the car, wonder why the setup/balance is all to cock and have no idea why because they're replaced so many bits in one go.

Given that their CEO has today contradicted what binotto said yesterday I do have to wonder how ready these upgrades are. And yes, change one thing at once, review and then move on..

What does it matter anyway though? The big roadblock for Ferrari is clearly power, and that's the one thing they can't do anything about this year. I suppose technically a near perfect aero solution could lead to a somewhat underpowered car being competitive but... Are Ferrari that hot on aero? They don't seem to have been since we entered an aero era of the sport.

For once Ferrari being out of contention won't mean no good racing at the top at least - there are plenty of teams in that mix. Two years of Ferrari floundering, and then we enter a budget limited ground effect era. That probably won't suit them either

[DanielSan]

If the aero is as cocked as it seems to be then having to bolt on a load of extra downforce and just accepting the drag as a result will be the bigger issue. All the Ferrari cars being slow in the speed traps isn't exactly a shock given the Alfa and the Haas haven't been developed also. The Ferrari donkey may well bit a bit down on power now they definitely aren't cheating, but even if it's 30bhp down that's not enough to be losing 0.7 down a straight on this circuit. Thr engine being down on power if it even is, is the least of their problems in any of those 3 teams.

[Scrump]

Piginapoke said:

Mods, can you alter title to Austrian and Styrian Grand Prix. Cheers.

[kambites]

HustleRussell said:

Red Bull could be a match for Mercedes on race pace at most circuits.

I'm intereted in your logic for that one. As far as I could see Redbull were nowhere near Mercedes on race pace last weekend - the Mercs were running wounded and without the safety cars would still have been about half a lap down the road by the end of the race.

[Derek Smith]

TheDeuce said:

DanielSan said:

I can already see it now, bolt a whole st load of parts onto the car, wonder why the setup/balance is all to cock and have no idea why because they're replaced so many bits in one go.

Given that their CEO has today contradicted what binotto said yesterday I do have to wonder how ready these upgrades are. And yes, change one thing at once, review and then move on..

What does it matter anyway though? The big roadblock for Ferrari is clearly power, and that's the one thing they can't do anything about this year. I suppose technically a near perfect aero solution could lead to a somewhat underpowered car being competitive but... Are Ferrari that hot on aero? They don't seem to have been since we entered an aero era of the sport.

For once Ferrari being out of contention won't mean no good racing at the top at least - there are plenty of teams in that mix. Two years of Ferrari floundering, and then we enter a budget limited ground effect era. That probably won't suit them either

If Binotto is being contradicted publicly then one has to think that one of the upgrades being considered is sacking him.

[MiniMan64]

Why does the second race need a different name? Is it a legal thing?

What second names are the other double headers getting? Are we getting a British and an English GP?

[Piginapoke]

Derek Smith said:

TheDeuce said:

DanielSan said:

I can already see it now, bolt a whole st load of parts onto the car, wonder why the setup/balance is all to cock and have no idea why because they're replaced so many bits in one go.

Given that their CEO has today contradicted what binotto said yesterday I do have to wonder how ready these upgrades are. And yes, change one thing at once, review and then move on..

What does it matter anyway though? The big roadblock for Ferrari is clearly power, and that's the one thing they can't do anything about this year. I suppose technically a near perfect aero solution could lead to a somewhat underpowered car being competitive but... Are Ferrari that hot on aero? They don't seem to have been since we entered an aero era of the sport.

For once Ferrari being out of contention won't mean no good racing at the top at least - there are plenty of teams in that mix. Two years of Ferrari floundering, and then we enter a budget limited ground effect era. That probably won't suit them either

If Binotto is being contradicted publicly then one has to think that one of the upgrades being considered is sacking him.

I can't think they would fire Binotto. He's sorted out the driver salary bill at the same time as delivering an upgrade in driving talent (sorry Vettel fans) and the culture is much more open compared to previously. He doesn't design the car!

I think if you have upgrades to use, you should use them in the second double header weekend- it's a brilliant back to back test if nothing else, and with testing so limited its a no brainer to bring them forward.

[Piginapoke]

MiniMan64 said:

Why does the second race need a different name? Is it a legal thing?

What second names are the other double headers getting? Are we getting a British and an English GP?

I think it's to avoid confusion- ie who won the British GP in 2020? Which one? etc.

The 2nd British GP is called the 70th Anniversary GP. I presume 70 years of GP racing?

[Nampahc Niloc]

Piginapoke said:

MiniMan64 said:

Why does the second race need a different name? Is it a legal thing?

What second names are the other double headers getting? Are we getting a British and an English GP?

I think it's to avoid confusion- ie who won the British GP in 2020? Which one? etc.

The 2nd British GP is called the 70th Anniversary GP. I presume 70 years of GP racing?

To be picky it’s 70 Years of the F1 world championship.

With regards to the different names I think it’s to do with it being the “Grand Prix”. It’s not exactly the “Grand Prize” if there’s another one in the same year, never mind just one week later. Take for example the old San Marino or European Grand Prix days. 2 races in the same country but given different names.

Edit: Typo

[kambites]

I wonder if they've designed new trophies for the extra races.

[HTP99]

Is it just me who sees the name of the next GP and says to myself, "Syrian GP, WTF?!"

[TheDeuce]

Piginapoke said:

I can't think they would fire Binotto. He's sorted out the driver salary bill at the same time as delivering an upgrade in driving talent (sorry Vettel fans) and the culture is much more open compared to previously. He doesn't design the car!

I think if you have upgrades to use, you should use them in the second double header weekend- it's a brilliant back to back test if nothing else, and with testing so limited its a no brainer to bring them forward.

Identifying seb being in a viscous circle of self defeat and pointing to the door was probably a sensible move. He can't really take credit for LeClerc though, Arrivabene signed him.

He is responsible for making sure the car is designed to be competitive. That doesn't mean he has to be involved or even understand the car.. but he has to make sure the right people to deliver the result are on the job and getting strong results. And ideally, not cheating... As it is, it's looking the team are stuck this year and next with a car designed around power that in a cheat free world they can no longer have, and doesn't seem to adapt well to being a strong aero performer in order to offset the power drop. Let's see what Sunday brings with the new upgrades - I guess it's possible they'll work a miracle.

Toto has been uncharacteristically vocal about Binotto too: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.essentiallysports...

[Nampahc Niloc]

kambites said:

I wonder if they've designed new trophies for the extra races.

I hope so. I can’t help but remember the old Santander years when almost all the trophies were just the Santander logo. I always thought how disappointing they must look in a trophy cabinet compared to a trophy that is unique to the Grand Prix.

[ajprice]

ash73 said:

ajprice said:

1:07.475. Exactly the same lap time as Verstappen's 2019 fastest lap.

Why are they no faster this year? Did they change the regs?

Ok, a 2020 McLaren is as fast as a 2019 Red Bull. By the end of the race when the lap was set, both Red Bulls were out and both Mercedes were nursing their cars. If they were in the race with no issues, they may have been faster than Lando.

[TheDeuce]

DanielSan said:

If the aero is as cocked as it seems to be then having to bolt on a load of extra downforce and just accepting the drag as a result will be the bigger issue. All the Ferrari cars being slow in the speed traps isn't exactly a shock given the Alfa and the Haas haven't been developed also. The Ferrari donkey may well bit a bit down on power now they definitely aren't cheating, but even if it's 30bhp down that's not enough to be losing 0.7 down a straight on this circuit. Thr engine being down on power if it even is, is the least of their problems in any of those 3 teams.

I think some of that is a bit back to front. All Ferrari cars are slower than last year, so the power drop is at least that significant. The Ferrari itself has lost the most pace - they have developed the car most since last year, but it hasn't worked - by attempting to enhance downforce to improve cornering speed, they have ended up with a draggy car. The new updates are designed no doubt to retain the cornering downforce whilst remove some of the excess drag.

The problem is that the underlying car was designed ground up to be relatively low downforce and slippery. Without the power that doesn't make much sense anymore, and the original cars design philosophy will also limit how effective their new aero development can be.

They could of course just revert the car 2019 and then it would just be the 2019 car with whatever amount less horsepower.. but in championship terms that simply isn't good enough. They have to try and find new ways of improving overall performance - even if it doesn't prove fruitful.

[Derek Smith]

TheDeuce said:

Piginapoke said:

I can't think they would fire Binotto. He's sorted out the driver salary bill at the same time as delivering an upgrade in driving talent (sorry Vettel fans) and the culture is much more open compared to previously. He doesn't design the car!

I think if you have upgrades to use, you should use them in the second double header weekend- it's a brilliant back to back test if nothing else, and with testing so limited its a no brainer to bring them forward.

Identifying seb being in a viscous circle of self defeat and pointing to the door was probably a sensible move. He can't really take credit for LeClerc though, Arrivabene signed him.

He is responsible for making sure the car is designed to be competitive. That doesn't mean he has to be involved or even understand the car.. but he has to make sure the right people to deliver the result are on the job and getting strong results. And ideally, not cheating... As it is, it's looking the team are stuck this year and next with a car designed around power that in a cheat free world they can no longer have, and doesn't seem to adapt well to being a strong aero performer in order to offset the power drop. Let's see what Sunday brings with the new upgrades - I guess it's possible they'll work a miracle.

Toto has been uncharacteristically vocal about Binotto too: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.essentiallysports...

There was a reaction by the Tifosi to the sacking of Vettel and also by its manner.

I'm not too sure what Wolff meant by "I would like to cheer up everyone at Ferrari, because they are a fantastic company with fantastic people. But I have no reason to cheer up Mattia." When there was a discussion of the Ferrari engine 'problems' of last season he said something like 'this is about the way the team's managed.'

There were rumours of LH and TW going to Ferrari next season, although who might be taking whom isn't too clear. It seems to be getting a bit nasty, and comments suggesting the 'team' is great, but Binotto isn't are given for a reason. I wonder what this reason is.

Binotto's under pressure. I used to have a mate in Milan who sent me newspaper reports on Ferrari's performance after each race. Some ran to five pages. I wonder if this level of coverage continues. If so, then they, the media, were a significant voice to the company.

[Piginapoke]

HTP99 said:

Is it just me who sees the name of the next GP and says to myself, "Syrian GP, WTF?!"

It reminded me of this- The Sylvanian Grand Prix

[glazbagun]

HTP99 said:

Is it just me who sees the name of the next GP and says to myself, "Syrian GP, WTF?!"

I thought it was a bad anagram of Austrian and they were going to run the course in reverse.

[kambites]

Stryia is the region of Austria the GP is held in, isn't it?

So it's a bit like calling the second Silverstone race the "English Grand Prix".

[SturdyHSV]

TheDeuce said:

Two years of Ferrari floundering, and then we enter a budget limited ground effect era. That probably won't suit them either

It's OK, the budget cap won't apply to Ferrari as they have no way of accounting for what they spend on F1, so they should have an opportunity to be competitive again