Official 2020 Austrian & Styrian Grand Prix Thread *Spoilers
Discussion
Piginapoke said:
Derek Smith said:
The problem for Albon is that not only does he have to put pressure on Verstappen, but the team as well. They have too much invested in Verstappen to see him beaten by one of their own.
On the other hand, most other drivers have to beat their teammate (apart from Stroll....). Albon just needs to get close, in a Bottas/Hamilton way, and the team will be happy.Personally, I think he'll do OK, he's made of the right stuff.
Max is a former mercedes junior, he could find himself in no mans land like Vettel, big salary & big per points bonuses.. really needs to perform this year.. and 3rd in the WDC might not cut it.
Deesee said:
Albon has ‘the’ junior pedigree, and is IMO competent for a top drive.. and had had the Thai backing for a little while now, so let’s say he’s in the right place.
Max is a former mercedes junior, he could find himself in no mans land like Vettel, big salary & big per points bonuses.. really needs to perform this year.. and 3rd in the WDC might not cut it.
If the Mercedes is tangibly superior to the Red Bull, then surely Max wouldn't be judged for coming 3rd? He was 3rd last year and arguably got more than was expected out of the car = he did as good as anyone else could be imagined to have done..?Max is a former mercedes junior, he could find himself in no mans land like Vettel, big salary & big per points bonuses.. really needs to perform this year.. and 3rd in the WDC might not cut it.
TheDeuce said:
Deesee said:
Albon has ‘the’ junior pedigree, and is IMO competent for a top drive.. and had had the Thai backing for a little while now, so let’s say he’s in the right place.
Max is a former mercedes junior, he could find himself in no mans land like Vettel, big salary & big per points bonuses.. really needs to perform this year.. and 3rd in the WDC might not cut it.
If the Mercedes is tangibly superior to the Red Bull, then surely Max wouldn't be judged for coming 3rd? He was 3rd last year and arguably got more than was expected out of the car = he did as good as anyone else could be imagined to have done..?Max is a former mercedes junior, he could find himself in no mans land like Vettel, big salary & big per points bonuses.. really needs to perform this year.. and 3rd in the WDC might not cut it.
He’s on A WDC Winner salary let alone the Kimi at lotus bonuses, Dani Ric (Equal to max?) has had a haircut on pay for example, Grosjean has a more impressive start to his career in I would say a lesser car.
Let’s be fair, there’s what 4/5 drivers with more GP experience than him on the grid.. He’s no young rookie anymore.
I’ll play devil’s advocate here, should we expect more from him or has the car flattered him?
Deesee said:
Ok, perhaps he could drag a Williams into 15th..16th
He’s on A WDC Winner salary let alone the Kimi at lotus bonuses, Dani Ric (Equal to max?) has had a haircut on pay for example, Grosjean has a more impressive start to his career in I would say a lesser car.
Let’s be fair, there’s what 4/5 drivers with more GP experience than him on the grid.. He’s no young rookie anymore.
I’ll play devil’s advocate here, should we expect more from him or has the car flattered him?
For the sake of a balanced and reasonable summation... I reckon that last season, on circuits where the car was capable of a podium, he was about 90-95% as good as any driver can drive the car they're given - last 5-10% of ultimate mechanical performance is both difficult and risky to routinely extract. There is always a little more that is in theory possible and occasionally a driver gets an insanely good self propelled result.. But through the course of the 2019 season I doubt anyone else could have done more overall.He’s on A WDC Winner salary let alone the Kimi at lotus bonuses, Dani Ric (Equal to max?) has had a haircut on pay for example, Grosjean has a more impressive start to his career in I would say a lesser car.
Let’s be fair, there’s what 4/5 drivers with more GP experience than him on the grid.. He’s no young rookie anymore.
I’ll play devil’s advocate here, should we expect more from him or has the car flattered him?
I'd say the car got better throughout the season and he evolved with it and complimented it - I don't think there was flattery in either direction. If the car is better yet this season, I think he will maximise (no pun..) it once again.
There remains with Max a risk that he could lose his cool and do something stupid, resulting in a wasted race. I think that is balanced by the fact that the following race he could do something equally bonkers, pull it off due to talent defeating stupidity and claim a result most others wouldn't have had in the same situation.
Regards his salary, remember to account for his value in both sponsorship terms and to the Red Bull brand! If you transported me 10 years in to the future, I wouldn't be surprised if Wikipedia told me he never achieved a world title. I also wouldn't be surprised if it told me he'd had a couple. I doubt he'll ever be a significant multiple (4+) champion though.
Deesee said:
He’s on A WDC Winner salary.
I’ll play devil’s advocate here, should we expect more from Max or has the car flattered him?
I think the opposite's true, Max flattered the car.I’ll play devil’s advocate here, should we expect more from Max or has the car flattered him?
He finished 3rd in the championship ahead of both Ferrari's, scored 278 points to Albon's 92 and won 3 races in a car that was definitely inferior to the Mercedes.
If Honda and Red Bull put together a car at least the equal of Lewis's I believe Max will be quicker.
I’m just not sure VER has that one lap perfection yet, not that I don’t think he’ll get there in the right car.
Hamilton (like SCH before him) does perfection so regularly it makes everyone else look ordinary, he rarely has bad weekends-maybe a bad session, loses pole by a fraction but he always does something else to bring it back.
VER is an out and out racer, like HAM used to be as it happens.
I think VER losing a championship battle will be the making of him.
Hamilton (like SCH before him) does perfection so regularly it makes everyone else look ordinary, he rarely has bad weekends-maybe a bad session, loses pole by a fraction but he always does something else to bring it back.
VER is an out and out racer, like HAM used to be as it happens.
I think VER losing a championship battle will be the making of him.
cheddar said:
I think the opposite's true, Max flattered the car.
He finished 3rd in the championship ahead of both Ferrari's, scored 278 points to Albon's 92 and won 3 races in a car that was definitely inferior to the Mercedes.
If Honda and Red Bull put together a car at least the equal of Lewis's I believe Max will be quicker.
Albon was only in the car for 9 races, hardly a fair comparison.He finished 3rd in the championship ahead of both Ferrari's, scored 278 points to Albon's 92 and won 3 races in a car that was definitely inferior to the Mercedes.
If Honda and Red Bull put together a car at least the equal of Lewis's I believe Max will be quicker.
Deesee said:
Piginapoke said:
Derek Smith said:
The problem for Albon is that not only does he have to put pressure on Verstappen, but the team as well. They have too much invested in Verstappen to see him beaten by one of their own.
On the other hand, most other drivers have to beat their teammate (apart from Stroll....). Albon just needs to get close, in a Bottas/Hamilton way, and the team will be happy.Personally, I think he'll do OK, he's made of the right stuff.
Max is a former mercedes junior, he could find himself in no mans land like Vettel, big salary & big per points bonuses.. really needs to perform this year.. and 3rd in the WDC might not cut it.
t these past years no doubt. And Max isn't a former Mercedes junior.
And Vettel is 32, Max is 22, Albon, you know the one with the junior pedigree, is 24.
wevster said:
cheddar said:
I think the opposite's true, Max flattered the car.
He finished 3rd in the championship ahead of both Ferrari's, scored 278 points to Albon's 92 and won 3 races in a car that was definitely inferior to the Mercedes.
If Honda and Red Bull put together a car at least the equal of Lewis's I believe Max will be quicker.
Albon was only in the car for 9 races, hardly a fair comparison.He finished 3rd in the championship ahead of both Ferrari's, scored 278 points to Albon's 92 and won 3 races in a car that was definitely inferior to the Mercedes.
If Honda and Red Bull put together a car at least the equal of Lewis's I believe Max will be quicker.
Yes, I know I'm bigging the guy up but Im fully prepared for an eggy face come Sunday if he doesn't deliver.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
I’m just not sure VER has that one lap perfection yet, not that I don’t think he’ll get there in the right car.
Hamilton (like SCH before him) does perfection so regularly it makes everyone else look ordinary, he rarely has bad weekends-maybe a bad session, loses pole by a fraction but he always does something else to bring it back.
VER is an out and out racer, like HAM used to be as it happens.
I think VER losing a championship battle will be the making of him.
Lewis can do perfection indeed. I think Monaco last year and Singapore in 2018 were the best recent examples. In Monaco he lost the back end and STILL found the best time. Hamilton (like SCH before him) does perfection so regularly it makes everyone else look ordinary, he rarely has bad weekends-maybe a bad session, loses pole by a fraction but he always does something else to bring it back.
VER is an out and out racer, like HAM used to be as it happens.
I think VER losing a championship battle will be the making of him.
Here it is, well worth another watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ej8n56fkgWY
And they say the drivers don't have to wrestle the car anymore! That car was dancing.
Max is fantastic, he will take titles so long as he remains on course. But I seriously doubt he could achieve near perfection as often as Lewis has.
We’ll see I guess, a heck of a lot of people used to say that about HAM though too.
And Albon
The only F1 driver with a parent to rival Max’s for odiousness! Seems like a nice lad, speaks with a plumby English accent so will appeal to some but is formula e talent level, where he was destined until the Helmut schooling method meant they ran out of drivers with a super license.
He’s in a proven race winning car, in a team that lets their drivers fight and win. Anything else is failure.
And Albon
The only F1 driver with a parent to rival Max’s for odiousness! Seems like a nice lad, speaks with a plumby English accent so will appeal to some but is formula e talent level, where he was destined until the Helmut schooling method meant they ran out of drivers with a super license.He’s in a proven race winning car, in a team that lets their drivers fight and win. Anything else is failure.
JonChalk said:
df76 said:
F3 cars on a very wet track, the weekend in go! A healthy grid of 30 cars in f3.
Even F3 practice is exciting right now! (not being particularly sarcastic - probably would have been watching / half-watching it any other race / year as well).LaurasOtherHalf said:
And Albon The only F1 driver with a parent to rival Max’s for odiousness! Seems like a nice lad, speaks with a plumby English accent so will appeal to some but is formula e talent level, where he was destined until the Helmut schooling method meant they ran out of drivers with a super license.
He’s in a proven race winning car, in a team that lets their drivers fight and win. Anything else is failure.
The talent rotation at Red Bull makes me wonder what they want from their second (I won't say No2) driver.. DR was far closer to Max results-wise, in my view as a talent he was on a par in fact. Yet they let him go - they could have made it worthwhile and supported him in staying. The only F1 driver with a parent to rival Max’s for odiousness! Seems like a nice lad, speaks with a plumby English accent so will appeal to some but is formula e talent level, where he was destined until the Helmut schooling method meant they ran out of drivers with a super license.He’s in a proven race winning car, in a team that lets their drivers fight and win. Anything else is failure.
Anyway, I only bring DR up as an example of how competitive compared to Gasly or Albon. People do say good things about Albon, but I have to agree with you, I don't think he has the required level of attack of natural speed. DR has won races and been familiar on the podium since day one! And without the stupid number of mechanical DNF's during his RB stint, there would plainly have been a lot more podium time.
I feel if Albon wins a race people will fall over with shock and be AMAZED that a team mate of Max's could ever achieve such a feat - but DR had 18 podiums and 4 wins alongside Max across 3 years (despite almost as many DNF's).
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