Official 2020 Austrian & Styrian Grand Prix Thread *Spoilers

[V8 Stang]

Disappointing the free practice sessions are not being repeated this evening like usual??

Finally some new F1 content and they are playing old races from the 90's!!

[TheDeuce]

vulture1 said:

ajprice said:

Other than Mercedes, it looks pretty close so far between the teams, with a midfield group for the other points and a tail end group going after points if and when they can.

Mercedes
...
Red Bull
Ferrari
Racing Point
McLaren
Renault
...
Alpha Tauri
Alfa Romeo
HAAS
Williams

Here was my prediction from Australia

slipstream 1985 said:

my early prediction

1. mercedes
2. red bull

3. ferrari
4. tracing point

5. mclaren

6. renault
7. alpha tauri
8. alfa romeo

9. haas
10.williams

Gaps represent who they will likely be closest to.

link here for proof lol https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

Ok... hold off tugging it too hard until we get through quali at least

But fair play, good predictions so far!!

[Derek Smith]

No one seems to know what it is for.

The one I favour is warming the front tyres, but, of course, I have nothing to support it, apart from Merc's problems with tyre temperatures last season. They could modify the aero to put some heat in, but there's always a cost. If, and I know it is guesswork, if they can reduce aero and still get temperature into the tyres, then it's got to be a plus.

Mind you, it's my idea but there's no way I'd put any money on it.

[kambites]

Derek Smith said:

No one seems to know what it is for.

I think we know exactly what it's for - to change the toe angle. We also know what that is useful for - lots of different things. It's quite possible that none of those things on their own would make the system worthwhile but that combined they do; it doesn't have to have "just one purpose".

[vulture1]

kambites said:

Derek Smith said:

No one seems to know what it is for.

I think we know exactly what it's for - to change the toe angle. We also know what that is useful for - lots of different things. It's quite possible that none of those things on their own would make the system worthwhile but that combined they do; it doesn't have to have "just one purpose".

I recon front tyre life will be great improved with this,

[Dermot O'Logical]

I managed to listen to Paul di Resta for a few minutes without lapsing into a coma, and he was saying that no constructor is going to develop something which weighs a lot (relatively) and sits high in the tub, thereby affecting the centre of gravity if it doesn't have some worthwhile effect on performance.

[A205GTI]

RB claim they have a system ready to go but want clarification from stewards, However FIA have accepted its use for this year, so would be surprised if it is overuled.

Not sure what they are protesting but someone seems to think RB may claim it is an aerodynamic feature and therefore has to be fixed?

However sour grapes by RB, and why protest it now. Agree with Toto not good look for the sport especially at the first race.

I guess Horner trying to get them disqualified as he most know they cannot compete at the moment

[Clockwork Cupcake]

A205GTI said:

Not sure what they are protesting but someone seems to think RB may claim it is an aerodynamic feature

What, kind of like a Blown Diffuser was?

[TheDeuce]

Deesee said:

TheDeuce said:

I still think the true (or at least main) benefit is removing toe on the straights - it's only going to give a TINY speed increase but a fairly significant reduction in tyre scrubbing. I appreciate the concern about weight but if they can extend the tyre life, that brings race altering benefits.

In addition to the opposite option of using the system to increase tyre scrub and heat when required.

Surely it's an accepted fact that toe angle in motorsport is always a compromise, and this system removes that compromise..

To be fair I think that’s the general assumption, and I’m sure you did a pretty conclusive summary in the testing thread.

However when Chandock asked Davidson (Merc Sim driver) If that was what DAS does today, I got a different impression by Ant Davidson’s reaction.. the smirk and silence..

Valtteri was using it in the turns today, which we did not see in testing, which could help with temps.

No that makes sense too. Toe is great for turns, that's why race cars employ toe by default, to varying degrees. This system should allow the ideal toe angle for each turn, and then also remove toe in the straights. Although we don't know quite how variable it is, there may be set 'locking' points for safety reasons.

It's essentially the equivalent for pausing the lap at each section and adjusting the front end to perfectly deal with that section, then pausing again and another adjustment for the next...

I think the sky guys want a super simple "it does this" explanation and that's never gonna happen, hence the smirk. But I'd like to think anyone can understand that a variable toe angle is more useful and efficient than a fixed one... In the same way a car throttle is more useful as a variable device than a simple stop/go switch

[DanielSan]

A205GTI said:

RB claim they have a system ready to go but want clarification from stewards, However FIA have accepted its use for this year, so would be surprised if it is overuled.

Not sure what they are protesting but someone seems to think RB may claim it is an aerodynamic feature and therefore has to be fixed?

However sour grapes by RB, and why protest it now. Agree with Toto not good look for the sport especially at the first race.

I guess Horner trying to get them disqualified as he most know they cannot compete at the moment

They haven't been able to protest it until now, until the cars touch the track on a GP weekend with the the system in use a protest can't be launched. Toto is just trying to deflect by saying it's not goos for the sport.

If RB do have a system ready to go then it's in there interests to put in a protest and seek the official clarification on what they can/can't do with the system. It's been going on for years with various different things. It's rare for anything to receive and instant ban so Merc will be free to use it this year regardless. Same as the fric system or whatever it was called.

[Rat_Fink_67]

I'm still trying to figure out where Red Bull are going with their protest, it's already been assessed and approved by the FIA for use this season. I get the "moveable aerodynamic device" angle, but surely anyone can see that adjustable toe falls in to the realm of steering and not suspension. If adjusting the angle of front toe via the steering wheel becomes outlawed this weekend, then nobody will be able to go around a corner?!

[TheDeuce]

DanielSan said:

They haven't been able to protest it until now, until the cars touch the track on a GP weekend with the the system in use a protest can't be launched. Toto is just trying to deflect by saying it's not goos for the sport.

If RB do have a system ready to go then it's in there interests to put in a protest and seek the official clarification on what they can/can't do with the system. It's been going on for years with various different things. It's rare for anything to receive and instant ban so Merc will be free to use it this year regardless. Same as the fric system or whatever it was called.

That's the way I see it. No drama, just process. I'm sure Horner is as convinced as Toto that it's legal - why else would Toto be running it!? It's just clarification, to tick a box. And allow RB to run it if they wish.

[TheDeuce]

Rat_Fink_67 said:

I'm still trying to figure out where Red Bull are going with their protest, it's already been assessed and approved by the FIA for use this season. I get the "moveable aerodynamic device" angle, but surely anyone can see that adjustable toe falls in to the realm of steering and not suspension. If adjusting the angle of front toe via the steering wheel becomes outlawed this weekend, then nobody will be able to go around a corner?!

Their system will be mildly different to mercs. Their protest will be based on how their own system will work, under the guise of how they 'think' Mercedes system is working. By making it a protest FIA have to deal with it straight away. If they simply handed over their own plans, FIA would take longer than they wished to review and decide.

Assuming red bull are planning to more or less do the same as Mercedes, FIA will be able to turn it around very quickly as they have already said yes to Mercedes.

This isn't really a protest.. it's a formality to ensure red bull can join the party.

[Rat_Fink_67]

TheDeuce said:

Their system will be mildly different to mercs. Their protest will be based on how their own system will work, under the guise of how they 'think' Mercedes system is working. By making it a protest FIA have to deal with it straight away. If they simply handed over their own plans, FIA would take longer as they wished to review and decide.

Assuming red bull are planning to more or less the same as Mercedes, FIA will be able to turn it around very quickly as they have already said yes to Mercedes.

This isn't really a protest.. it's a formality to ensure red bull can join the party.

Yeah that makes sense, although by all accounts it seems a very difficult system to "retrofit" in to an existing design/tub, especially for one year. In light of what seems like a bit of an aero issue on the Red Bull, you'd think that's where their priority would rest.

[Leithen]

I wouldn't bet against Newey having umpteen variations on the principle up his sleeve.

[TonyToniTone]

DanielSan said:

It's rare for anything to receive and instant ban so Merc will be free to use it this year regardless. Same as the fric system or whatever it was called.

FRIC was banned mid season.

[TheDeuce]

Rat_Fink_67 said:

Yeah that makes sense, although by all accounts it seems a very difficult system to "retrofit" in to an existing design/tub, especially for one year. In light of what seems like a bit of an aero issue on the Red Bull, you'd think that's where their priority would rest.

Retrofit might be a stretch, the entire frontend would have needed a redesign. But RB are funded to make that happen and they've had since Barcelona to instigate that process - looks like they did. Obviously the world has changed since then, in addition to the spin happy nature of their car revealed today.. but if they've already developed their own version of DAS as an option, they might as well complete that effort by double checking it's legality whilst also focussing on the current challenges of their F1 endeavours.

I think Red Bull are expecting and hoping their protest will fail. If it does, they will have their own DAS equivalent - assuming it actually works for them.

[anonymous-user]

Red Bull have not said they have a DAS system ready.
Horner refused to say they haven't got one.

If they had one, it would be on the car now.

[anonymous-user]

DAS is something you can implement just by changing the steering rack assembly, it doesn't need a complete front end redesign.
The tricky thing will be the packaging requirements to mount the new rack assembly, plus any control system feed, be that motors or hydraulics.

[PanicBuyingBogRoll]

Deesee said:

kambites said:

Deesee said:

The protest is in..

At least it's gone in before the race then. The cynical part of me thiught they'd wait to see the result before protesting.

Mercedes now at least have the option to just not run it this weekend until the clarification has been given. They're probably miles ahead without it anyway.

Think of the weight saving without it.. and the ballast in the middle of the car on the floor.. I’m not sure we know the real reason for it, other than perhaps a red herring.

I was thinking it might be a red herring. Maybe the steering wheel just moves out and in.

Redbull and Ferrari may have just spent months of development time on their own system for nothing.