Black Mercedes.

[TheDeuce]

rscott said:

LucyP said:

Kraken: I suggest you look at these parts of their website then:

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/
https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-matters-2020/

And when you have, no doubt you will wonder what a multi-billion £ car operation, run by predominantly white males that spends £100s of millions on a F1 team, run similarly by white males, that pays their lead driver £10s of millions per year, (who is based in Monaco with it's usual tax benefits), and is sponsored by a state oil company and a swiss bank has in common with those aims!

Mercedes have not said they're endorsing or supporting BLM, only that they've pledged to work to improve the diversity of their team.and the car being black is a "clear statement that we stand against racism and all forms of discrimination." . Seems an eminently sensible approach - support the movement's aim to tackle racism and discrimination without endorsing or even mentioning some of the other aims of BLM .

https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/en/news/2020/06/silv...

Sky took a similar stand - clear statement that they're working to improve BAME representation at all levels and will use their platform to highlight racial injustice, but not endorsing or supporting the specific aims of BLM. https://www.skygroup.sky/en-gb/article/sky-commits...

Quite. As this movement progresses, it won't remain a BLM driven affair, I actually expect they'll fall from popular favour fairly quickly and can even see the potential for them to get more radical and hard lined in order to maintain relevance. There are certainly some aspects of their campaign that many of their high profile initial supporters will have to think twice about now people are taking a proper look at what they stand for.

Long term I think initiatives such as Mercedes, which seek knowledge and understanding ahead of 'demanding change', will provide the best long term improvements. Mercedes might have been prompted in to action by BLM news and social pressure, but their solution is their own, and it appears entirely laudable.

[rscott]

sparta6 said:

rscott said:

LucyP said:

Kraken: I suggest you look at these parts of their website then:

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/
https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-matters-2020/

And when you have, no doubt you will wonder what a multi-billion £ car operation, run by predominantly white males that spends £100s of millions on a F1 team, run similarly by white males, that pays their lead driver £10s of millions per year, (who is based in Monaco with it's usual tax benefits), and is sponsored by a state oil company and a swiss bank has in common with those aims!

Mercedes have not said they're endorsing or supporting BLM, only that they've pledged to work to improve the diversity of their team.and the car being black is a "clear statement that we stand against racism and all forms of discrimination." . Seems an eminently sensible approach - support the movement's aim to tackle racism and discrimination without endorsing or even mentioning some of the other aims of BLM .

https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/en/news/2020/06/silv...

Sky took a similar stand - clear statement that they're working to improve BAME representation at all levels and will use their platform to highlight racial injustice, but not endorsing or supporting the specific aims of BLM. https://www.skygroup.sky/en-gb/article/sky-commits...

Do we believe that Mercedes would be doing this if Hamilton was driving for Ferrari ?

Probably not. But is it a bad thing that they've listened to the concerns of Hamilton and reacted accordingly, while also staying out of the more political aspects of the BLM organisation's agenda?

[sparta6]

rscott said:

sparta6 said:

rscott said:

LucyP said:

Kraken: I suggest you look at these parts of their website then:

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/
https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-matters-2020/

And when you have, no doubt you will wonder what a multi-billion £ car operation, run by predominantly white males that spends £100s of millions on a F1 team, run similarly by white males, that pays their lead driver £10s of millions per year, (who is based in Monaco with it's usual tax benefits), and is sponsored by a state oil company and a swiss bank has in common with those aims!

Mercedes have not said they're endorsing or supporting BLM, only that they've pledged to work to improve the diversity of their team.and the car being black is a "clear statement that we stand against racism and all forms of discrimination." . Seems an eminently sensible approach - support the movement's aim to tackle racism and discrimination without endorsing or even mentioning some of the other aims of BLM .

https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/en/news/2020/06/silv...

Sky took a similar stand - clear statement that they're working to improve BAME representation at all levels and will use their platform to highlight racial injustice, but not endorsing or supporting the specific aims of BLM. https://www.skygroup.sky/en-gb/article/sky-commits...

Do we believe that Mercedes would be doing this if Hamilton was driving for Ferrari ?

Probably not. But is it a bad thing that they've listened to the concerns of Hamilton and reacted accordingly, while also staying out of the more political aspects of the BLM organisation's agenda?

But where does it end ?

Changing the pink cars for Perez due to the injustice for Mexicans ?

[Exige77]

sparta6 said:

But where does it end ?

Changing the pink cars for Perez due to the injustices of Mexicans ?

It’s a slippery slope. Once you get involved in politics you start to get judged.

It’s not a good thing when you want to appeal to as many customers as possible.

[Kraken]

LucyP said:

Kraken: I suggest you look at these parts of their website then:

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/
https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-matters-2020/

And when you have, no doubt you will wonder what a multi-billion £ car operation, run by predominantly white males that spends £100s of millions on a F1 team, run similarly by white males, that pays their lead driver £10s of millions per year, (who is based in Monaco with it's usual tax benefits), and is sponsored by a state oil company and a swiss bank has in common with those aims!

Yes I did read those, like I said I looked at the official website. When did I say anything about Mercedes?

[rscott]

Exige77 said:

sparta6 said:

But where does it end ?

Changing the pink cars for Perez due to the injustices of Mexicans ?

It’s a slippery slope. Once you get involved in politics you start to get judged.

It’s not a good thing when you want to appeal to as many customers as possible.

Probably why Mercedes have avoided direct support for BLM and instead made the clear statements about fighting against racism and discrimination, plus also looking at their recruitment processes to ensure they attract the best people from across the broadest possible talent pool.

I don't see those as particularly political statements? Had they run with 'Black Lives Matter' on the cars, then that would be a more political gesture.

[Exige77]

rscott said:

Exige77 said:

sparta6 said:

But where does it end ?

Changing the pink cars for Perez due to the injustices of Mexicans ?

It’s a slippery slope. Once you get involved in politics you start to get judged.

It’s not a good thing when you want to appeal to as many customers as possible.

Probably why Mercedes have avoided direct support for BLM and instead made the clear statements about fighting against racism and discrimination, plus also looking at their recruitment processes to ensure they attract the best people from across the broadest possible talent pool.

I don't see those as particularly political statements? Had they run with 'Black Lives Matter' on the cars, then that would be a more political gesture.

Why paint their cars black ?

Why not White ?

Or another colour ?

There is a clear connection there.

It’s their choice of course but I can see potential customers for their cars seeing it as supporting a particular currently popular movement.

That might be good for sales or not.

Remember, this is all about selling cars.

[PanicBuyingBogRoll]

sparta6 said:

rscott said:

sparta6 said:

rscott said:

LucyP said:

Kraken: I suggest you look at these parts of their website then:

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/
https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-matters-2020/

And when you have, no doubt you will wonder what a multi-billion £ car operation, run by predominantly white males that spends £100s of millions on a F1 team, run similarly by white males, that pays their lead driver £10s of millions per year, (who is based in Monaco with it's usual tax benefits), and is sponsored by a state oil company and a swiss bank has in common with those aims!

Mercedes have not said they're endorsing or supporting BLM, only that they've pledged to work to improve the diversity of their team.and the car being black is a "clear statement that we stand against racism and all forms of discrimination." . Seems an eminently sensible approach - support the movement's aim to tackle racism and discrimination without endorsing or even mentioning some of the other aims of BLM .

https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/en/news/2020/06/silv...

Sky took a similar stand - clear statement that they're working to improve BAME representation at all levels and will use their platform to highlight racial injustice, but not endorsing or supporting the specific aims of BLM. https://www.skygroup.sky/en-gb/article/sky-commits...

Do we believe that Mercedes would be doing this if Hamilton was driving for Ferrari ?

Probably not. But is it a bad thing that they've listened to the concerns of Hamilton and reacted accordingly, while also staying out of the more political aspects of the BLM organisation's agenda?

But where does it end ?

Changing the pink cars for Perez due to the injustice for Mexicans ?

There is nothing to stop them doing just that.

[LucyP]

rscott said:

Probably why Mercedes have avoided direct support for BLM and instead made the clear statements about fighting against racism and discrimination, plus also looking at their recruitment processes to ensure they attract the best people from across the broadest possible talent pool.

I don't see those as particularly political statements? Had they run with 'Black Lives Matter' on the cars, then that would be a more political gesture.

You have missed the point. Painting the car black is a clear indication of support for BLM, just like people putting black circles on their Facebook pages. And if you are supporting the BLM movement, then you are supporting their Marxist politics too. You cannot separate one from the other. It has no place in F1.

[Kraken]

I really don't get why people are getting so upset about it. If you don't like it then don't buy a Mercedes or stop supporting the team.

[kiseca]

sparta6 said:

The difference is money flow direction.

As an employee we have a paymaster and it can sometimes cloud our judgement.

As a consumer we have freedom of choice and are unencumbered.

And consumers can buy a German product today precisely because of the freedom given to us by those Allied troops who sacrificied so much and to whom we are indebted.

And it's an insult to that sacrifice for you to keep pretending you really mean this just so you can pick on Lewis.

[TheDeuce]

LucyP said:

You have missed the point. Painting the car black is a clear indication of support for BLM, just like people putting black circles on their Facebook pages. And if you are supporting the BLM movement, then you are supporting their Marxist politics too. You cannot separate one from the other. It has no place in F1.

Give it a few weeks and I doubt such displays of support will still be assumed to be support of BLM.

[Exige77]

LucyP said:

You have missed the point. Painting the car black is a clear indication of support for BLM, just like people putting black circles on their Facebook pages. And if you are supporting the BLM movement, then you are supporting their Marxist politics too. You cannot separate one from the other. It has no place in F1.

^^^^^^Exactly this.

[Muzzer79]

sparta6 said:

rscott said:

sparta6 said:

rscott said:

LucyP said:

Kraken: I suggest you look at these parts of their website then:

https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/
https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-matters-2020/

And when you have, no doubt you will wonder what a multi-billion £ car operation, run by predominantly white males that spends £100s of millions on a F1 team, run similarly by white males, that pays their lead driver £10s of millions per year, (who is based in Monaco with it's usual tax benefits), and is sponsored by a state oil company and a swiss bank has in common with those aims!

Mercedes have not said they're endorsing or supporting BLM, only that they've pledged to work to improve the diversity of their team.and the car being black is a "clear statement that we stand against racism and all forms of discrimination." . Seems an eminently sensible approach - support the movement's aim to tackle racism and discrimination without endorsing or even mentioning some of the other aims of BLM .

https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/en/news/2020/06/silv...

Sky took a similar stand - clear statement that they're working to improve BAME representation at all levels and will use their platform to highlight racial injustice, but not endorsing or supporting the specific aims of BLM. https://www.skygroup.sky/en-gb/article/sky-commits...

Do we believe that Mercedes would be doing this if Hamilton was driving for Ferrari ?

Probably not. But is it a bad thing that they've listened to the concerns of Hamilton and reacted accordingly, while also staying out of the more political aspects of the BLM organisation's agenda?

But where does it end ?

Changing the pink cars for Perez due to the injustice for Mexicans ?

Would it be a problem if they did change the colour of Perez's car?

It's a paint scheme. If all the teams ran in colours to support causes of their choosing, I couldn't give two hoots - my enjoyment is derived from the racing, not what colour the car is.

Reading through some of the responses to this thread, I have to ask if people would be as outraged if the car was painted to support other causes.

If it was pink to support Breast Cancer Awareness, would that be an issue?

[sparta6]

kiseca said:

sparta6 said:

The difference is money flow direction.

As an employee we have a paymaster and it can sometimes cloud our judgement.

As a consumer we have freedom of choice and are unencumbered.

And consumers can buy a German product today precisely because of the freedom given to us by those Allied troops who sacrificied so much and to whom we are indebted.

And it's an insult to that sacrifice for you to keep pretending you really mean this just so you can pick on Lewis.

What are you on about ?

Away from the track Hamilton acts like a bellend.
He also craves relentless attention, and receives it. Even on PH.

[DanielSan]

BrettMRC said:

Some really odd comments on here.

If a move by anyone or any organisation to improve diversity and reduce inequality bothers you at any level then I think you need to go and do some studying and personal reflection.

It is right and proper that organisations and people with the biggest platforms should lead the way.

Also, the car looks great.

I'm not sure how F1 can be anymore diverse, this is the thing that baffles me, as a sport it travels around the world and embraces every country it goes to, even Bahrain and China with their stty human rights records. The grid either has or has had drivers from pretty much every nationality you can name who are white/latino/hispanic/Asian/mixed race, there's been female drivers in the past, arguably when the world was even more male dominated. Like wise with mechanics/engineers/designers and team principals in the paddock. Just because there isn't specifically more black people in the paddock doesn't mean the sport isn't diverse.

[rovermorris999]

In the spirit of virtue signalling I intend to paint myself black to show solidarity. What could possibly go wrong?

[kiseca]

sparta6 said:

kiseca said:

sparta6 said:

The difference is money flow direction.

As an employee we have a paymaster and it can sometimes cloud our judgement.

As a consumer we have freedom of choice and are unencumbered.

And consumers can buy a German product today precisely because of the freedom given to us by those Allied troops who sacrificied so much and to whom we are indebted.

And it's an insult to that sacrifice for you to keep pretending you really mean this just so you can pick on Lewis.

What are you on about ?

Away from the track Hamilton acts like a bellend.
He also craves relentless attention, and receives it. Even on PH.

What am I on about? That's simple to explain. I'm saying you're full of st.

Ironic that you'd say he acts like a bellend and he craves relentless attention, when you're constantly making every thread you can about what you think of Lewis and taking cheap shots at him.

Everyone on PH knows exactly what you think of him, but you keep reminding us. But yeah, he's the attention seeker....

I give up. I'd love to be able to browse through the Formula 1 forums on PH to keep up with F1 news but every second thread just becomes Sparta's Views On Lewis. It's like trying to watch TV with too many advert breaks, but it's always the same ads, and they're st.

Edited by kiseca on Tuesday 30th June 12:42

[LukeBrown66]

Am not sure this is a good idea, Hamilton has never really done much to promote race through the lower formula's that I know of, has kept stum about it most of his career, maybe the right stance.
But to do this now to me just seems like bandwagon jumping.

Safe to say the car will look better though silver is a little dull.

[HustleRussell]

sparta6 said:

The difference is money flow direction.

As an employee we have a paymaster and it can sometimes cloud our judgement.

As a consumer we have freedom of choice and are unencumbered.

And consumers can buy a German product today precisely because of the freedom given to us by those Allied troops who sacrificied so much and to whom we are indebted.

So how do you consider Mercedes to be organization supporting Nazism but simultaneously an organization which you are willing to give your money to?

Do you support the Nazis too or are you now accidently acknowledging the intervening four generations of history?

...and Lewis Hamilton is still the one with double standards?