Black Mercedes.
Discussion
rscott said:
TheDeuce said:
This black Merc is certainly driving some intense (and I have to say generally thoughtful and intelligent) debate on this thread. That's to be applauded 
Sadly it also attracted the "what about Hitler" posters too.
A lot of people are showing a great deal of healthy thought behind their postings though.
LucyP said:
Kraken: I suggest you look at these parts of their website then:
https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/
https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-matters-2020/
And when you have, no doubt you will wonder what a multi-billion £ car operation, run by predominantly white males that spends £100s of millions on a F1 team, run similarly by white males, that pays their lead driver £10s of millions per year, (who is based in Monaco with it's usual tax benefits), and is sponsored by a state oil company and a swiss bank has in common with those aims!
Which car company are you suggesting is aligned with those particular aims? You didn't say...https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/
https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-matters-2020/
And when you have, no doubt you will wonder what a multi-billion £ car operation, run by predominantly white males that spends £100s of millions on a F1 team, run similarly by white males, that pays their lead driver £10s of millions per year, (who is based in Monaco with it's usual tax benefits), and is sponsored by a state oil company and a swiss bank has in common with those aims!
rscott said:
LucyP said:
Kraken: I suggest you look at these parts of their website then:
https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/
https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-matters-2020/
And when you have, no doubt you will wonder what a multi-billion £ car operation, run by predominantly white males that spends £100s of millions on a F1 team, run similarly by white males, that pays their lead driver £10s of millions per year, (who is based in Monaco with it's usual tax benefits), and is sponsored by a state oil company and a swiss bank has in common with those aims!
Mercedes have not said they're endorsing or supporting BLM, only that they've pledged to work to improve the diversity of their team.and the car being black is a "clear statement that we stand against racism and all forms of discrimination." . Seems an eminently sensible approach - support the movement's aim to tackle racism and discrimination without endorsing or even mentioning some of the other aims of BLM .https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-we-believe/
https://blacklivesmatter.com/what-matters-2020/
And when you have, no doubt you will wonder what a multi-billion £ car operation, run by predominantly white males that spends £100s of millions on a F1 team, run similarly by white males, that pays their lead driver £10s of millions per year, (who is based in Monaco with it's usual tax benefits), and is sponsored by a state oil company and a swiss bank has in common with those aims!
https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/en/news/2020/06/silv...
Sky took a similar stand - clear statement that they're working to improve BAME representation at all levels and will use their platform to highlight racial injustice, but not endorsing or supporting the specific aims of BLM. https://www.skygroup.sky/en-gb/article/sky-commits...
Long term I think initiatives such as Mercedes, which seek knowledge and understanding ahead of 'demanding change', will provide the best long term improvements. Mercedes might have been prompted in to action by BLM news and social pressure, but their solution is their own, and it appears entirely laudable.
LucyP said:
You have missed the point. Painting the car black is a clear indication of support for BLM, just like people putting black circles on their Facebook pages. And if you are supporting the BLM movement, then you are supporting their Marxist politics too. You cannot separate one from the other. It has no place in F1.
Give it a few weeks and I doubt such displays of support will still be assumed to be support of BLM. IforB said:
Seems like a damned good idea to me.
Keeps their star driver happy, costs naff all, gets people talking and winds up those that require it.
Excellent.
And... it really looks better in black. If they'd just done that and attributed the change to nothing, I would still have been perfectly happy about it Keeps their star driver happy, costs naff all, gets people talking and winds up those that require it.
Excellent.
IforB said:
TheDeuce said:
IforB said:
Seems like a damned good idea to me.
Keeps their star driver happy, costs naff all, gets people talking and winds up those that require it.
Excellent.
And... it really looks better in black. If they'd just done that and attributed the change to nothing, I would still have been perfectly happy about it Keeps their star driver happy, costs naff all, gets people talking and winds up those that require it.
Excellent.
No F1 fan loses so far as I can see.. Except possibly a fractional minority who happen to be both colour blind and passionately racist, they won't enjoy the new car on any level I guess. Can't please everyone.
Berw said:
Sorry for a rant, but this really is a personal affront and is one of the most hypocritical things I've ever seen. Title sponsor is a state entity of one of the most racially divided countries on earth, where the law provides that one races gets; preferential places in university, lower prices on house purchases, racially divided education, certain races denied the right to buy certain land, races denied membership of armed forces and police, government positions reserved. As a Company policy employees of certain race get extra holidays. Can you imagine if they had a British Company sponsor who advocated and supported a government policy that White British people paid less for their houses, or had lower A Level results to enter a university.
Mercedes need to look a lot closer to home.
There is hypocrisy across much of what F1 teams say and whom they choose to take the sponsorship dollar from..Mercedes need to look a lot closer to home.
But, should that prevent worthwhile and positive steps being taken? Mercedes can improve their own outfit and in doing so create a template for improvement that others can adopt, in and beyond F1. They can't directly force change in how certain other countries treat race equality.
To flip your arguement on its head... Avoiding hypocrisy could be an effective block towards healthy progress. If we're going to make real progress then we have to accept that entities such as Mercedes F1 need to be supported in doing more things right, even though it's probably impractical for them to change 'overnight' all things that currently aren't ideal.
I stopped buying pre-packed supermarket food a couple of years ago, to save on packaging waste. However, my favourite takeaway still insists on using plastic, and I couldn't give that up. Does that make me a hypocrite? If so, fair enough. But I'm still bringing home a lot less unnecessary plastic.. There is still substantial progress made on my part.
ash73 said:
Premier League starts to distance itself from BLM:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/06/30/pr...
It's not clear to me whether F1/Merc endorse BLM or they're trying to do the same and cherry pick the woke bits; it will be interesting to see how often the phrase is used this weekend.
Merc have been clear that they are supporting what they believe, it's their initiative they support, not BLM. I expect several other organisations who initially jumped on the #BLM message will seek to more broadly support equality and not specifically BLM.https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2020/06/30/pr...
It's not clear to me whether F1/Merc endorse BLM or they're trying to do the same and cherry pick the woke bits; it will be interesting to see how often the phrase is used this weekend.
Regards F1's own initiative "we race as one" also appears proprietary. https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.formula...
LucyP said:
It's BLM support. Clear as day and a massive mistake. The Premiership has distanced itself from BLM following their extreme statements and all the Sky pundits removed the badges last night.
For those who question whether BLM are Marxist, follow the links that I posted yesterday and read for yourselves.
Mercedes have shot themselves in the foot on this one.
It's clear as day it's support to fight against inequality at every level. It's clear because Mercedes have clearly said as much. It should be clear to you because you seem fairly intelligent, despite your other irksome qualities, that Mercedes nor F1 are stupid enough to not crosscheck their policies with those of BLM, who clearly have incompatible ideas when it comes to capitalism and democracy.For those who question whether BLM are Marxist, follow the links that I posted yesterday and read for yourselves.
Mercedes have shot themselves in the foot on this one.
Why are you always looking for the most extreme drama in whatever is in the media? It was the same when we entered lock-down and you were telling anyone that didn't believe a single infected person would infect 80% of the paddock that they were being naive. And the same again when people started to point out that it would be possible for F1 to start up again before very long..
Are you here for F1 chat? Or here to attempt to desperately ramp up the drama of everything that F1 is having to deal with this year?
ash73 said:
I like the "we race as one" slogan, the standard logo colours are a bit crap but McLaren have done well with it.
It'll be interesting to see how they navigate through interviews, and inevitable BLM questions, and which phraseology they use.
I expect there's some last minute media training going on!
Yup. BLM support is in my view a disaster waiting to happen. I do expect that such questions will be dismissed with "I/we believe in what we believe.." followed by a reiteration of what those things are, inline with 'we race as one' and whatever initiative their own teams may have in place.It'll be interesting to see how they navigate through interviews, and inevitable BLM questions, and which phraseology they use.
I expect there's some last minute media training going on!
LucyP said:
So why is it suddenly black? Are you really so naive? It's utter virtual signalling of the worst kind because they are supporting a Marxist organisation and the backlash against BLM has already started.
Is the timing of Mercedes initiative a little virtuous? Yes.Are BLM pushing a socialist agenda? Yes.
Does Mercedes timing in getting involved with the equality debate = support for BLM? No.
You're mashing facts together and the result is catastrophically flawed logic. If you said that BLM's efforts were a prime factor in why the movement for equality is across the global media, and by extension a major factor in why Mercedes have decided at this time to have their own initiative in support of equality, I would agree. But you can't be that balanced can you? As I said earlier, you seek the extreme and most dramatic elements of each situation.
REALIST123 said:
So, given this new found humanity in F1, which is certainly well overdue, presumably we’ve seen the last GPs in China, Bahrain etc?
Turn that easy criticism in to an opportunity. If they continue to race in less.. ummm... 'woke' places then those watching their home race (albeit on TV because they can't afford to get in to the venue) will tune in expecting to see a race, and in addition will receive a 2 hour lecture on how to think differently and demand equality at work.There is an argument that the places that don't subscribe to your message, are the places you should travel to. So long as you accept that they may not give a toss about your message when you arrive.
PanicBuyingBogRoll said:
Triggered in 3.....2.....1......
Waiting for
It's gone to far now.
Why isn't Bottas wearing a white suit?
Just concentrate on the racing.
I just showed this to my wife to get her opinion, she says that actually Bottas looks very happy with his new race suit Waiting for
It's gone to far now.
Why isn't Bottas wearing a white suit?
Just concentrate on the racing.
Edited by PanicBuyingBogRoll on Thursday 2nd July 09:30
Lewis might be too - but he's chosen to cover it up.
Bo_apex said:
Makes you wonder if Hamilton or Mercedes have even looked at the data ?
No mention of the white victims killed by Police.
Afterall, Hamilton is half white.
Those stats bear no relevance on what is being protested against. It's not about how many of which ethnicity get themselves into activities where they are at risk of the police opening fire upon them... It's about the hidden % of each that are harmed/killed/mistreated in some way due to their skin colour.No mention of the white victims killed by Police.
Afterall, Hamilton is half white.
Good luck finding THOSE statistics. It's the police that write the reports after each incident, after all. And there is often no footage to show if the treatment was truly reasonable or not.
angrymoby said:
i don't get the negative comments on this thread, what exactly are you hoping to achieve?
no one is forcing you to get onboard with the BLM movement either politically or morally, Merc have already made their decision & afiaa none of you have the ear of anyone influential
If you're that bothered, either don't support the Mercs this weekend or don't buy a Merc in the future
because white folk trying to stop other white folk supporting non white folk, looks as ridiculous as it sounds
Mercedes aren't on-board with BLM either. That little mis-assumption is behind about half of the posts on this thread.no one is forcing you to get onboard with the BLM movement either politically or morally, Merc have already made their decision & afiaa none of you have the ear of anyone influential
If you're that bothered, either don't support the Mercs this weekend or don't buy a Merc in the future
because white folk trying to stop other white folk supporting non white folk, looks as ridiculous as it sounds
Piginapoke said:
Muzzer79 said:
Of course - Mercedes' sketchy history.
OK, let's write a collective PH letter to Mercedes, telling them that they shouldn't be trying to help raise awareness of racism and promote equality because 80 years ago they used slave labour.
Instead, let's tell them they should do nothing. Not try and help the cause at all, because they jolly well have no right to. They can keep their money and their influence and use it for other things which they are allowed to support.
Honestly.....
Maybe Merc should start addressing its 3% BAME workforce, rather than worrying about what colour the cars areOK, let's write a collective PH letter to Mercedes, telling them that they shouldn't be trying to help raise awareness of racism and promote equality because 80 years ago they used slave labour.
Instead, let's tell them they should do nothing. Not try and help the cause at all, because they jolly well have no right to. They can keep their money and their influence and use it for other things which they are allowed to support.
Honestly.....
Piginapoke said:
TheDeuce said:
Piginapoke said:
Muzzer79 said:
Of course - Mercedes' sketchy history.
OK, let's write a collective PH letter to Mercedes, telling them that they shouldn't be trying to help raise awareness of racism and promote equality because 80 years ago they used slave labour.
Instead, let's tell them they should do nothing. Not try and help the cause at all, because they jolly well have no right to. They can keep their money and their influence and use it for other things which they are allowed to support.
Honestly.....
Maybe Merc should start addressing its 3% BAME workforce, rather than worrying about what colour the cars areOK, let's write a collective PH letter to Mercedes, telling them that they shouldn't be trying to help raise awareness of racism and promote equality because 80 years ago they used slave labour.
Instead, let's tell them they should do nothing. Not try and help the cause at all, because they jolly well have no right to. They can keep their money and their influence and use it for other things which they are allowed to support.
Honestly.....
Piginapoke said:
OK Einstein; if addressing racial inequality is so important to Merc, why did it wait for the BLM movement/George Floyd bandwagon?
Because they movement is huge and all over the media. Now is a time where people are looking to big business to see what statement they will make, what they will do to respond... There is undeniably some pressure to respond, so they have. And naturally Lewis is involved in petitioning them to take it very seriously, as he takes it very seriously himself. We could debate whether he's taking some of it too far.... But that's ultimately his decision. He has the voice to speak up, and he has strong influence at Mercedes too.I would also be shocked if addressing racial inequality wasn't already part of Merc's normal routine in any case. They're undoubtedly a modern and forward thinking organisation. They won't have been blind to PC issues in general, but in the here and now the focus is on race and equality, and they have responded to that.
Nampahc Niloc said:
Can we try and not resort to playground insults.
You’re right in saying that Mercedes should have done something before now. The whole world should have done something before now, some have, many have not. That doesn’t meant that they shouldn’t do it now. Maybe it is just about PR. Or maybe they genuinely mean what they are saying and believe in the movement. The important thing is they are doing something about it now.
This is true. If organisations are criticised for doing something good today because they didn't do it yesterday, that just puts them off making changes. All this talk of corporate hypocrisy and the endless examples of it is just pointless. It's plain as day they can't change all things overnight, but any change is better than no change at all. Even if it is driven initially by PR, the fact is it's happening and will have an effect. More of an effect than doing bugger all..You’re right in saying that Mercedes should have done something before now. The whole world should have done something before now, some have, many have not. That doesn’t meant that they shouldn’t do it now. Maybe it is just about PR. Or maybe they genuinely mean what they are saying and believe in the movement. The important thing is they are doing something about it now.
The teams that so have done bugger all aren't being criticised regardless of who their sponsors/owners are!
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