Lewis Hamilton (Vol. 2)

[C70R]

ddom said:

C70R said:

- Launching his own line of cycling gear (a sport for rich people)

You ‘think JB is great’ yet wrote that?



What a plum. Clutching at straws

Ah, you again. Come to (ineffectively) troll me on another thread? I feel honoured.

Keep swinging, champ.

[M5-911]

I think that the FIA are playing an interesting game here:

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/152964/hamilton-...

[ddom]

C70R said:

Ah, you again. Come to (ineffectively) troll me on another thread? I feel honoured.

Keep swinging, champ.

You did say cycling a sport of the rich, similarly James May not a journo. You’re not the brightest eh?

[MarkwG]

M5-911 said:

I think that the FIA are playing an interesting game here:

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/152964/hamilton-...

Indeed - I look forward to being "urged to be gay"...!

[RichB]

MarkwG said:

M5-911 said:

I think that the FIA are playing an interesting game here:

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/152964/hamilton-...

Indeed - I look forward to being "urged to be gay"...!

Indeed an also-ran, journeyman driver who hasn't been in the sport for close on 10 years. Frankly they could not have dredged up a more unsuitable candidate.

[TheDeuce]

RichB said:

MarkwG said:

M5-911 said:

I think that the FIA are playing an interesting game here:

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/152964/hamilton-...

Indeed - I look forward to being "urged to be gay"...!

Indeed an also-ran, journeyman driver who hasn't been in the sport for close on 10 years. Frankly they could not have dredged up a more unsuitable candidate.

The choice is weird for sure... But I don't find anything wrong with what he's said. I think most of us were wondering why Lewis wore the t-shirt on the podium instead of using the moment to focus attention on the team that put him on it. I agree with the sentiment he wanted to get across but it was the wrong time, it's supposed to be a celebration of hard work moment and it's absolutely not just his moment - it's for the entire team to live through him. Also how many on here that are perfectly decent people struggle a bit with the 'taking a knee' statement ahead of each GP?

[HardtopManual]

C70R said:

- Launching his own line of cycling gear (a sport for rich people)

What a ludicrous thing to write. Riding a bike can be as cheap or expensive as you like.

[MarkwG]

TheDeuce said:

RichB said:

MarkwG said:

M5-911 said:

I think that the FIA are playing an interesting game here:

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/152964/hamilton-...

Indeed - I look forward to being "urged to be gay"...!

Indeed an also-ran, journeyman driver who hasn't been in the sport for close on 10 years. Frankly they could not have dredged up a more unsuitable candidate.

The choice is weird for sure... But I don't find anything wrong with what he's said. I think most of us were wondering why Lewis wore the t-shirt on the podium instead of using the moment to focus attention on the team that put him on it. I agree with the sentiment he wanted to get across but it was the wrong time, it's supposed to be a celebration of hard work moment and it's absolutely not just his moment - it's for the entire team to live through him. Also how many on here that are perfectly decent people struggle a bit with the 'taking a knee' statement ahead of each GP?

There's plenty in Petrovs statements that bother me, assuming he's not mis translated or mis quoted. I wouldn't presume to speak for "most" people, but all the "perfectly decent" people I know have a big problem with racism & absolutely support those who are prepared to stand up to it. Since he had the full support of his team at the time, seems they weren't bothered either.

[C70R]

TheDeuce said:

RichB said:

MarkwG said:

M5-911 said:

I think that the FIA are playing an interesting game here:

https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/152964/hamilton-...

Indeed - I look forward to being "urged to be gay"...!

Indeed an also-ran, journeyman driver who hasn't been in the sport for close on 10 years. Frankly they could not have dredged up a more unsuitable candidate.

The choice is weird for sure... But I don't find anything wrong with what he's said. I think most of us were wondering why Lewis wore the t-shirt on the podium instead of using the moment to focus attention on the team that put him on it. I agree with the sentiment he wanted to get across but it was the wrong time, it's supposed to be a celebration of hard work moment and it's absolutely not just his moment - it's for the entire team to live through him. Also how many on here that are perfectly decent people struggle a bit with the 'taking a knee' statement ahead of each GP?

Love the suggestion that Russia doesn't have a problem with racism. What ridiculous fiction.

I'm a white bloke in my 30s, and taking the knee doesn't offend me in the slightest. I can't imagine getting so worked up about such a polite and respectful way of someone sharing their beliefs beliefs in the way that others have on this thread, that is unless I fundamentally disagreed with them.

Personally, I love that he's using his position to highlight a major societal issue.
I also love watching the mental gymnastics (here and elsewhere) throwing the BLM organisation's politics out there as a reason for being annoyed by him taking a knee. As if to suggest that a group of loonies sharing Hamilton's view somehow invalidate it or make it objectionable.

[TheDeuce]

MarkwG said:

There's plenty in Petrovs statements that bother me, assuming he's not mis translated or mis quoted. I wouldn't presume to speak for "most" people, but all the "perfectly decent" people I know have a big problem with racism & absolutely support those who are prepared to stand up to it. Since he had the full support of his team at the time, seems they weren't bothered either.

He hasn't said he isn't anti-racist, he's simply said he doesn't understand the repeat taking a knee ceremony. Obviously we can all understand the meaning of it, but questioning the particular gesture isn't 'racist'.

His comments about 'we have no such problem in Russia' are hard for me to accept, but quite frankly he's Russian and has little option but to publicly repeat the official line..

Yes he is foreign (ironic, given what we're discussing) so he does speak in more basic and blunt terms when speaking in English, but other than media sensationalism and Lewis jumping on it as an example of the problem, he hasn't actually said or hinted at anything racist at all has he? He's only said that he thinks it's too much as have probably the majority on here. I certainly think it's too much and out of proportion for many entirely logical reasons - doesn't mean I don't think racism isn't an issue and shouldn't be tackled.

A sense of perspective is needed I think.

[MarkwG]

TheDeuce said:

MarkwG said:

There's plenty in Petrovs statements that bother me, assuming he's not mis translated or mis quoted. I wouldn't presume to speak for "most" people, but all the "perfectly decent" people I know have a big problem with racism & absolutely support those who are prepared to stand up to it. Since he had the full support of his team at the time, seems they weren't bothered either.

He hasn't said he isn't anti-racist, he's simply said he doesn't understand the repeat taking a knee ceremony. Obviously we can all understand the meaning of it, but questioning the particular gesture isn't 'racist'.

His comments about 'we have no such problem in Russia' are hard for me to accept, but quite frankly he's Russian and has little option but to publicly repeat the official line..

Yes he is foreign (ironic, given what we're discussing) so he does speak in more basic and blunt terms when speaking in English, but other than media sensationalism and Lewis jumping on it as an example of the problem, he hasn't actually said or hinted at anything racist at all has he? He's only said that he thinks it's too much as have probably the majority on here. I certainly think it's too much and out of proportion for many entirely logical reasons - doesn't mean I don't think racism isn't an issue and shouldn't be tackled.

A sense of perspective is needed I think.

I think you misconstrue what I wrote: my issue is with your statement about "most people" & "perfectly decent". Neither of us represent anyone but ourselves - you mention "the majority on here" - you have no way of knowing that, but you continue to present your view as the dominant one. Your point that Hamilton stood alone in wearing the T shirt is incorrect, Mercedes are on record as in full support. You may feel perspective is needed, but you may well be alone in that view, too.

[TheDeuce]

MarkwG said:

TheDeuce said:

MarkwG said:

There's plenty in Petrovs statements that bother me, assuming he's not mis translated or mis quoted. I wouldn't presume to speak for "most" people, but all the "perfectly decent" people I know have a big problem with racism & absolutely support those who are prepared to stand up to it. Since he had the full support of his team at the time, seems they weren't bothered either.

He hasn't said he isn't anti-racist, he's simply said he doesn't understand the repeat taking a knee ceremony. Obviously we can all understand the meaning of it, but questioning the particular gesture isn't 'racist'.

His comments about 'we have no such problem in Russia' are hard for me to accept, but quite frankly he's Russian and has little option but to publicly repeat the official line..

Yes he is foreign (ironic, given what we're discussing) so he does speak in more basic and blunt terms when speaking in English, but other than media sensationalism and Lewis jumping on it as an example of the problem, he hasn't actually said or hinted at anything racist at all has he? He's only said that he thinks it's too much as have probably the majority on here. I certainly think it's too much and out of proportion for many entirely logical reasons - doesn't mean I don't think racism isn't an issue and shouldn't be tackled.

A sense of perspective is needed I think.

I think you misconstrue what I wrote: my issue is with your statement about "most people" & "perfectly decent". Neither of us represent anyone but ourselves - you mention "the majority on here" - you have no way of knowing that, but you continue to present your view as the dominant one. Your point that Hamilton stood alone in wearing the T shirt is incorrect, Mercedes are on record as in full support. You may feel perspective is needed, but you may well be alone in that view, too.

'May'... That's why I said 'I think' etc etc. The impression I get is that the majority on these boards felt the t-shirt was a bit much.

Yes fine, I may be wrong and of course I can only speak for myself, as can any of us. I didn't speak for anyone else at all - I don't really understand what your issue is. Unless you're just an extreme pedant looking for some small example of something I could have worded better in the face of what is clearly a much more important issue?

[ddom]

HardtopManual said:

What a ludicrous thing to write. Riding a bike can be as cheap or expensive as you like.

Yep. Idiotic statement.

[TheDeuce]

ddom said:

HardtopManual said:

What a ludicrous thing to write. Riding a bike can be as cheap or expensive as you like.

Yep. Idiotic statement.

Quite - I could have sworn riding a bike used to be a predominantly kids activity back in the 80's... I don't think any of my school friends that had a bike were in the top 5% disposable income category! Although one of them also had a very nice skateboard so I suppose he did quite well for himself

[MarkwG]

TheDeuce said:

MarkwG said:

TheDeuce said:

MarkwG said:

There's plenty in Petrovs statements that bother me, assuming he's not mis translated or mis quoted. I wouldn't presume to speak for "most" people, but all the "perfectly decent" people I know have a big problem with racism & absolutely support those who are prepared to stand up to it. Since he had the full support of his team at the time, seems they weren't bothered either.

He hasn't said he isn't anti-racist, he's simply said he doesn't understand the repeat taking a knee ceremony. Obviously we can all understand the meaning of it, but questioning the particular gesture isn't 'racist'.

His comments about 'we have no such problem in Russia' are hard for me to accept, but quite frankly he's Russian and has little option but to publicly repeat the official line..

Yes he is foreign (ironic, given what we're discussing) so he does speak in more basic and blunt terms when speaking in English, but other than media sensationalism and Lewis jumping on it as an example of the problem, he hasn't actually said or hinted at anything racist at all has he? He's only said that he thinks it's too much as have probably the majority on here. I certainly think it's too much and out of proportion for many entirely logical reasons - doesn't mean I don't think racism isn't an issue and shouldn't be tackled.

A sense of perspective is needed I think.

I think you misconstrue what I wrote: my issue is with your statement about "most people" & "perfectly decent". Neither of us represent anyone but ourselves - you mention "the majority on here" - you have no way of knowing that, but you continue to present your view as the dominant one. Your point that Hamilton stood alone in wearing the T shirt is incorrect, Mercedes are on record as in full support. You may feel perspective is needed, but you may well be alone in that view, too.

'May'... That's why I said 'I think' etc etc. The impression I get is that the majority on these boards felt the t-shirt was a bit much.

Yes fine, I may be wrong and of course I can only speak for myself, as can any of us. I didn't speak for anyone else at all - I don't really understand what your issue is. Unless you're just an extreme pedant looking for some small example of something I could have worded better in the face of what is clearly a much more important issue?

You understand the implication of what you wrote, it has nothing to do with pedantry. You're underlining that you hold the dominant view, & that "decent" people think that way too - hence those who think differently aren't "decent". I find that quite offensive, particularly when it's referencing comments by a third party regarding homosexuality & race. You started with "I don't find anything wrong in what he said" - well, I do, & that doesn't make me a pedant or indecent, thanks.

[TheDeuce]

MarkwG said:

TheDeuce said:

MarkwG said:

TheDeuce said:

MarkwG said:

There's plenty in Petrovs statements that bother me, assuming he's not mis translated or mis quoted. I wouldn't presume to speak for "most" people, but all the "perfectly decent" people I know have a big problem with racism & absolutely support those who are prepared to stand up to it. Since he had the full support of his team at the time, seems they weren't bothered either.

He hasn't said he isn't anti-racist, he's simply said he doesn't understand the repeat taking a knee ceremony. Obviously we can all understand the meaning of it, but questioning the particular gesture isn't 'racist'.

His comments about 'we have no such problem in Russia' are hard for me to accept, but quite frankly he's Russian and has little option but to publicly repeat the official line..

Yes he is foreign (ironic, given what we're discussing) so he does speak in more basic and blunt terms when speaking in English, but other than media sensationalism and Lewis jumping on it as an example of the problem, he hasn't actually said or hinted at anything racist at all has he? He's only said that he thinks it's too much as have probably the majority on here. I certainly think it's too much and out of proportion for many entirely logical reasons - doesn't mean I don't think racism isn't an issue and shouldn't be tackled.

A sense of perspective is needed I think.

I think you misconstrue what I wrote: my issue is with your statement about "most people" & "perfectly decent". Neither of us represent anyone but ourselves - you mention "the majority on here" - you have no way of knowing that, but you continue to present your view as the dominant one. Your point that Hamilton stood alone in wearing the T shirt is incorrect, Mercedes are on record as in full support. You may feel perspective is needed, but you may well be alone in that view, too.

'May'... That's why I said 'I think' etc etc. The impression I get is that the majority on these boards felt the t-shirt was a bit much.

Yes fine, I may be wrong and of course I can only speak for myself, as can any of us. I didn't speak for anyone else at all - I don't really understand what your issue is. Unless you're just an extreme pedant looking for some small example of something I could have worded better in the face of what is clearly a much more important issue?

You understand the implication of what you wrote, it has nothing to do with pedantry. You're underlining that you hold the dominant view, & that "decent" people think that way too - hence those who think differently aren't "decent". I find that quite offensive, particularly when it's referencing comments by a third party regarding homosexuality & race. You started with "I don't find anything wrong in what he said" - well, I do, & that doesn't make me a pedant or indecent, thanks.

Read it again. I didn't speak for 'most decent people' at all. Stop being so desperately quick to call someone else out. I 'asked' how many decent people also don't have an issues with Petrov's questioning the extent of the political message.

I made no statement on behalf of anyone else at all. You however have stated that I am dictating a dominant view.. Then you make some weird link between me pointing out I think you're being a pedant in regards to my comments, to me suggesting you're a pedant for not agreeing with what Petrov said!? How did you make that leap?

And what on earth ae you thanking me for? You clearly don't agree with anything I have said, or at least don't agree with how you have read it.

[C70R]

TheDeuce said:

ddom said:

HardtopManual said:

What a ludicrous thing to write. Riding a bike can be as cheap or expensive as you like.

Yep. Idiotic statement.

Quite - I could have sworn riding a bike used to be a predominantly kids activity back in the 80's... I don't think any of my school friends that had a bike were in the top 5% disposable income category! Although one of them also had a very nice skateboard so I suppose he did quite well for himself

You're right. How silly of me.

Those triathletes and sport cyclists like JB (you know, the ones he's marketing that expensive gear to) are all riding £100 Raleigh mountain bikes bought on Gumtree.

There's also absolutely no difference between my 70yo mother riding a bike along the front at Hove, and someone riding seriously for actual sport.

What a predictable reaction and a classically terrible PH attempt at a retort that is.

Edited by C70R on Friday 23 October 06:58

[Fresh Prince]

I think there’s plenty wrong with Petrov‘s statement, but he’s entitled to his view. I don’t follow the analogy either, gay protestors aren’t trying to get people to “confess” or convert to being gay, I’m sure their protest would be more about their right to exist without threat to life and be part of society.

[TheDeuce]

C70R said:

You're right. How silly of me.

Those triathletes and sport cyclists like JB (you know, the ones he's marketing that expensive gear to) are all riding £100 Raleigh mountain bikes bought on Gumtree.

There's also absolutely no difference between my 70yo mother riding a bike along the front at Hove, and someone riding seriously for actual sport.

What a predictable reaction and a classically terrible PH attempt at a retort that is.

Edited by C70R on Friday 23 October 06:58

You said cycling was a sport for rich people...

That's simply not true is it? Yes perhaps some that take part in cycling as a sport are spending insane money on their kit to gain an advantage at the elite level, but there are also more riders in amateur competitions that aren't rich at all - same as club level motorsport. In both instances they'll probably spend thousands a year, but that isn't being 'rich', people from all walks of life find that sort of money for whatever their chief passion is; golf, fishing, music etc.

[C70R]

Fresh Prince said:

I think there’s plenty wrong with Petrov‘s statement, but he’s entitled to his view. I don’t follow the analogy either, gay protestors aren’t trying to get people to “confess” or convert to being gay, I’m sure their protest would be more about their right to exist without threat to life and be part of society.

Russia has a horrendous record when it comes to treatment of gay people and ethnic minorities. Yet, in classic Soviet propaganda fashion, they can't keep their mouths shut when given an international stage.

The government typically raise it as an issue of religion, but that's a thin veneer. Religious participation in Russia is in serious decline, but the government need a yardstick to hold these non-conservative views against so that they can be called "anti-establishment".

The average Joseph on the street probably doesn't care, but the government have made the tiny gay community scapegoats for things like falling birthrates. The actual truth is that birthrates are falling due to declining economic conditions and general westernisation of values (in 90s Russia you were considered an "old mother" if you were over 25).

In spite of this, the more progressive/Western St Petersburg has a relatively vibrant LGBT+ scene, where it's a case of "out of sight, out of mind" for Moscow.

Source: Have gay Russian friends, have spent a lot of time in the country.