Lewis Hamilton (Vol. 2)
Discussion
chippy348 said:
What i dont see being asked is this,
If LH had not Hit MV, would LH and made the corner on the track ?
I feel LH would have ran wide and gone off the track, to me that is the answer.
LH was never going to make that corner at that speed and from the position he was on the track
What?If LH had not Hit MV, would LH and made the corner on the track ?
I feel LH would have ran wide and gone off the track, to me that is the answer.
LH was never going to make that corner at that speed and from the position he was on the track
He'd have easily made the corner. And he did make the corner.
What are you on about?
chippy348 said:
MarkwG said:
Except he did make it around the corner, reasonably comfortably; the minor touch against Verstappen made no difference, certainly wasn't sufficient to change his trajectory. Verstappen also had plenty of room on the left, he chose not to use it.
Yes but then lost the place to Charles as he slowed down that much to keep it on the track. So from my point if he had not made contact into MV he was going to loose a bunch of time buy running wide as he as going to fast and on the wrong line.
He was 1-2 car widths off the apex understeering into Max and ran wide. If Max wasn’t there he may have been able to slow more and make the corner but we all know that with the safe run off there any of the drivers would have just kept it pinned and run 20yards wide rather than slow.
It could have just been an error, or coldish tyres or full weight or never having attempted that line before but I think it was a Hamilton cockup rather than anything unfair from max or Hamilton trying to make a point. If that is how he is choosing to deliberately make a point then he loses all respect and deserves a ban.
Compare it to his move on CLC, CLC was on pretty much the same line as Max, giving Hamilton the same 1-2 cars of room. But this time Hamilton got turned in, all over the apex kerb, and didn’t even run to the edge of the track on exit. That is how you do it.
vdn said:
What?
He'd have easily made the corner. And he did make the corner.
What are you on about?
Agree with this. Hamilton made the corner and Verstappen tried to defend in his usual aggressive manner. It’s a racing incident for me. He'd have easily made the corner. And he did make the corner.
What are you on about?
All the whining about not overtaking into Copse, if the powers that be decide the old pit straight is a DRS zone, surely that makes the corner an overtaking opportunity.
What do people think racing drivers are going to do? Verstappen would have tried the same manoeuvre.
Edited by Little Pete on Monday 19th July 08:21
Little Pete said:
vdn said:
What?
He'd have easily made the corner. And he did make the corner.
What are you on about?
Agree with this. Hamilton made the corner and Verstappen tried to defend in his usual aggressive manner. It’s a racing incident for me. He'd have easily made the corner. And he did make the corner.
What are you on about?
All the whining about not overtaking into Copse, if the powers that be decide the old pit straight is a DRS zone, surely that makes the corner an overtaking opportunity.
What do people think racing drivers are going to do? Verstappen would have tried the same manoeuvre.
Max is even shown purposely turning in on Hamilton when he knew Lewis has the run up the inside.
RB Will said:
He didn’t make the corner. He was all 4 wheels off wide on the exit.
He was 1-2 car widths off the apex understeering into Max and ran wide. If Max wasn’t there he may have been able to slow more and make the corner but we all know that with the safe run off there any of the drivers would have just kept it pinned and run 20yards wide rather than slow.
It could have just been an error, or coldish tyres or full weight or never having attempted that line before but I think it was a Hamilton cockup rather than anything unfair from max or Hamilton trying to make a point. If that is how he is choosing to deliberately make a point then he loses all respect and deserves a ban.
Compare it to his move on CLC, CLC was on pretty much the same line as Max, giving Hamilton the same 1-2 cars of room. But this time Hamilton got turned in, all over the apex kerb, and didn’t even run to the edge of the track on exit. That is how you do it.
He was 1-2 car widths off the apex understeering into Max and ran wide. If Max wasn’t there he may have been able to slow more and make the corner but we all know that with the safe run off there any of the drivers would have just kept it pinned and run 20yards wide rather than slow.
It could have just been an error, or coldish tyres or full weight or never having attempted that line before but I think it was a Hamilton cockup rather than anything unfair from max or Hamilton trying to make a point. If that is how he is choosing to deliberately make a point then he loses all respect and deserves a ban.
Compare it to his move on CLC, CLC was on pretty much the same line as Max, giving Hamilton the same 1-2 cars of room. But this time Hamilton got turned in, all over the apex kerb, and didn’t even run to the edge of the track on exit. That is how you do it.
This was from the race thread. If Hamilton made an error is it not an error to be turning across the nose of a car on the side. You can see Hamilton's wing there and Max has the steering turned completely into Hamilton's car. You'd also consider the move Max did before on the straight, he moved twice and pushed Hamilton right into the wall, then rapidly switched back to the outside thinking Hamilton would brake more due to him forcing the most acute angle.
As shown look at the Luffields a few corners before. That time Hamilton was ahead on the outside - but he went much wider in the corner and drove to give the car room on the inside, not assuming it would vanish. Look at the aerial shots and it's almost a carbon repeat, apart from what the car on the outside did.
Northernboy said:
NRS said:
Agreed, Max should have have either gone round the outside or done the switch around. Instead he was reckless and cut across the front of Lewis.
I think that Hamilton has been yielding quite easily before today.He was doing it for the right reasons; playing the long game when he assumed he’d naturally end up ahead, but now that it’s clear that his advantage is marginal at best he knows that he has to be more assertive.
I think that the stewards got this one wrong. There was an open door, but even if it’s closing a racer needs to go for it.
If he ignores a closing door then he’s already lost.
Max has been taking advantage of Hamilton’s “play it safe” attitude and today found out what happens when the other guy doesn’t let you do that.
I hope he’s doing well, and has no major injuries, and I hope that Hamilton puts him into the wall every time that he tries the same move in the future.
NRS said:
Agreed. Hamilton has learned with his experience not to fight every corner. Up to now that has been not really defending hard at all. Today that turned into giving up the corners Hamilton will be wiped out in with contact, but not the corner the opponent will be wiped out. Max hasn't learnt that yet and was just fighting everything.
Agreed. At the end of the previous straight Hamilton was ahead of Verstappen but didn’t turn in to the left hander because contact would have been inevitable. I think into Copse Hamilton felt he had done enough. No wonder the stewards are so hard on actual racing with all these people moaning on twitter about Hamilton being dangerous with this manoeuvre, then they'll moan it's all just a boring procession when they get their way.
Max would have done precisely the same if it were the other way around, that's racing.
Max would have done precisely the same if it were the other way around, that's racing.
NRS said:
. You'd also consider the move Max did before on the straight, he moved twice and pushed Hamilton right into the wall, then rapidly switched back to the outside thinking Hamilton would brake more due to him forcing the most acute angle.
As shown look at the Luffields a few corners before. That time Hamilton was ahead on the outside - but he went much wider in the corner and drove to give the car room on the inside, not assuming it would vanish. Look at the aerial shots and it's almost a carbon repeat, apart from what the car on the outside did.
Not sure I’d call that 2 moves on the straight (assume the stewards didn’t either). He was going right anyway and went maybe a foot more until he saw Hamilton sticking it up there anyway and moved back left as is allowed. It’s not like he went weaving around in front of Hamilton or crowded him off the track with 2 big moves. As shown look at the Luffields a few corners before. That time Hamilton was ahead on the outside - but he went much wider in the corner and drove to give the car room on the inside, not assuming it would vanish. Look at the aerial shots and it's almost a carbon repeat, apart from what the car on the outside did.
And yes, knowing Hamilton had put himself on the worst possible line for the corner it could be fairly assumed that he was going to have to scrub some speed in order to make the corner and Max coming in almost on the racing line would have been carrying enough speed to clear him had Hamilton slowed sufficiently to make the corner. Max left him plenty of room, not chopped across his nose
As for a carbon copy of Luffields area then look.
Look how far wide Hamilton is on the inside here, when he overtook CLC he was almost up on the red kerbs
Compared to Max’s perfectly positioned and completely under control move previously, he couldn’t be more on the apex and away from Hamilton if he tried. He was never any danger to Hamilton
If anything CLC actually gave Hamilton less room
The pages on PH were written faster then I could keep up. Some old arguments, usual bickering and also some good information from guys with racing experience. I have none. So from a pure ignorant viewers perspective I have to say that for Hamilton to try and over/undertake on that corner could only have worked if the molecules of the lead car somehow went into another dimension.
He knew there had be contact and was in the wrong, hence his 10 second penalty.
Being a winner and world champion means also having the grace to know how to be second at times. But his ego couldn’t accept that not even for one lap.
Home crowd? Why did we let so many Monegasque in and did they self isolate?
I was always 50/50 over him, now I consider him unsportsmanlike.
He knew there had be contact and was in the wrong, hence his 10 second penalty.
Being a winner and world champion means also having the grace to know how to be second at times. But his ego couldn’t accept that not even for one lap.
Home crowd? Why did we let so many Monegasque in and did they self isolate?
I was always 50/50 over him, now I consider him unsportsmanlike.
Unbusy said:
The pages on PH were written faster then I could keep up. Some old arguments, usual bickering and also some good information from guys with racing experience. I have none. So from a pure ignorant viewers perspective I have to say that for Hamilton to try and over/undertake on that corner could only have worked if the molecules of the lead car somehow went into another dimension.
He knew there had be contact and was in the wrong, hence his 10 second penalty.
Being a winner and world champion means also having the grace to know how to be second at times. But his ego couldn’t accept that not even for one lap.
Home crowd? Why did we let so many Monegasque in and did they self isolate?
I was always 50/50 over him, now I consider him unsportsmanlike.
So surely Max also knew that there would possibly be contact and could have left some more space?He knew there had be contact and was in the wrong, hence his 10 second penalty.
Being a winner and world champion means also having the grace to know how to be second at times. But his ego couldn’t accept that not even for one lap.
Home crowd? Why did we let so many Monegasque in and did they self isolate?
I was always 50/50 over him, now I consider him unsportsmanlike.
It's a racing incident, nothing more.
Killer2005 said:
Unbusy said:
The pages on PH were written faster then I could keep up. Some old arguments, usual bickering and also some good information from guys with racing experience. I have none. So from a pure ignorant viewers perspective I have to say that for Hamilton to try and over/undertake on that corner could only have worked if the molecules of the lead car somehow went into another dimension.
He knew there had be contact and was in the wrong, hence his 10 second penalty.
Being a winner and world champion means also having the grace to know how to be second at times. But his ego couldn’t accept that not even for one lap.
Home crowd? Why did we let so many Monegasque in and did they self isolate?
I was always 50/50 over him, now I consider him unsportsmanlike.
So surely Max also knew that there would possibly be contact and could have left some more space?He knew there had be contact and was in the wrong, hence his 10 second penalty.
Being a winner and world champion means also having the grace to know how to be second at times. But his ego couldn’t accept that not even for one lap.
Home crowd? Why did we let so many Monegasque in and did they self isolate?
I was always 50/50 over him, now I consider him unsportsmanlike.
It's a racing incident, nothing more.
Unbusy said:
The pages on PH were written faster then I could keep up. Some old arguments, usual bickering and also some good information from guys with racing experience. I have none. So from a pure ignorant viewers perspective I have to say that for Hamilton to try and over/undertake on that corner could only have worked if the molecules of the lead car somehow went into another dimension.
Well no, you see Verstapoen steer into the corner, heading for the apex, so if he hadn’t done that there would have been no collision, in just the same way that if Hamilton had not tried the overtake there wouldn’t have been one.You are implying that Verstappen’s steering input is an immutable law of physics. It isn’t. We had two drivers going for the same piece of road.
RB Will said:
Scolmore said:
And your take on Karun's analysis, which shows Max deliberately cutting Lewis off after initially steering to avoid?
Haven’t seen it, I dont have Sky If as Horner was saying - "You can't overtake at Copse" - what was his reaction to Hamilton overtaking Leclerc at the same corner. I have been looking at the replay of both overtakes and both Verstappen and Leclerc accelerated after Hamilton overtook them - Max turned in though, causing a collision. Charles didn't and ran off the track.
andyA700 said:
If as Horner was saying - "You can't overtake at Copse" - what was his reaction to Hamilton overtaking Leclerc at the same corner. I have been looking at the replay of both overtakes and both Verstappen and Leclerc accelerated after Hamilton overtook them - Max turned in though, causing a collision. Charles didn't and ran off the track.
When Grumpy Spice makes comments like that, the disingenuity is clear for all to see. Same as his “Hamilton is dangerous” whilst he has arguably one of the most dangerous F1 drivers on his payroll. 
andyA700 said:
If as Horner was saying - "You can't overtake at Copse" - what was his reaction to Hamilton overtaking Leclerc at the same corner. I have been looking at the replay of both overtakes and both Verstappen and Leclerc accelerated after Hamilton overtook them - Max turned in though, causing a collision. Charles didn't and ran off the track.
Or when Albon went around the outside of Raikkonen last year... Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff