Lewis Hamilton (Vol. 2)

[768]

Str6mik said:

Doesn’t strolls performance in last years merc rather put Hamilton’s performance into some sort of perspective?

If you look at the relative net gains of the cars - yoy, last years merc should be still right up there.

We’ve consistently heard anyone would be able to win in a merc - why aren’t they?

Didn't pay much attention to the yoy difference, but thought I caught Coulthard saying he reckoned it was > 0.7s, at least on one lap pace.

That doesn't put Stroll very far down the road. And, as above, he's not actually in last year's Merc.

[Killer2005]

paulguitar said:

DeltonaS said:

Hamilton is ranked No,1 because he's in the best car first and foremosty.

Try again, the ranking is based on driver performance, not car performance.

Some questions for you, Deltona:

1. Why was Hamilton clearly better than the opposition in all junior formulae?

2. Why do the team managers, current drivers, and former drivers consistently rate Hamilton as the best?

3. Why does Mercedes keep Hamilton on as the highest salaried driver? Why not just employ someone else, for a load less money?

4. Why are you so obsessed with proving that Hamilton is not as good as the stats suggest.

[paulguitar]

Killer2005 said:

4. Why are you so obsessed with proving that Hamilton is not as good as the stats suggest.

[Killer2005]

paulguitar said:

Killer2005 said:

4. Why are you so obsessed with proving that Hamilton is not as good as the stats suggest.

Sorry, it was meant as an additional question for Deltona, not for your good self.

[paulguitar]

Killer2005 said:

paulguitar said:

Killer2005 said:

4. Why are you so obsessed with proving that Hamilton is not as good as the stats suggest.

Sorry, it was meant as an additional question for Deltona, not for your good self.

Aha!

[sparta6]

danzman1991 said:

I personally lost a huge amount of respect for LH after he took a photographer with him to the BLM riots in London.

I thought it was a peaceful demonstration about equality ?

Not sure if taking your nanny, photographer and bodyguard along really cuts it though

[vdn]

Killer2005 said:

paulguitar said:

DeltonaS said:

Hamilton is ranked No,1 because he's in the best car first and foremosty.

Try again, the ranking is based on driver performance, not car performance.

Some questions for you, Deltona:

1. Why was Hamilton clearly better than the opposition in all junior formulae?

2. Why do the team managers, current drivers, and former drivers consistently rate Hamilton as the best?

3. Why does Mercedes keep Hamilton on as the highest salaried driver? Why not just employ someone else, for a load less money?

4. Why are you so obsessed with proving that Hamilton is not as good as the stats suggest.

Deltonas has been asked the same questions before and never been able to answer them.

The silence speaks volumes

[BrettMRC]

vdn said:

Killer2005 said:

paulguitar said:

DeltonaS said:

Hamilton is ranked No,1 because he's in the best car first and foremosty.

Try again, the ranking is based on driver performance, not car performance.

Some questions for you, Deltona:

1. Why was Hamilton clearly better than the opposition in all junior formulae?

2. Why do the team managers, current drivers, and former drivers consistently rate Hamilton as the best?

3. Why does Mercedes keep Hamilton on as the highest salaried driver? Why not just employ someone else, for a load less money?

4. Why are you so obsessed with proving that Hamilton is not as good as the stats suggest.

Deltonas has been asked the same questions before and never been able to answer them.

The silence speaks volumes

Perhaps there is something else going on?
Did he possibly run in to him in a Jason Plato like setting and not get what he was after?

[Muzzer79]

Nampahc Niloc said:

I don’t understand all these people who make out that Hamilton isn’t anything special because he’s got the best car, but don’t apply that logic to anyone else throughout history.

Quite

Let's list the other drivers who have won the WDC and pick out the ones who weren't in the best car.

2016 - Rosberg - Best car
2010-2013 - Vettel - Best car
2009 - Button - Best car (well, for a big chunk of the year)
2007 - Raikkonen - Best car
2005-2006 - Alonso - Best car
2000-2004 - Schumacher - Best car
1998-1999 - Hakkinen - Best car
1997 - Villeneuve - Best car
1996 - Hill - Best car
1995 - Schumacher - 2nd best car
1994 - Schumacher - Best car
1993 - Prost - Best car
1992 - Mansell - Best car
1991 - Senna - Best car

"Best car" is obviously a subjective term but as a clear cut case it's only really Schumacher's '95 WDC that sticks out but, to counter that, I'd also say that Hamilton won in 2008 in not the best car.

Greatness is achieved by a combination of things - right-car-right-time, talent, professionalism, luck, team-work, relative competition, adaptability......I could go on.

Plenty of great drivers have not achieved as much without one or more of those things but the greatest have some of all of them, to varying degrees.

It will forever be debatable as to who was/is the best and I'm not his biggest fan but, with his stats, to not put Hamilton up there is ignorant.

[ch37]

Best driver, best car, best team (by some margin), a fairly intimidating combination. The current Mercedes team (i.e. everyone) must go down as one of the greatest in the sport. Sure they make mistakes and can be quite conservative, but overall it's an incredible set up.

Ferrari arguably had the best car last year and in LeClerc and Vettel could've/should've made as strong an attempt for a title as we've seen in years, but organisationally they are absolutely all over the place.

[jimPH]

There's always two drivers. The fact only one keeps winning does say something.

We know Merc don't favour any drivers, some other teams do though.

[C70R]

ch37 said:

Best driver, best car, best team (by some margin), a fairly intimidating combination. The current Mercedes team (i.e. everyone) must go down as one of the greatest in the sport. Sure they make mistakes and can be quite conservative, but overall it's an incredible set up.

Ferrari arguably had the best car last year and in LeClerc and Vettel could've/should've made as strong an attempt for a title as we've seen in years, but organisationally they are absolutely all over the place.

This is the interesting angle that's not talked about enough.

Is this the best team we've ever seen in the sport?

[kambites]

C70R said:

This is the interesting angle that's not talked about enough.

Is this the best team we've ever seen in the sport?

Various people have tried to analyse how dominant various periods have been and the usual conclusion is that Mercedes' current run is most impressive for its length and the fact it spans major rule changes but that other teams have had shorter periods of greater dominance. Although I suppose this year may change that last bit; I think this looks to be the biggest lead in terms of outright pace Mercedes have had yet?

[Muzzer79]

C70R said:

ch37 said:

Best driver, best car, best team (by some margin), a fairly intimidating combination. The current Mercedes team (i.e. everyone) must go down as one of the greatest in the sport. Sure they make mistakes and can be quite conservative, but overall it's an incredible set up.

Ferrari arguably had the best car last year and in LeClerc and Vettel could've/should've made as strong an attempt for a title as we've seen in years, but organisationally they are absolutely all over the place.

This is the interesting angle that's not talked about enough.

Is this the best team we've ever seen in the sport?

Over a single season, no - for me that still goes to Mclaren in '88 when they won every race apart from one. (Mercedes may equal/beat that this year though)

Over an 'era', yes. Here, the stats do say everything and winning 6 titles on the bounce, with number 7 surely to follow, is without equal.

Of all time, no. Factoring in longevity and number of titles overall, you're hard-pushed to look past Ferrari.

[sparta6]

Muzzer79 said:

Nampahc Niloc said:

I don’t understand all these people who make out that Hamilton isn’t anything special because he’s got the best car, but don’t apply that logic to anyone else throughout history.

Quite

Let's list the other drivers who have won the WDC and pick out the ones who weren't in the best car.

2016 - Rosberg - Best car
2010-2013 - Vettel - Best car
2009 - Button - Best car (well, for a big chunk of the year)
2007 - Raikkonen - Best car
2005-2006 - Alonso - Best car
2000-2004 - Schumacher - Best car
1998-1999 - Hakkinen - Best car
1997 - Villeneuve - Best car
1996 - Hill - Best car
1995 - Schumacher - 2nd best car
1994 - Schumacher - Best car
1993 - Prost - Best car
1992 - Mansell - Best car
1991 - Senna - Best car

"Best car" is obviously a subjective term but as a clear cut case it's only really Schumacher's '95 WDC that sticks out but, to counter that, I'd also say that Hamilton won in 2008 in not the best car.

Greatness is achieved by a combination of things - right-car-right-time, talent, professionalism, luck, team-work, relative competition, adaptability......I could go on.

Plenty of great drivers have not achieved as much without one or more of those things but the greatest have some of all of them, to varying degrees.

It will forever be debatable as to who was/is the best and I'm not his biggest fan but, with his stats, to not put Hamilton up there is ignorant.

2000 - McLaren and Ferrari had an equal fight. McLaren still had the best raw pace. Ferrari did not have bespoke tyres until 2001.

Great scrap !

[neverlifted]

2007- $100 million fine- weren't 4 cars ahem perhaps a little equal?!

Anyway what Lewis achieved in 2007 and 2008 is far more impressive than anything he has achieved post 2013. Even then, post 2016, it is simply too easy, at least Nico made him try a bit!

[paulguitar]

neverlifted said:

2007- $100 million fine- weren't 4 cars ahem perhaps a little equal?!

Anyway what Lewis achieved in 2007 and 2008 is far more impressive than anything he has achieved post 2013. Even then, post 2016, it is simply too easy, at least Nico made him try a bit!

Were you watching in 2018 and 2019? A lot of the time he had an inferior car in those seasons.

[kambites]

paulguitar said:

Were you watching in 2018 and 2019? A lot of the time he had an inferior car in those seasons.

Yeah but they were still a vasstly superior team, even discounting the drivers from the equation.

[neverlifted]

kambites said:

Yeah but they were still a vasstly superior team, even discounting the drivers from the equation.

Agreed. At some races Ferrari were quicker across 2017-2019, but generally Mercedes was the quicker car and definitely the superior team (with better decision-making and reliability).

[M5-911]

Muzzer79 said:

Quite

Let's list the other drivers who have won the WDC and pick out the ones who weren't in the best car.

2016 - Rosberg - Best car
2010-2013 - Vettel - Best car
2009 - Button - Best car (well, for a big chunk of the year)
2007 - Raikkonen - Best car
2005-2006 - Alonso - Best car
2000-2004 - Schumacher - Best car
1998-1999 - Hakkinen - Best car
1997 - Villeneuve - Best car
1996 - Hill - Best car
1995 - Schumacher - 2nd best car
1994 - Schumacher - Best car
1993 - Prost - Best car
1992 - Mansell - Best car
1991 - Senna - Best car

"Best car" is obviously a subjective term but as a clear cut case it's only really Schumacher's '95 WDC that sticks out but, to counter that, I'd also say that Hamilton won in 2008 in not the best car.

Greatness is achieved by a combination of things - right-car-right-time, talent, professionalism, luck, team-work, relative competition, adaptability......I could go on.

Plenty of great drivers have not achieved as much without one or more of those things but the greatest have some of all of them, to varying degrees.

It will forever be debatable as to who was/is the best and I'm not his biggest fan but, with his stats, to not put Hamilton up there is ignorant.

What your post highlights is how few very good drivers were on the starting line during Schumacher best years. He really had to fight 2 good drivers in his prime, Hakkinen and Alonso. He lost 2 to Hakkinen and 2 to Alonso. So basically, he got beaten fare and square.

I think that Brundle mentioned it in the past already.