Lewis Hamilton (Vol. 2)

[vaud]

Wills2 said:

Poor Lewis he's such a figure of fun in the paddock.

7 WDCs
103 Wins
197 Podiums
104 Poles
4650 points

Joining Ferrari for 2025 with hundreds of £ millions in the bank and more to come, where did it all go wrong...

I am an admirer of Lewis, but I also ask the question (as I did of MSC when he returned)... Has Lewis peaked in terms of performance? Full marks for making the leap to Ferrari, but have we seen peak Lewis?

What balance will he need make in terms of racecraft vs absolute speed (as we see with Alonso)?

[HTP99]

Wills2 said:

Poor Lewis he's such a figure of fun in the paddock.

7 WDCs
103 Wins
197 Podiums
104 Poles
4650 points

Joining Ferrari for 2025 with hundreds of £ millions in the bank and more to come, where did it all go wrong...

I know, such a loser, no wonder he is a laughing stock in the paddock.

[nickfrog]

I think maz sounds supremely confident, I kind of admire that although he might end up with egg on his face.

I do think LH has probably peaked but they doesn't mean he had totally forgotten how to win a race.

[HTP99]

vaud said:

I am an admirer of Lewis, but I also ask the question (as I did of MSC when he returned)... Has Lewis peaked in terms of performance? Full marks for making the leap to Ferrari, but have we seen peak Lewis?

What balance will he need make in terms of racecraft vs absolute speed (as we see with Alonso)?

Well last year he was best of the rest, putting in performances that the car shouldn't have given him, we are only 4 races in, his results aren't great thus far, I think he has checked out TBH, looking forward to next year.

[MarkwG]

vaud said:

Wills2 said:

Poor Lewis he's such a figure of fun in the paddock.

7 WDCs
103 Wins
197 Podiums
104 Poles
4650 points

Joining Ferrari for 2025 with hundreds of £ millions in the bank and more to come, where did it all go wrong...

I am an admirer of Lewis, but I also ask the question (as I did of MSC when he returned)... Has Lewis peaked in terms of performance? Full marks for making the leap to Ferrari, but have we seen peak Lewis?

What balance will he need make in terms of racecraft vs absolute speed (as we see with Alonso)?

That's a reasonable question to ask: in the current Mercedes I suspect the answer isn't going to be clear for some time. Looking at the previous couple of seasons, he's got the most available from the car & team, & beaten his teammate, who should be on a rising curve anyway. His race craft has rarely been an issue, fighting in the cheap seats should be adding more refinement to that, (although also more risk) which he can carry into the Ferrari next year. Time will tell, I guess.

[maz8062]

Wills2 said:

Poor Lewis he's such a figure of fun in the paddock.

7 WDCs
103 Wins
197 Podiums
104 Poles
4650 points

Joining Ferrari for 2025 with hundreds of £ millions in the bank and more to come, where did it all go wrong...

LH will not be a figure of fun provided he times his exit to leave on a high. This really isn’t rocket science nor is it questioning his hall of fame position in F1. My point is that announcing the move to Ferrari at the beginning of the season was/is a dumb move and risks all manner of ridicule to come his way over the next 20 races. A lot of you disagree as some disagreed when I forecasted the same for Vettel and Ricci, but that is fine as no one on the internet is ever right.

My opinion still stands and I’m nigh on certain that unless LH turns this around quickly he’ll be in for a very rough time over the coming next 6/7 months.

[MarkwG]

maz8062 said:

Wills2 said:

Poor Lewis he's such a figure of fun in the paddock.

7 WDCs
103 Wins
197 Podiums
104 Poles
4650 points

Joining Ferrari for 2025 with hundreds of £ millions in the bank and more to come, where did it all go wrong...

LH will not be a figure of fun provided he times his exit to leave on a high. This really isn’t rocket science nor is it questioning his hall of fame position in F1. My point is that announcing the move to Ferrari at the beginning of the season was/is a dumb move and risks all manner of ridicule to come his way over the next 20 races. A lot of you disagree as some disagreed when I forecasted the same for Vettel and Ricci, but that is fine as no one on the internet is ever right.

My opinion still stands and I’m nigh on certain that unless LH turns this around quickly he’ll be in for a very rough time over the coming next 6/7 months.

You've acknowledged it's just your opinion then: you've also offered no evidence anyone else is stating that, compared to the majority on here who seem to think that's just you. Incidentally, no-one I know or read, or who's opinion holds any value, says Vettel or Ricciardo are figures of fun either. The last person I can recall who earned that accolade was Roman Grojean, & he grew out of it years ago. You admit to watching F1 since 2007 - my sons been watching longer than that, & whilst acknowledging since 2021 Hamilton has had a rough ride, doesn't see that as tarnishing him at all: if anything, he's grown in admiration for a driver who hasn't walked away, as per Nico Rosberg, or descended into petulance, as Vettel tended to

Edited by MarkwG on Wednesday 10th April 10:09

[simon_harris]

How far in advance did he announce the move to Merc?

In lewis's shoes I would be planning on an "easy" year to save myself for a tough first year at Ferrari.

[vaud]

simon_harris said:

In lewis's shoes I would be planning on an "easy" year to save myself for a tough first year at Ferrari.

I don't think that applies to F1 drivers. They are all striving 100% for a win. I don't think they can switch off, let alone for a year.

[deadslow]

HTP99 said:

vaud said:

I am an admirer of Lewis, but I also ask the question (as I did of MSC when he returned)... Has Lewis peaked in terms of performance? Full marks for making the leap to Ferrari, but have we seen peak Lewis?

What balance will he need make in terms of racecraft vs absolute speed (as we see with Alonso)?

Well last year he was best of the rest, putting in performances that the car shouldn't have given him, we are only 4 races in, his results aren't great thus far, I think he has checked out TBH, looking forward to next year.

I think he looks past his best recently, but give him a sniff of a winning car and, like Alonso, he will be revitalised. No doubt.

[Wills2]

maz8062 said:

Wills2 said:

Poor Lewis he's such a figure of fun in the paddock.

7 WDCs
103 Wins
197 Podiums
104 Poles
4650 points

Joining Ferrari for 2025 with hundreds of £ millions in the bank and more to come, where did it all go wrong...

LH will not be a figure of fun provided he times his exit to leave on a high. This really isn’t rocket science nor is it questioning his hall of fame position in F1. My point is that announcing the move to Ferrari at the beginning of the season was/is a dumb move and risks all manner of ridicule to come his way over the next 20 races. A lot of you disagree as some disagreed when I forecasted the same for Vettel and Ricci, but that is fine as no one on the internet is ever right.

My opinion still stands and I’m nigh on certain that unless LH turns this around quickly he’ll be in for a very rough time over the coming next 6/7 months.

Well it's your opinion and you're welcome to it, but I'm struggling to attach your minestrone of words to reality.

[simon_harris]

vaud said:

simon_harris said:

In lewis's shoes I would be planning on an "easy" year to save myself for a tough first year at Ferrari.

I don't think that applies to F1 drivers. They are all striving 100% for a win. I don't think they can switch off, let alone for a year.

This is why I am not an F1 driver

[maz8062]

MarkwG said:

You've acknowledged it's just your opinion then: you've also offered no evidence anyone else is stating that, compared to the majority on here who seem to think that's just you. Incidentally, no-one I know or read, or who's opinion holds any value, says Vettel or Ricciardo are figures of fun either. The last person I can recall who earned that accolade was Roman Grojean, & he grew out of it years ago. You admit to watching F1 since 2007 - my sons been watching longer than that, & whilst acknowledging since 2021 Hamilton has had a rough ride, doesn't see that as tarnishing him at all: if anything, he's grown in admiration for a driver who hasn't walked away, as per Nico Rosberg, or descended into petulance, as Vettel tended to

Edited by MarkwG on Wednesday 10th April 10:09

Figure of fun is subjective. To me, commentators calling for Lawson to replace Ricci part way through the season is disrespectful to Ricci. Poking fun. Likewise LH having to respond to endless questions about his form and the Ferrari performance against the Merc is, in my view, poking fun.

I’ve been watching F1 since the early 80’s when Piquet was driving a Brabham, Senna a Toleman etc. 40 years of watching F1. In all that time I’ve never seen a WDC suffer the ignominy of losing convincingly to a young whipper snapper and then making the switch to a new team and recovering form, especially in their twilight years. (Vettel/Ricci and Alonso/LH was not twilight years for the WDC’s involved) It’ll take an almighty effort which LH has in him for sure, but history or my history watching F1 would say otherwise.

Thus, for me, I think LH made a mistake in announcing the move this early. It’ll be a distraction. It is a distraction. It’ll mean that the team focuses on GR, the “team leader.” It’ll mean that some will question Ferrari’s investment in what may appear to be a washed up driver. Therefore unless he can turn his form around, Merc have an interest in seeing him performing, it will get harder and more toxic as the season progresses.

[nickfrog]

Doubling down on the confidence there maz, I like it. You'd better be right.

[Siao]

Wills2 said:

maz8062 said:

Wills2 said:

Poor Lewis he's such a figure of fun in the paddock.

7 WDCs
103 Wins
197 Podiums
104 Poles
4650 points

Joining Ferrari for 2025 with hundreds of £ millions in the bank and more to come, where did it all go wrong...

LH will not be a figure of fun provided he times his exit to leave on a high. This really isn’t rocket science nor is it questioning his hall of fame position in F1. My point is that announcing the move to Ferrari at the beginning of the season was/is a dumb move and risks all manner of ridicule to come his way over the next 20 races. A lot of you disagree as some disagreed when I forecasted the same for Vettel and Ricci, but that is fine as no one on the internet is ever right.

My opinion still stands and I’m nigh on certain that unless LH turns this around quickly he’ll be in for a very rough time over the coming next 6/7 months.

Well it's your opinion and you're welcome to it, but I'm struggling to attach your minestrone of words to reality.

I also think that your post is slightly wrong, as I don't think anyone in the paddock is making fun of Lewis because of what he has achieved already, it is pointless to list his CV. I do think, however, that people that question this move are thinking the only unpredictable factor here; Ferrari. The team that has a race strategy drawn by toddlers and sometimes operates in ways fitting a Benny Hill episode...

Obviously Lewis has nothing to lose with this move, he gets paid mega bucks and goes to the most historic team in the world. I'd love it if Lewis went to Ferrari and got the team organised. It would be a win-win obviously, and more so for the sport if Lewis gets his hands in a car capable of challenging for wins. So here's to hoping!

[BigBen]

maz8062 said:

I’ve been watching F1 since the early 80’s when Piquet was driving a Brabham, Senna a Toleman etc. 40 years of watching F1. In all that time I’ve never seen a WDC suffer the ignominy of losing convincingly to a young whipper snapper and then making the switch to a new team and recovering form, especially in their twilight years. (Vettel/Ricci and Alonso/LH was not twilight years for the WDC’s involved) It’ll take an almighty effort which LH has in him for sure, but history or my history watching F1 would say otherwise.

I don't agree with the losing to a young whipper snapper is what we have seen so far with LH/GR. Certainly he was beaten two years ago but it can't have escaped anyone's notice that irregardless of 'experimental set ups' and other theories GR was much luckier with safety cars on his way to his marginal points win. Last year speaks for itself and this year remains to be seen (last race notwithstanding)

[maz8062]

BigBen said:

maz8062 said:

I’ve been watching F1 since the early 80’s when Piquet was driving a Brabham, Senna a Toleman etc. 40 years of watching F1. In all that time I’ve never seen a WDC suffer the ignominy of losing convincingly to a young whipper snapper and then making the switch to a new team and recovering form, especially in their twilight years. (Vettel/Ricci and Alonso/LH was not twilight years for the WDC’s involved) It’ll take an almighty effort which LH has in him for sure, but history or my history watching F1 would say otherwise.

I don't agree with the losing to a young whipper snapper is what we have seen so far with LH/GR. Certainly he was beaten two years ago but it can't have escaped anyone's notice that irregardless of 'experimental set ups' and other theories GR was much luckier with safety cars on his way to his marginal points win. Last year speaks for itself and this year remains to be seen (last race notwithstanding)

I’ll give you an example of a whipper snapper up against a WDC. Mika and Senna in the McLAren. Mika, who went on to be a multiple WDC and top driver, had the temerity to out qualify Senna. Senna had a melt down. Old school F1 drivers were very precious about their legacy. Even Piquet when paired with MS for a brief period had to pull out the stops to beat MS when they were at Bennetton together and then retired.

If GR out points LH in 2024 he’d have done so in 2 out of 3 seasons together. That means something even if it’s just for the also ran positions. Ask Button how he faired against LH and you’ll need to get your calculator out. Some don’t care about things like that but the F1 drivers of old used to and it was part of their mystic as the best drivers in the world - they couldn’t be beaten.

[maz8062]

BigBen said:

maz8062 said:

I’ve been watching F1 since the early 80’s when Piquet was driving a Brabham, Senna a Toleman etc. 40 years of watching F1. In all that time I’ve never seen a WDC suffer the ignominy of losing convincingly to a young whipper snapper and then making the switch to a new team and recovering form, especially in their twilight years. (Vettel/Ricci and Alonso/LH was not twilight years for the WDC’s involved) It’ll take an almighty effort which LH has in him for sure, but history or my history watching F1 would say otherwise.

I don't agree with the losing to a young whipper snapper is what we have seen so far with LH/GR. Certainly he was beaten two years ago but it can't have escaped anyone's notice that irregardless of 'experimental set ups' and other theories GR was much luckier with safety cars on his way to his marginal points win. Last year speaks for itself and this year remains to be seen (last race notwithstanding)

I’ll give you an example of a whipper snapper up against a WDC. Mika and Senna in the McLAren. Mika, who went on to be a multiple WDC and top driver, had the temerity to out qualify Senna. Senna had a melt down. Old school F1 drivers were very precious about their legacy. Even Piquet when paired with MS for a brief period had to pull out the stops to beat MS when they were at Bennetton together and then retired.

If GR out points LH in 2024 he’d have done so in 2 out of 3 seasons together. That means something even if it’s just for the also ran positions. Ask Button how he faired against LH and you’ll need to get your calculator out. Some don’t care about things like that but the F1 drivers of old used to and it was part of their mystic as the best drivers in the world - they couldn’t be beaten.

[paulguitar]

maz8062 said:

Even Piquet when paired with MS for a brief period had to pull out the stops to beat MS when they were at Bennetton together and then retired.

Schumacher only did 6 races, during which he completely outperformed Piquet.


ETA Summary here:


https://f1.fandom.com/wiki/1991_Michael_Schumacher...

Edited by paulguitar on Wednesday 10th April 12:47

[Sandpit Steve]

maz8062 said:

I’ll give you an example of a whipper snapper up against a WDC. Mika and Senna in the McLAren. Mika, who went on to be a multiple WDC and top driver, had the temerity to out qualify Senna. Senna had a melt down. Old school F1 drivers were very precious about their legacy. Even Piquet when paired with MS for a brief period had to pull out the stops to beat MS when they were at Bennetton together and then retired.

If GR out points LH in 2024 he’d have done so in 2 out of 3 seasons together. That means something even if it’s just for the also ran positions. Ask Button how he faired against LH and you’ll need to get your calculator out. Some don’t care about things like that but the F1 drivers of old used to and it was part of their mystic as the best drivers in the world - they couldn’t be beaten.

Lewis’ record against team mates is 14-3, which I think speaks for itself.

Champion Button got him once, champion Nico Rosberg got him once, and he did a development season in 2022 when Russell took the optimum setup, which then paid off in spades in ‘23.

Trying to write him out of ‘24 already, only four races in, is totally disingenuous. He’ll be more eager than ever to improve his position, even if he knows he’s moving on to a new challenge next season. Of course he wants to go out on a high, after the longest and most successful ever driver/team relationship.