Lewis Hamilton (Vol. 2)
Discussion
vaud said:
simon_harris said:
In lewis's shoes I would be planning on an "easy" year to save myself for a tough first year at Ferrari.
I don't think that applies to F1 drivers. They are all striving 100% for a win. I don't think they can switch off, let alone for a year.Maybe he's not giving Merc quite as much feedback in terms of improvement of the car as they will be his competitor next year and that's being seen as doesn't care.
paulguitar said:
maz8062 said:
Even Piquet when paired with MS for a brief period had to pull out the stops to beat MS when they were at Bennetton together and then retired.
Schumacher only did 6 races, during which he completely outperformed Piquet.I think he realised that it was time to retire.
maz8062 said:
BigBen said:
maz8062 said:
I’ve been watching F1 since the early 80’s when Piquet was driving a Brabham, Senna a Toleman etc. 40 years of watching F1. In all that time I’ve never seen a WDC suffer the ignominy of losing convincingly to a young whipper snapper and then making the switch to a new team and recovering form, especially in their twilight years. (Vettel/Ricci and Alonso/LH was not twilight years for the WDC’s involved) It’ll take an almighty effort which LH has in him for sure, but history or my history watching F1 would say otherwise.
I don't agree with the losing to a young whipper snapper is what we have seen so far with LH/GR. Certainly he was beaten two years ago but it can't have escaped anyone's notice that irregardless of 'experimental set ups' and other theories GR was much luckier with safety cars on his way to his marginal points win. Last year speaks for itself and this year remains to be seen (last race notwithstanding) If GR out points LH in 2024 he’d have done so in 2 out of 3 seasons together. That means something even if it’s just for the also ran positions. Ask Button how he faired against LH and you’ll need to get your calculator out. Some don’t care about things like that but the F1 drivers of old used to and it was part of their mystic as the best drivers in the world - they couldn’t be beaten.
In context , Hakkinen was McLaren's test driver and knew the MP4/8 like the back of his hand , it was a superb achievement as a rookie
I think the quote came from from Motorsport interview at the time ‘Mika, what did you do?’ And I said, ‘Ayrton, it’s balls,’ and he went berserk, got really upset with me.
“I was shocked, tried to explain to him that it was a joke, and that of course I respected him for everything that he had achieved but also that we needed some humour.”
from recollection they were good team mates for the short 3 races they spent together before Senna moved to Williams in 94. Hakkinen commented he learnt a lot from Senna in those races
As a note on qualifying in 1993
The Williams FW15C driven by Prost/ Hill was considered the most technologically advanced car of all time designed by Adrian Newey of the 16 races , Prost put it on pole 13 times , Hill twice ... ironically in Portugal , which speaks volumes .
The only other driver to get pole in 1993 was Senna in Australia .... Which he then went on to win which was remarkable ..it would be his last victory
Edited by Purosangue on Wednesday 10th April 12:27
Dermot O'Logical said:
paulguitar said:
maz8062 said:
Even Piquet when paired with MS for a brief period had to pull out the stops to beat MS when they were at Bennetton together and then retired.
Schumacher only did 6 races, during which he completely outperformed Piquet.I think he realised that it was time to retire.
Solid money back then!
All this talk of drivers of old hanging up their gloves after they won and they know their time up, I dont see the relevance. Time has moved on and careers have more length in them now, in motorsport and other sports. We can look at more recent drivers to see they continued on racing hill, schumi, alonso, vettel. I dont have an issue with it.
I don't expect Lewis to win another championship. I'd like to see it but I don't expect it to happen unless fezza pull something strong out of the bag with the regs shake up. The odds would favour red bull at this stage but I suspect there is some kind of time bomb in that team with max Jos and horner but we shall see.
Lewis maybe could have kept it quiet about leaving but I think he's honest and was being honest. It's probably going to be a bit of a s
tty year but he will be focused on the future in all forms. Is he washed up? Not at present but I would think he has peaked but still has the potential given the opportunity.
I for one am excited about it as it will give a new dynamic and something to pay attention to as a brit rather than the certainty at the very front which is... boring no matter who it is. I lost interest in previous domination and this one is even more so.
With Ferrari a lot of drivers want to drive for them and did it so if the chance came up why not. Going to ferrari is a gamble but merc aren't exactly providing winning wheels at the moment. I'd also add that being in a ferrari opens more doors for the future on top of his merc links. Sports cars, prototypes at a minimum will be at his feet and we saw how le mans went last year. Ferrari may well be taking learnings from prototypes across ahead of the shake up who knows.
I don't expect Lewis to win another championship. I'd like to see it but I don't expect it to happen unless fezza pull something strong out of the bag with the regs shake up. The odds would favour red bull at this stage but I suspect there is some kind of time bomb in that team with max Jos and horner but we shall see.
Lewis maybe could have kept it quiet about leaving but I think he's honest and was being honest. It's probably going to be a bit of a s
tty year but he will be focused on the future in all forms. Is he washed up? Not at present but I would think he has peaked but still has the potential given the opportunity.I for one am excited about it as it will give a new dynamic and something to pay attention to as a brit rather than the certainty at the very front which is... boring no matter who it is. I lost interest in previous domination and this one is even more so.
With Ferrari a lot of drivers want to drive for them and did it so if the chance came up why not. Going to ferrari is a gamble but merc aren't exactly providing winning wheels at the moment. I'd also add that being in a ferrari opens more doors for the future on top of his merc links. Sports cars, prototypes at a minimum will be at his feet and we saw how le mans went last year. Ferrari may well be taking learnings from prototypes across ahead of the shake up who knows.
Purosangue said:
Portugal 1993
In context , Hakkinen was McLaren's test driver and knew the MP4/8 like the back of his hand , it was a superb achievement as a rookie
I think the quote came from from Motorsport interview at the time ‘Mika, what did you do?’ And I said, ‘Ayrton, it’s balls,’ and he went berserk, got really upset with me.
“I was shocked, tried to explain to him that it was a joke, and that of course I respected him for everything that he had achieved but also that we needed some humour.”
from recollection they were good team mates for the short 3 races they spent together before Senna moved to Williams in 94. Hakkinen commented he learnt a lot from Senna in those races
As a note on qualifying in 1993
The Williams FW15C driven by Prost/ Hill was considered the most technologically advanced car of all time designed by Adrian Newey of the 16 races , Prost put it on pole 13 times , Hill twice ... ironically in Portugal , which speaks volumes .
The only other driver to get pole in 1993 was Senna in Australia .... Which he then went on to win which was remarkable ..it would be his last victory
Mika was far from a 'Rookie' in 1993 though he'd had 2 years at Lotus. Still a heck of an achievement don't get me wrong but he wasn't a rookie.In context , Hakkinen was McLaren's test driver and knew the MP4/8 like the back of his hand , it was a superb achievement as a rookie
I think the quote came from from Motorsport interview at the time ‘Mika, what did you do?’ And I said, ‘Ayrton, it’s balls,’ and he went berserk, got really upset with me.
“I was shocked, tried to explain to him that it was a joke, and that of course I respected him for everything that he had achieved but also that we needed some humour.”
from recollection they were good team mates for the short 3 races they spent together before Senna moved to Williams in 94. Hakkinen commented he learnt a lot from Senna in those races
As a note on qualifying in 1993
The Williams FW15C driven by Prost/ Hill was considered the most technologically advanced car of all time designed by Adrian Newey of the 16 races , Prost put it on pole 13 times , Hill twice ... ironically in Portugal , which speaks volumes .
The only other driver to get pole in 1993 was Senna in Australia .... Which he then went on to win which was remarkable ..it would be his last victory
Edited by Purosangue on Wednesday 10th April 12:27
Edited to add the fact that Mika's two wins out of two entries in the Porsche Supercup was an extraordinary achievement!
Edited by blackmme on Wednesday 10th April 12:48
maz8062 said:
Look back over the history of F1 and you will see practically zero occurrences where a WDC is being consistently beaten by their younger team mate and you won’t see a recovery in their form especially if they are in the twilight of their career. It simply doesn’t happen, from Hill at Jordan, Vettel at Ferrari, Piquet at Bennetton etc. These guys knew when the writing was in the wall and stepped away from it rather than sully their legacy. it is for this reason that I predict a fractious end to the LH/Merc relationship if things don’t improve.
My bold. You consider 3 races to be 'consistent'? That is precisely 12.5% of the races that this season will hold. I suspect you have a remarkable ability to project your wishes into some sort of local to you reality.Harry H said:
Maybe he's not giving Merc quite as much feedback in terms of improvement of the car as they will be his competitor next year and that's being seen as doesn't care.
Given merc are going backward wrt to where they are compared to other teams since 2022, perhaps they won’t really be missing all that much from his feedback either…isaldiri said:
Harry H said:
Maybe he's not giving Merc quite as much feedback in terms of improvement of the car as they will be his competitor next year and that's being seen as doesn't care.
Given merc are going backward wrt to where they are compared to other teams since 2022, perhaps they won’t really be missing all that much from his feedback either…isaldiri said:
Given merc are going backward wrt to where they are compared to other teams since 2022, perhaps they won’t really be missing all that much from his feedback either…
Merc has fundamental issues with this set of regs. They don't understand their car, and they are not sure whether the problem is car-related or how the wind tunnel and other areas correlate with the data. Insinuating it's down to driver feedback is a bit silly.White-Noise said:
isaldiri said:
Harry H said:
Maybe he's not giving Merc quite as much feedback in terms of improvement of the car as they will be his competitor next year and that's being seen as doesn't care.
Given merc are going backward wrt to where they are compared to other teams since 2022, perhaps they won’t really be missing all that much from his feedback either…deadslow said:
White-Noise said:
isaldiri said:
Harry H said:
Maybe he's not giving Merc quite as much feedback in terms of improvement of the car as they will be his competitor next year and that's being seen as doesn't care.
Given merc are going backward wrt to where they are compared to other teams since 2022, perhaps they won’t really be missing all that much from his feedback either…While I think he is probably past his peak in terms of raw speed, a rejuvenated Hamilton in a new team with a competitive car will still be a force to be reckoned with, and I wouldn't bet against him making a strong bid for another title given the right circumstances.
Nova Gyna said:
deadslow said:
White-Noise said:
isaldiri said:
Harry H said:
Maybe he's not giving Merc quite as much feedback in terms of improvement of the car as they will be his competitor next year and that's being seen as doesn't care.
Given merc are going backward wrt to where they are compared to other teams since 2022, perhaps they won’t really be missing all that much from his feedback either…I think that there also may be some thinking that Lewis will not be giving as much feedback aas he could as he may not wish for MB to be in the fight with Ferrari next year. Not sure whether that is true or not, as Lewis seems reasonably comfortable with his time with MB and his prospects moving forward, but you never know.
Nova Gyna said:
While I think he is probably past his peak in terms of raw speed, a rejuvenated Hamilton in a new team with a competitive car will still be a force to be reckoned with, and I wouldn't bet against him making a strong bid for another title given the right circumstances.
I agree. nickfrog said:
deadslow said:
Merc probably know Lewis as well as anyone and they decided to reject/failed to value his input.
I don't think they did anything of the sort. I don't need to know you to decide to reject/fail to value your input as the anti-LH narrative is obvious.I’ve always thought it an anomaly that a car can be designed in one way or t’other when you have one driver at 6”1 the other 5’7. Also if the current car is designed around LH’s preferences how can GR be quicker in it than LH? In the end the team will design what they believe to be the quickest car and expect both drivers to get the best out of it. Simples.
Merc were always going to be caught between a rock and hard place when deciding on whether to extend Valteri’s contract or sign GR. They signed GR, lost Valteri, will lose LH and are now the 4/5th fastest team in F1. Coincidence? You decide.
Merc were always going to be caught between a rock and hard place when deciding on whether to extend Valteri’s contract or sign GR. They signed GR, lost Valteri, will lose LH and are now the 4/5th fastest team in F1. Coincidence? You decide.
Siao said:
Wills2 said:
maz8062 said:
Wills2 said:
Poor Lewis he's such a figure of fun in the paddock.
7 WDCs
103 Wins
197 Podiums
104 Poles
4650 points
Joining Ferrari for 2025 with hundreds of £ millions in the bank and more to come, where did it all go wrong...
LH will not be a figure of fun provided he times his exit to leave on a high. This really isn’t rocket science nor is it questioning his hall of fame position in F1. My point is that announcing the move to Ferrari at the beginning of the season was/is a dumb move and risks all manner of ridicule to come his way over the next 20 races. A lot of you disagree as some disagreed when I forecasted the same for Vettel and Ricci, but that is fine as no one on the internet is ever right.7 WDCs
103 Wins
197 Podiums
104 Poles
4650 points
Joining Ferrari for 2025 with hundreds of £ millions in the bank and more to come, where did it all go wrong...
My opinion still stands and I’m nigh on certain that unless LH turns this around quickly he’ll be in for a very rough time over the coming next 6/7 months.
Obviously Lewis has nothing to lose with this move, he gets paid mega bucks and goes to the most historic team in the world. I'd love it if Lewis went to Ferrari and got the team organised. It would be a win-win obviously, and more so for the sport if Lewis gets his hands in a car capable of challenging for wins. So here's to hoping!
Nowt as queer as folk as say.
maz8062 said:
I’ve never seen a WDC suffer the ignominy of losing convincingly to a young whipper snapper and then making the switch to a new team and recovering form, especially in their twilight years. (Vettel/Ricci and Alonso/LH was not twilight years for the WDC’s involved) It’ll take an almighty effort which LH has in him for sure, but history or my history watching F1 would say otherwise.
Thus, for me, I think LH made a mistake in announcing the move this early. It’ll be a distraction. It is a distraction. It’ll mean that the team focuses on GR, the “team leader.” It’ll mean that some will question Ferrari’s investment in what may appear to be a washed up driver. Therefore unless he can turn his form around, Merc have an interest in seeing him performing, it will get harder and more toxic as the season progresses.
It's not like LH's powers have waned to Ricciardo proportions, has it?Thus, for me, I think LH made a mistake in announcing the move this early. It’ll be a distraction. It is a distraction. It’ll mean that the team focuses on GR, the “team leader.” It’ll mean that some will question Ferrari’s investment in what may appear to be a washed up driver. Therefore unless he can turn his form around, Merc have an interest in seeing him performing, it will get harder and more toxic as the season progresses.
There's no right way with announcing movements away from a team
Announce later the speculation over his Merc/F1 future still continues in the intervening time.
There's clearly no 2024 performance clause so Lewis is free to do as he please.
Someone suggested 2024 as a year out. That is totally unprofessional IMO. You take sabbatical because you've upset the management to the extent of being kicked out or waning desire and retirement.
I think he has done the right thing and being respectful to Merc and Sainz (hopefully less worry than if it was announced in the summer) and probably other (business?) reasons we are not privy to.
maz8062 said:
Merc were always going to be caught between a rock and hard place when deciding on whether to extend Valteri’s contract or sign GR. They signed GR, lost Valteri, You decide.
losing a "Journey man" like Bottas and swapping for GR was a very smart decision , I very much doubt Bottas will be lining the grid in 2025 maz8062 said:
I’ve always thought it an anomaly that a car can be designed in one way or t’other when you have one driver at 6”1 the other 5’7. Also if the current car is designed around LH’s preferences how can GR be quicker in it than LH? In the end the team will design what they believe to be the quickest car and expect both drivers to get the best out of it. Simples.
Merc were always going to be caught between a rock and hard place when deciding on whether to extend Valteri’s contract or sign GR. They signed GR, lost Valteri, will lose LH and are now the 4/5th fastest team in F1. Coincidence? You decide.
Mercedes are slow because they do not understand the ground effect regulations as well as the other top teams. Merc were always going to be caught between a rock and hard place when deciding on whether to extend Valteri’s contract or sign GR. They signed GR, lost Valteri, will lose LH and are now the 4/5th fastest team in F1. Coincidence? You decide.
And since you seem to base your very strong opinions mostly on stuff that happened 10 minutes ago, Hamilton was faster in Japan quali than Russel by a fairly chunky margin. He then made up a big haul of time after the last pitstops to be close behind at the end, with a damaged car.
Yes, he's had a sluggish start to the season, but to say you're overreacting is something of an understatement, and claims he is being widely laughed at are completely ludicrous.
f
k knows what you would have made of Graham Hill's later career. Or Michael Schumacher's.Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff