Honda to leave F1
Discussion
citizensm1th said:
Piginapoke said:
I guess RB leaving the sport is the most likely outcome of this.
One can only hopeRB have been far more committed than most, remember BMW, Toyota, Honda (twice) Porsche, Yamaha.
They all came and went and left no mark, at least RedBull take it seriously and don’t roll over when it gets tough.
Be careful what you wish for, there are only so many Lawrence Strolls about.
vaud said:
Muzzer79 said:
Honda's engine facility is in Milton Keynes, a few miles from Red Bull's factory.
Just TUPE the staff over and stick a new sign up (simplistically speaking)
Is everything done there? I thought they were built there but a lot of R&D was still in Japan.Just TUPE the staff over and stick a new sign up (simplistically speaking)
Muzzer79 said:
LP670 said:
time to get rid of all the hybrid and computer tech on f1 cars and go back to screaming engines and manual gearboxes.
The way forward is never to go backwards.Nobody who attends Grands Prix is ever going to look back and say "ahh remember those hybrids, those were the days".
It’s not a given that Honda will sell their I.P. When they withdrew their race team they were were not looking for somebody to continue the effort, they were going to draw a line under it. Maybe a cultural thing?
The engine tech is much more sensitive than their chassis and aero for 2009.
Red Bull and Alpha Tauri have an opportunity to split their strategy, gestate a new engine project in the junior team and stick the proven Renault unit in the lead team.
Red Bull / Renault relations were always tested but it was an outwardly dysfunctional marriage which actually worked well for both.
Mercedes and Ferrari have both already refused to supply Red Bull. I can’t imagine they would change their minds. That said it would be a major power play for Mercedes to supply Red Bull with engines and beat them anyway. I wouldn’t actually put it past them. They’d say that they welcomed the challenge and it would drive them to be stronger or whatever. Mercedes would have to get rid of one of their other customers though. Williams Renault has been talked about, as has an Aston Martin power unit.
I doubt F1 ‘the sport’ has the firepower to deliver its own ‘global’ engine so unless Honda transition into something else or another manufacturer has been planning to come in, we are down to three engine manufacturers for some years to come.
The engine tech is much more sensitive than their chassis and aero for 2009.
Red Bull and Alpha Tauri have an opportunity to split their strategy, gestate a new engine project in the junior team and stick the proven Renault unit in the lead team.
Red Bull / Renault relations were always tested but it was an outwardly dysfunctional marriage which actually worked well for both.
Mercedes and Ferrari have both already refused to supply Red Bull. I can’t imagine they would change their minds. That said it would be a major power play for Mercedes to supply Red Bull with engines and beat them anyway. I wouldn’t actually put it past them. They’d say that they welcomed the challenge and it would drive them to be stronger or whatever. Mercedes would have to get rid of one of their other customers though. Williams Renault has been talked about, as has an Aston Martin power unit.
I doubt F1 ‘the sport’ has the firepower to deliver its own ‘global’ engine so unless Honda transition into something else or another manufacturer has been planning to come in, we are down to three engine manufacturers for some years to come.
vaud said:
Muzzer79 said:
Unless something catastrophic happens, key suppliers don't just exit like this without warning.
Honda did last time (though that was caused by the financial crash) with no warning just after the end of the season. Honda will have given Red Bull the heads up before they signed up to the sport around 6 weeks ago. Red Bull's statement would have been a lot more bitter if they hadn't.
dr_gn said:
Muzzer79 said:
LP670 said:
time to get rid of all the hybrid and computer tech on f1 cars and go back to screaming engines and manual gearboxes.
The way forward is never to go backwards.Nobody who attends Grands Prix is ever going to look back and say "ahh remember those hybrids, those were the days".
We may well be looking back reminiscing about the days when we had to rely on batteries and ICEs.
If you want V12s and manual gearboxes, watch classic F1 or the BOSS series. Don't expect the modern sport to be retro.
Of course; the modern sport has a responsibility with it's new toys to still be entertaining, which has been lacking recently, but that is a fault of the regs and not the technology.
vaud said:
Muzzer79 said:
Honda's engine facility is in Milton Keynes, a few miles from Red Bull's factory.
Just TUPE the staff over and stick a new sign up (simplistically speaking)
Is everything done there? I thought they were built there but a lot of R&D was still in Japan.Just TUPE the staff over and stick a new sign up (simplistically speaking)
So for a years stop gap, it might well work. Just keep turning the handle.
Muzzer79 said:
dr_gn said:
Muzzer79 said:
LP670 said:
time to get rid of all the hybrid and computer tech on f1 cars and go back to screaming engines and manual gearboxes.
The way forward is never to go backwards.Nobody who attends Grands Prix is ever going to look back and say "ahh remember those hybrids, those were the days".
Classic F1 is irrelevant.
Exige77 said:
citizensm1th said:
Jinba Ittai said:
What will be interesting is how this effects Hamilton's contract bargaining position. Suddenly, Max is going to be very keen to jump ship to Mercedes, which will weaken Hamilton's position significantly. He won't agree to a one year deal, so do Mercedes go for a Max/Lewis dream team from 2022? Show Lewis the door and get Max alongside Russell for 2022? Or does Lewis walk away at the end of the year having won his seventh world title? Possibly buy Max out of the last year of his RB contract?
A lot of wishful thinking right there Dream team for who ? Certainly not for Mercedes .
Jinba Ittai said:
Exige77 said:
citizensm1th said:
Jinba Ittai said:
What will be interesting is how this effects Hamilton's contract bargaining position. Suddenly, Max is going to be very keen to jump ship to Mercedes, which will weaken Hamilton's position significantly. He won't agree to a one year deal, so do Mercedes go for a Max/Lewis dream team from 2022? Show Lewis the door and get Max alongside Russell for 2022? Or does Lewis walk away at the end of the year having won his seventh world title? Possibly buy Max out of the last year of his RB contract?
A lot of wishful thinking right there Dream team for who ? Certainly not for Mercedes .
dr_gn said:
Muzzer79 said:
dr_gn said:
Muzzer79 said:
LP670 said:
time to get rid of all the hybrid and computer tech on f1 cars and go back to screaming engines and manual gearboxes.
The way forward is never to go backwards.Nobody who attends Grands Prix is ever going to look back and say "ahh remember those hybrids, those were the days".
Classic F1 is irrelevant.
No modern manufacturer will invest in a sport that requires old-tech V8's, V10's or V12's. That's just not relevant for them anymore. You'd have a spec engine or something static in terms of development.
Like them or not; without engine manufacturers, you don't have F1.
Anyway, we digress.
HustleRussell said:
The dinosaurs have an abundance of choice, doubtless they are gracing S5000, Boss series with their eyeballs already, I don’t see why technological progress should be stopped in Grands Prix racing after nearly 100 years.
why ban CVTs, double clutch gearboxes, active suspension, traction control, abs, ground effect skirts, fan cars etc? because it ruins the spectacle id say, nothing to do with being dinosaurs. change the regs so the engines sound like racing cars and not hoovers, and manual gearboxes so the drivers have to work harder. the teams can still develop these solutions till the cows come home.Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff