Honda to leave F1
Discussion
Honda pulling out will be felt right down through the sport.
The days of being able to achieve cost effective solutions through clever engineering have long gone (some might argue they were never really there in the first place). You cant just expect Cosworth to come back and produce a DFV for the 2020s. Hell, even in 2010 they couldn't produce a competitive engine, and the current units are light years away from those. When the costs of engine technology not sustainable even for a company like Honda, you really have to wonder what return other manufacturers would see.
When you look at the rumoured teams that have questioned if they will be in F1 over the next 5-10 years (Renault - rumoured to be pulling out before staying and switching to Alpine, Haas constantly being questioned, Alfa in money problems again, Williams being sold, Mclaren in a pretty dire financial situation) its not hard to see the house of cards come crashing down.
I've no doubt it'll be built again, they just need regulations and racing that encourages people to watch - and that's going to be the hard thing to balance.
The days of being able to achieve cost effective solutions through clever engineering have long gone (some might argue they were never really there in the first place). You cant just expect Cosworth to come back and produce a DFV for the 2020s. Hell, even in 2010 they couldn't produce a competitive engine, and the current units are light years away from those. When the costs of engine technology not sustainable even for a company like Honda, you really have to wonder what return other manufacturers would see.
When you look at the rumoured teams that have questioned if they will be in F1 over the next 5-10 years (Renault - rumoured to be pulling out before staying and switching to Alpine, Haas constantly being questioned, Alfa in money problems again, Williams being sold, Mclaren in a pretty dire financial situation) its not hard to see the house of cards come crashing down.
I've no doubt it'll be built again, they just need regulations and racing that encourages people to watch - and that's going to be the hard thing to balance.
It has exposed just how quickly the FIA need to publish some sort of road map setting out what F1 is going to become in the future beyond just the 2026 regs. If it doesn't it risks losing more and more manufacturers to Formula E and as soon as EV car sales overtake ICU cars (no matter how long it takes), FE becomes THE most relevant of the two. Nobody will want to enter F1 and it will become obsolete. Whether we as fans want to admit it or not.
If they don't publish that technology road map soon then they don't have a hope in hell of retaining, let alone attracting, manufacturers and new engine suppliers. They will all keep going to the electrified series and past a certain point, F1 won't be able to recover.
Sure, Mercedes are more likely than not to remain as an engine supplier for a number of years even if they do sell the team, but they have made clear just how much the marketing cache factors into their decision to motor race. As soon as F1 loses relevance to FE through increased electric vehicle sales, even them staying as an engine supplier is at risk.
Honda leaving exposes just how quickly the FIA needs to set out this road map for F1. Renault will be next to be considering their position closer to 2026 and with growing perceived relevance of electrified racing, which manufacturer in their right mind would enter F1 and develop drive train technology with declining relevance to it's brand?
If they don't publish that technology road map soon then they don't have a hope in hell of retaining, let alone attracting, manufacturers and new engine suppliers. They will all keep going to the electrified series and past a certain point, F1 won't be able to recover.
Sure, Mercedes are more likely than not to remain as an engine supplier for a number of years even if they do sell the team, but they have made clear just how much the marketing cache factors into their decision to motor race. As soon as F1 loses relevance to FE through increased electric vehicle sales, even them staying as an engine supplier is at risk.
Honda leaving exposes just how quickly the FIA needs to set out this road map for F1. Renault will be next to be considering their position closer to 2026 and with growing perceived relevance of electrified racing, which manufacturer in their right mind would enter F1 and develop drive train technology with declining relevance to it's brand?
LP670 said:
HustleRussell said:
The dinosaurs have an abundance of choice, doubtless they are gracing S5000, Boss series with their eyeballs already, I don’t see why technological progress should be stopped in Grands Prix racing after nearly 100 years.
why ban CVTs, double clutch gearboxes, active suspension, traction control, abs, ground effect skirts, fan cars etc? because it ruins the spectacle id say, nothing to do with being dinosaurs. change the regs so the engines sound like racing cars and not hoovers, and manual gearboxes so the drivers have to work harder. the teams can still develop these solutions till the cows come home.A few years after that, they'll be like a starting handle - prehistoric
You have to look to the future and where it's heading.
If anything, I wonder how long the ICE has left in F1, full-stop.
Old-school people hate that thought, but the young people will just see it as normal.
The absolute key thing is providing a sport that is entertaining to attract those young folk, but doing something 20th century will not be relevant to them so won't be attractive
.
Muzzer79 said:
LP670 said:
HustleRussell said:
The dinosaurs have an abundance of choice, doubtless they are gracing S5000, Boss series with their eyeballs already, I don’t see why technological progress should be stopped in Grands Prix racing after nearly 100 years.
why ban CVTs, double clutch gearboxes, active suspension, traction control, abs, ground effect skirts, fan cars etc? because it ruins the spectacle id say, nothing to do with being dinosaurs. change the regs so the engines sound like racing cars and not hoovers, and manual gearboxes so the drivers have to work harder. the teams can still develop these solutions till the cows come home.A few years after that, they'll be like a starting handle - prehistoric
You have to look to the future and where it's heading.
If anything, I wonder how long the ICE has left in F1, full-stop.
Old-school people hate that thought, but the young people will just see it as normal.
The absolute key thing is providing a sport that is entertaining to attract those young folk, but doing something 20th century will not be relevant to them so won't be attractive
.
LP670 said:
Muzzer79 said:
LP670 said:
HustleRussell said:
The dinosaurs have an abundance of choice, doubtless they are gracing S5000, Boss series with their eyeballs already, I don’t see why technological progress should be stopped in Grands Prix racing after nearly 100 years.
why ban CVTs, double clutch gearboxes, active suspension, traction control, abs, ground effect skirts, fan cars etc? because it ruins the spectacle id say, nothing to do with being dinosaurs. change the regs so the engines sound like racing cars and not hoovers, and manual gearboxes so the drivers have to work harder. the teams can still develop these solutions till the cows come home.A few years after that, they'll be like a starting handle - prehistoric
You have to look to the future and where it's heading.
If anything, I wonder how long the ICE has left in F1, full-stop.
Old-school people hate that thought, but the young people will just see it as normal.
The absolute key thing is providing a sport that is entertaining to attract those young folk, but doing something 20th century will not be relevant to them so won't be attractive
.
LP670 said:
why ban CVTs, double clutch gearboxes, active suspension, traction control, abs, ground effect skirts, fan cars etc? because it ruins the spectacle id say, nothing to do with being dinosaurs. change the regs so the engines sound like racing cars and not hoovers, and manual gearboxes so the drivers have to work harder. the teams can still develop these solutions till the cows come home.
Not even the most basic of junior racing still use manual gear boxes. That really is dinosaur technology as far as racing goes. LP670 said:
you are probably quite correct regarding the ICE and manual boxes, but there is already FE if one is looking at a sport in order to embrace the future, so where does F1 position itself?
In the real world, where pure electric vehicles will not have the answer to all the questions for many years yet.Tyre Smoke said:
Will never happen. The pinnacle of motorsport must be seen to be the most technically innovative and advanced.
Which is FE now, surely? F1 are being pushed towards the FE concept quicker than they are presumably comfortable with, but where else do they go? FE already has more manufacturers on board than F1 and I can't see that trend slowing down any time soon.LP670 said:
why ban CVTs, double clutch gearboxes, active suspension, traction control, abs, ground effect skirts, fan cars etc? because it ruins the spectacle id say, nothing to do with being dinosaurs. change the regs so the engines sound like racing cars and not hoovers, and manual gearboxes so the drivers have to work harder. the teams can still develop these solutions till the cows come home.
Some were about safety. Full ground effect raised cornering speeds and a sudden loss of ground effect would lead to a higher energy crash.If you had all of the above still then the cornering forces would start to exceed what drivers can cope with (and yes they also made of a poorer show as there was less error that a driver could make)
Kraken said:
LP670 said:
why ban CVTs, double clutch gearboxes, active suspension, traction control, abs, ground effect skirts, fan cars etc? because it ruins the spectacle id say, nothing to do with being dinosaurs. change the regs so the engines sound like racing cars and not hoovers, and manual gearboxes so the drivers have to work harder. the teams can still develop these solutions till the cows come home.
Not even the most basic of junior racing still use manual gear boxes. That really is dinosaur technology as far as racing goes. There will be zero or negligible interaction between driver (now passenger) and machine.
Linking racing cars to road car technology has no future.
It has to become a standalone sport for the fun of racing if it is to be interesting for spectators.
Of course that won’t interest the car makers marketing teams but possible others may step in ?
Maybe NA and manual might be the way to go ?
People still race horses and fly old planes ?
AJB88 said:
Deesee said:
Ohh! Max just un followed Red Bull and Honda on social media, Im guessing the news did not go down well!
No he hasn't click on his IG and click who he follows... number 1 is RBRHe doesn't follow Honda Racing F1 though, not sure if he ever did.
dr_gn said:
Muzzer79 said:
LP670 said:
time to get rid of all the hybrid and computer tech on f1 cars and go back to screaming engines and manual gearboxes.
The way forward is never to go backwards.Nobody who attends Grands Prix is ever going to look back and say "ahh remember those hybrids, those were the days".
People have this weird mixed up notion that F1 is just engines.
Its the racetracks and its the cars and its the drivers. You cant even see the engine anyway.
I did not watch even one of the FE end of season calender at the berlin track. Could not bear to inflict that boredom on myself.
Have gradually watched it less and less every year till zero for this last multi race end of season.
FE is only the future if you have a weak mind eager to please all the social media influencers they hire.
When they can run around an F1 track like spa at the same speed and as long as an F1 car I may take a look.
Its the racetracks and its the cars and its the drivers. You cant even see the engine anyway.
I did not watch even one of the FE end of season calender at the berlin track. Could not bear to inflict that boredom on myself.
Have gradually watched it less and less every year till zero for this last multi race end of season.
FE is only the future if you have a weak mind eager to please all the social media influencers they hire.
When they can run around an F1 track like spa at the same speed and as long as an F1 car I may take a look.
Fundoreen said:
People have this weird mixed up notion that F1 is just engines.
Its the racetracks and its the cars and its the drivers. You cant even see the engine anyway.
I did not watch even one of the FE end of season calender at the berlin track. Could not bear to inflict that boredom on myself.
Have gradually watched it less and less every year till zero for this last multi race end of season.
FE is only the future if you have a weak mind eager to please all the social media influencers they hire.
When they can run around an F1 track like spa at the same speed and as long as an F1 car I may take a look.
This... I saw a bit of FE a few weeks ago. I wasn’t for me. If F1 disappeared at the end of this season I couldn’t get interested in FE, in fact if I could I already would be. For me it’s down there with IndyCar. It would have to be WRC, MotoGP plus Touring Cars as the F1 replacement.Its the racetracks and its the cars and its the drivers. You cant even see the engine anyway.
I did not watch even one of the FE end of season calender at the berlin track. Could not bear to inflict that boredom on myself.
Have gradually watched it less and less every year till zero for this last multi race end of season.
FE is only the future if you have a weak mind eager to please all the social media influencers they hire.
When they can run around an F1 track like spa at the same speed and as long as an F1 car I may take a look.
Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff