Honda to leave F1
Discussion
Fundoreen said:
Dunno about this taking over the operation stuff. The actual engine is a tiny part of the PU.
It would be more exhausting for honda to work with someone else getting them up to speed than doing it themselves and they would get the blame
when the inevitable bodge blew up every race.
Presumably it would either be badged as a Red Bull PU, or the naming rights sold to a sponsor as they did with the watch company a few years ago? It would be more exhausting for honda to work with someone else getting them up to speed than doing it themselves and they would get the blame
when the inevitable bodge blew up every race.
I guess the plan is for Mateschitz to write a big cheque (£100m?), and take on the UK facility and staff - which saves Honda a load more cash and goodwill in not having to close it down and make redundancies - in exchange for a licence to borrow the manufacturing facility and a few people who know the secret sauce. It’s basically RB taking over the marginal development and production costs for the next five years until the new engine formula, a time during which there’s severe restrictions on how much development is going to be allowed anyway.
Fundoreen said:
Dunno about this taking over the operation stuff. The actual engine is a tiny part of the PU.
It would be more exhausting for honda to work with someone else getting them up to speed than doing it themselves and they would get the blame
when the inevitable bodge blew up every race.
Correct. And they will have no interest in doing anything to help unless they do it all - which they don't wish to.It would be more exhausting for honda to work with someone else getting them up to speed than doing it themselves and they would get the blame
when the inevitable bodge blew up every race.
I don't believe they'll do anything to explain their research or secrets to a third party.
Honda are the world's largest engine manufacturer by volume. It's the core of their business and they're not about to transfer any of their know how to anyone else for any amount of money.
mike-v2tmf said:
It would be a wealthy (and brave manufacturer) to step in with their own engine , but VW have been rumoured as interested for a while .......maybe a VW inspired engine branded Lamborghini ?
Red Bull and VW have had links for some time.However, it's highly, highly unlikely to happen.
The 2026 regulation change is but 5 years away.
Rumour has it that Mercedes spent 7 years working on their 2014 engine concept before it was raced.
VW are highly unlikely to invest a load of money for an engine design that'll be used for 4 years before being obsolete.
Also, regarding your Lamborghini theory, it's a nice thought but word is that now Piech has long gone, VW group are looking to off-load the 'halo' brands, including Bugatti, Ducati and Lamborghini, as they join the push for electrification investment.
faa77 said:
Could they create a separate legal entity from the team, to produce the engine outside of the budget cap?
Its outside of the budget cap anyway. Only the cost (to the racing team) of buying the PU's are counted.In theory they could spend an infinite amount on PU development outside the cap and supply engines for £1. (Which is what a works team does)
Moving forward I think they might have to change the current hybrid spec sooner than expected - it's not set in stone, if manufacturers start to lose interest that's obviously a big problem and they'd have to do something. That's worth thinking about when it seems as if the sport can't possibly attract the likes of VW etc.
It's also probably why Brawn last year floated the idea of twin stroke F1 to the media - a technology that's suddenly gaining interest amongst engine manufacturers and could create an ungodly sound at very high rpm... Also huge weight saving which paves the way for more batteries, more electrification.
I reckon they'll stretch out the current spec PUs for as long as they can but they're clearly also looking at a plan B if the manufacturers do begin to lose interest.
It's also probably why Brawn last year floated the idea of twin stroke F1 to the media - a technology that's suddenly gaining interest amongst engine manufacturers and could create an ungodly sound at very high rpm... Also huge weight saving which paves the way for more batteries, more electrification.
I reckon they'll stretch out the current spec PUs for as long as they can but they're clearly also looking at a plan B if the manufacturers do begin to lose interest.
Munter said:
I guess another option is Red Bull just walk away as well. They might be done playing here.
Lets imagine for a moment that Honda walked because they thought 2nd in the WCC was as high as they could ever power a team...The same goes for Redbull pretty much. They've climbed as high as they can vs Merc - helped by the fact that Ferrari have shamed themselves and shuffled off to the back of midfield.
However, the interesting thing about Redbull is that they don't actually have to be winning to make the effort worthwhile - they just have to be punching and earning headlines. That's how fizzy drinks are sold. RB pretty much just have to avoid being shockingingly bad and the marketing strategy will still be worthwhile.
TheDeuce said:
Munter said:
I guess another option is Red Bull just walk away as well. They might be done playing here.
Lets imagine for a moment that Honda walked because they thought 2nd in the WCC was as high as they could ever power a team...The same goes for Redbull pretty much. They've climbed as high as they can vs Merc - helped by the fact that Ferrari have shamed themselves and shuffled off to the back of midfield.
You would never believe that another team is unbeatable, otherwise you'd just pack up and not bother.
Muzzer79 said:
TheDeuce said:
Munter said:
I guess another option is Red Bull just walk away as well. They might be done playing here.
Lets imagine for a moment that Honda walked because they thought 2nd in the WCC was as high as they could ever power a team...The same goes for Redbull pretty much. They've climbed as high as they can vs Merc - helped by the fact that Ferrari have shamed themselves and shuffled off to the back of midfield.
You would never believe that another team is unbeatable, otherwise you'd just pack up and not bother.
Its quite easy to forget that Red Bull at least sponsor one team in a large portion of motorsport and even some niche ones like drifting and motorcross.
I find it quite hard to believe they would quit F1, particularly given the recent uptake in sales (10% increase in 2019) and increase in profits they saw last financial year. Their marketing strategy is clearly working and F1 will be a large part of that.
I think it will have took them less than a day to convince Mateschitz and the board to stump up the money, even in the current climate.
I find it quite hard to believe they would quit F1, particularly given the recent uptake in sales (10% increase in 2019) and increase in profits they saw last financial year. Their marketing strategy is clearly working and F1 will be a large part of that.
I think it will have took them less than a day to convince Mateschitz and the board to stump up the money, even in the current climate.
jsf said:
When you can buy an off the shelf package from Renault (which is good enough), you would need your head testing to try and develop your own engine under the current rules.
Can't disagree. I'm sure they'll be running Renault power again, only sensible solution.I think that even with the moderate downgrade in PU (imo) it won't effect their championship standing either, not unless Ferrari manage to learn how to make a car go fast legally in time to challenge them again. The rule changes going in to 2022 are far more likely to upset the established order on the grid than this PU swap.
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