Honda to leave F1
Discussion
jsf said:
When you can buy an off the shelf package from Renault (which is good enough), you would need your head testing to try and develop your own engine under the current rules.
I completely agree, It would be a huge undertaking technically and financially to potentially still be behind the Renault PU. However as I understand it, they would potentially stand to lose Max, as he was quite critical of the Renault PU.
If Max goes to Merc, its all over for RBR as the only other person currently on the grid who could challenge him is Ham, IMO of course. If Merc get Max, they will continue to 1,2 till the cows come home
If Red Bull build a dominant car, as they did previously, you dont need a Max or Lewis. There are plenty of drivers available who could win the championship in those circumstances.
The ultra quick driver is of value when you don't have the technical advantage.
The car matters more than the driver.
The ultra quick driver is of value when you don't have the technical advantage.
The car matters more than the driver.
TheDeuce said:
They'd have more luck trying to squeeze a fart out of a stone than getting an engine out of Maranello! Ferrari aren't going to do anything to help a team that they know can build a better car than them 
From what I understand, they are not going for Honda. Ferrari or Renault are on the grid so an engine is ready but another manufacturer is also interested in F1 so options are open.
So far, Renault have said they will supply if asked, but need to know soon.
Ferrari have said maybe, if they ask, but need to know soon.
Mercedes have said no.
Realistically it's only going to be Renault out of the current manufacturers, if they can't persuade Honda to sell them the rights to manufacture that engine themselves.
Ferrari have said maybe, if they ask, but need to know soon.
Mercedes have said no.
Realistically it's only going to be Renault out of the current manufacturers, if they can't persuade Honda to sell them the rights to manufacture that engine themselves.
M5-911 said:
TheDeuce said:
They'd have more luck trying to squeeze a fart out of a stone than getting an engine out of Maranello! Ferrari aren't going to do anything to help a team that they know can build a better car than them
From what I understand, they are not going for Honda. Ferrari or Renault are on the grid so an engine is ready but another manufacturer is also interested in F1 so options are open.
thegreenhell said:
So far, Renault have said they will supply if asked, but need to know soon.
Ferrari have said maybe, if they ask, but need to know soon.
Mercedes have said no.
Realistically it's only going to be Renault out of the current manufacturers, if they can't persuade Honda to sell them the rights to manufacture that engine themselves.
I've seen the suggestion that they take over the engine manufacture or department themselves a few times, but it doesn't make any sense to me. Honda are in until the end of 2021, and then the engine regs change, don't they? There'd need a completely new engine so no point taking over manufacture of the current one, unless I'm missing something?Ferrari have said maybe, if they ask, but need to know soon.
Mercedes have said no.
Realistically it's only going to be Renault out of the current manufacturers, if they can't persuade Honda to sell them the rights to manufacture that engine themselves.
Must also say, the only thing that surprised me about Honda packing their bags and quitting, is that it surprised me. They've done this every time they've been in F1. Personally I wish they'd either commit to the sport, or just p
s off and stay out of it. I'm starting to get irritated that they keep dipping their toe in, taste a little success, then bugger off leaving their partner with some awkward problems.TheLuke said:
jsf said:
When you can buy an off the shelf package from Renault (which is good enough), you would need your head testing to try and develop your own engine under the current rules.
I completely agree, It would be a huge undertaking technically and financially to potentially still be behind the Renault PU. However as I understand it, they would potentially stand to lose Max, as he was quite critical of the Renault PU.
If Max goes to Merc, its all over for RBR as the only other person currently on the grid who could challenge him is Ham, IMO of course. If Merc get Max, they will continue to 1,2 till the cows come home
F1 is cyclical, it always has been. Drivers come and go but, crucially, so do engineers, mechanics, aerodynamicists. As these people are successful, they seek new challenges, get poached, retire or go to other disciplines.
A winning team will break up at some point - it happened to Red Bull, Ferrari, Williams, Mclaren - all of whom you could have assumed would win forever.
Who would have put money on Sebastian Vettel failing to win a race in 2014 when he'd won 9 in a row the previous year and had Adrian Newey, the rule-change guru, in his garage?
It's perfectly feasible that Mercedes turn up in 2022 with a poor car.
The engine isn't everything and I refer you to Exhibit A: Williams.
I can't help thinking Honda returned to F1 thinking they would be dominant like they were in the 60s - but maybe Toyota's pitiful attempt a decade or more earlier despite throwing millions at it should have given them food for thought!
But their withdrawal won't affect sales of the Jazz and CRV. Or even the chav-tastic Civic.
F1 just doesn't align well with the cars they are trying to sell.
It does leave the fizzy drink teams with a bit of an issue though!
But their withdrawal won't affect sales of the Jazz and CRV. Or even the chav-tastic Civic.
F1 just doesn't align well with the cars they are trying to sell.
It does leave the fizzy drink teams with a bit of an issue though!
TheDeuce said:
You're reading a few quotes from Binotto and thinking about what he said, not why he's saying such things.
That article came out after I told you that that Ferrari could be an option. A few talks have been heard out there. Interestingly enough, Redbull are not in rush at the moment. Another manufacturer is interested in F1. More talks and rumours to come...
M5-911 said:
TheDeuce said:
You're reading a few quotes from Binotto and thinking about what he said, not why he's saying such things.
That article came out after I told you that that Ferrari could be an option. A few talks have been heard out there. Interestingly enough, Redbull are not in rush at the moment. Another manufacturer is interested in F1. More talks and rumours to come...
Last year one could argue that RB did beat them in a way. Even with both Ferrari's in cheat mode Max at least bought home more points and wins than either Ferrari driver. That's not the sort of performance Ferrari want to support at all.
TheDeuce said:
I really don't think Ferrari are an option. Binotto will talk about it endlessly so long as people are interested at the possibility as it'll raise headlines - but I can't see them giving any team that could beat them a supply deal.
Last year one could argue that RB did beat them in a way. Even with both Ferrari's in cheat mode Max at least bought home more points and wins than either Ferrari driver. That's not the sort of performance Ferrari want to support at all.
Why would Red Bull have any interest in what’s what’s clearly the slowest engine out there? Last year one could argue that RB did beat them in a way. Even with both Ferrari's in cheat mode Max at least bought home more points and wins than either Ferrari driver. That's not the sort of performance Ferrari want to support at all.
TheDeuce said:
M5-911 said:
TheDeuce said:
You're reading a few quotes from Binotto and thinking about what he said, not why he's saying such things.
That article came out after I told you that that Ferrari could be an option. A few talks have been heard out there. Interestingly enough, Redbull are not in rush at the moment. Another manufacturer is interested in F1. More talks and rumours to come...
Last year one could argue that RB did beat them in a way. Even with both Ferrari's in cheat mode Max at least bought home more points and wins than either Ferrari driver. That's not the sort of performance Ferrari want to support at all.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/ferrari-would-h...
Sandpit Steve said:
TheDeuce said:
I really don't think Ferrari are an option. Binotto will talk about it endlessly so long as people are interested at the possibility as it'll raise headlines - but I can't see them giving any team that could beat them a supply deal.
Last year one could argue that RB did beat them in a way. Even with both Ferrari's in cheat mode Max at least bought home more points and wins than either Ferrari driver. That's not the sort of performance Ferrari want to support at all.
Why would Red Bull have any interest in what’s what’s clearly the slowest engine out there? Last year one could argue that RB did beat them in a way. Even with both Ferrari's in cheat mode Max at least bought home more points and wins than either Ferrari driver. That's not the sort of performance Ferrari want to support at all.
TheDeuce said:
That's an additional reason it won't happen of course! Although we have to assume that at some point Ferrari will be trying to sort out the lack of power.
It might not happen (especially with the power deficit) but the door is definitely not closed as you mentioned. The only closed door is Mercedes. Plenty of talks are happening as we are debating. M5-911 said:
TheDeuce said:
That's an additional reason it won't happen of course! Although we have to assume that at some point Ferrari will be trying to sort out the lack of power.
It might not happen (especially with the power deficit) but the door is definitely not closed as you mentioned. The only closed door is Mercedes. Plenty of talks are happening as we are debating. Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff