Saudi Arabia added to 2021 calender
Discussion
A decision like this does not surprise anyone now surely, F1 goes where who pays the most, in complete disregard of interest, history or anything else. Has done for years, Bahrain, China, all with questionable human rights issues, and now Saudi, it is hardly a shock.
AJ fought Ruiz there, they paid the most they got the fight, it is how totally money governed and run sports (Lol businesses what am I talking about) like this work.
What stinks is being asked to pay to watch it!!
AJ fought Ruiz there, they paid the most they got the fight, it is how totally money governed and run sports (Lol businesses what am I talking about) like this work.
What stinks is being asked to pay to watch it!!
Sandpit Steve said:
kevinon said:
Off-topic, will the enlightened decision for Qatar to host the World Cup help change hearts and minds?
No. It’s quite clear now, that that decision was made more for the interests of the individual decision-makers, than the interests of the sport they governed. Associated Press: French officials say several people have been wounded in an attack on an Armistice ceremony in Jeddah in Saudi Arabia
https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1326491528...
https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1326491528...
"Saudi women's rights activist Loujain al-Hathloul is sentenced to nearly six years in jail"
among the charges: calling for an end to male guardianship, applying for a UN job, attending digital privacy training, & communicating with international groups & media about women's rights.
https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20201228-s...
Still, they're paying for an F1 race ....
among the charges: calling for an end to male guardianship, applying for a UN job, attending digital privacy training, & communicating with international groups & media about women's rights.
https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20201228-s...
Still, they're paying for an F1 race ....
FourWheelDrift said:
"Saudi women's rights activist Loujain al-Hathloul is sentenced to nearly six years in jail"
among the charges: calling for an end to male guardianship, applying for a UN job, attending digital privacy training, & communicating with international groups & media about women's rights.
https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20201228-s...
Still, they're paying for an F1 race ....
Well of course they are... The question is why. They need to look more to the west as the oil money starts to dry up. If we go over, in spite of all that we don't agree with, it's inevitable that they will take at least something of our culture at least. Not just from F1 but from every part of western culture they import.among the charges: calling for an end to male guardianship, applying for a UN job, attending digital privacy training, & communicating with international groups & media about women's rights.
https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20201228-s...
Still, they're paying for an F1 race ....
That's the way it's worked for countless thousands of years at least. That's why I'm not opposed to F1 going there - even though I freely admit that much of the recent history is hard to stomach.
The basic principle stands however. If you think your culture is kinder than another, the best way to help (from your perspective at least), is to welcome it being exported and shared.
vaud said:
Serious question - where do we draw the moral line?
What, from our armchairs, should constitute a “red line” for F1?
Democracy?
The death penalty?
The placing on the corruption index?
A countries position on free press?
LGBT rights, etc?
Wherever it prevents F1 operating safely, perhaps.What, from our armchairs, should constitute a “red line” for F1?
Democracy?
The death penalty?
The placing on the corruption index?
A countries position on free press?
LGBT rights, etc?
Saudi wants the F1. None of those things I'd expect to impact upon the event and if it doesn't get the F1 it isn't going to become democratic or deliver a free press, etc.
FWIW Saudi's put some effort into anti-corruption amongst others and now ranks higher than some EU countries.
768 said:
vaud said:
Serious question - where do we draw the moral line?
What, from our armchairs, should constitute a “red line” for F1?
Democracy?
The death penalty?
The placing on the corruption index?
A countries position on free press?
LGBT rights, etc?
Wherever it prevents F1 operating safely, perhaps.What, from our armchairs, should constitute a “red line” for F1?
Democracy?
The death penalty?
The placing on the corruption index?
A countries position on free press?
LGBT rights, etc?
Saudi wants the F1. None of those things I'd expect to impact upon the event and if it doesn't get the F1 it isn't going to become democratic or deliver a free press, etc.
FWIW Saudi's put some effort into anti-corruption amongst others and now ranks higher than some EU countries.
The Saudis will tune in and see and hear western drivers with western views looking like superstars and female mechanics at work.
All of that could well have no real effect - but it won't have a negative effect... They can take from it what they will. F1 can take their money by return. No part of that is wrong.
They're opening the doors to western culture. It would be rude and small minded to not step through. Its also worth bearing in mind how nervous the establishment must be about the need to let ever more western influence in - they must know it will cause the younger generations to question a few things and maybe push for change - yet they're doing it anyway.
Invite sent, F1 is going. I'll be happy to watch and hope it's a good venue. Tbh almost any totally new venue is good for the first season
FourWheelDrift said:
"Saudi women's rights activist Loujain al-Hathloul is sentenced to nearly six years in jail"
among the charges: calling for an end to male guardianship, applying for a UN job, attending digital privacy training, & communicating with international groups & media about women's rights.
https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20201228-s...
Still, they're paying for an F1 race ....
Now there’s a good cause for Lewis to put on a t-shirt... among the charges: calling for an end to male guardianship, applying for a UN job, attending digital privacy training, & communicating with international groups & media about women's rights.
https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20201228-s...
Still, they're paying for an F1 race ....
Joking aside, since that’s clearly not going to happen, F1 represents a genuine opportunity for a country like KSA ago be exposed to Western values for a few days, with the world watching.
We know that the change can’t happen quickly enough for many Westen activists, but it is still happening there. They’ll get there in the end, as they need an economy not completely based on oil for the second half of this century.
Sandpit Steve said:
We know that the change can’t happen quickly enough for many Westen activists, but it is still happening there. They’ll get there in the end, as they need an economy not completely based on oil for the second half of this century.
Quite. It's not going to happen quickly - nor should it quite frankly, fundamental change is an upset in any society and takes a very long time.Sooner they're exposed to more western influence the better then. Delaying that influence out of 'protest' is just daft. Why protest something when you're invited to head to ground zero and can offer an influence where it can do the most good..??
For the sake of balance, there are plenty of things we could take from the eastern cultures too... And we increasingly do so. It's always best to mingle cultures in the end. Any right thinking F1 fan should love this deal for the health of the sport, and watch keenly to see the sport played out in a place that some viewers might find a little alien, but is nonetheless an interesting part of the world with a lot needed but also a lot to give.
SmoothCriminal said:
I can't believe that people are so deluded that they think a couple of days of F1 is going to change Saudi Arabia.
Deluded? You read through several well made points in this thread and missed them all?Literally no one has said that. It's about SA being open to western influence, not the tiny part that F1 may play.
In principle, it's correct F1 should go there imo. And it's also correct pizza hut. mcdonalds and KFC should go there. Along with Ferrari, Lamborghini and a thousand other western brands.
Not one of them will have a measurable effect on their own. The fact they CAN go there now does however suggest a change of thinking is afoot in the middle east. They want all the fancy western stuff and in doing so they will absorb parts of western culture. It's proven throughout history, that's just what happens.
Eric Mc said:
I think it is massively misguided for F1 to go there. F1 is chasing the money - as it always does.
As long as young women continue to be locked up for stating their minds, it is a place that should be ostracised, not feted.
Got to agree with this. It isn’t a safe place for many people. We shouldn’t be selling these people weapons or helping them cleanse their countries reputation via sport and culture.As long as young women continue to be locked up for stating their minds, it is a place that should be ostracised, not feted.
CallThatMusic said:
Eric Mc said:
I think it is massively misguided for F1 to go there. F1 is chasing the money - as it always does.
As long as young women continue to be locked up for stating their minds, it is a place that should be ostracised, not feted.
Got to agree with this. It isn’t a safe place for many people. We shouldn’t be selling these people weapons or helping them cleanse their countries reputation via sport and culture.As long as young women continue to be locked up for stating their minds, it is a place that should be ostracised, not feted.
Will features of the track have their own names? Such as we might have Lavant or Eau Rouge?
Stoning Chicane?
Amputation run off area?
Beheading corner?
Lashing pits?
Torture hospitality area?
I assume the sainted F1 drivers (may God bless them for their words of profound wisdom) are so intoxicated by their own presence that they will ignore what is going on in the country? It will be odd to see them taking the knee in such a place.
Stoning Chicane?
Amputation run off area?
Beheading corner?
Lashing pits?
Torture hospitality area?
I assume the sainted F1 drivers (may God bless them for their words of profound wisdom) are so intoxicated by their own presence that they will ignore what is going on in the country? It will be odd to see them taking the knee in such a place.
768 said:
I think your corner names need just a touch more imagination. The swinging esses or the chop chop chicane, sang-rouge or 130 lashes perhaps.
As above, I think history tells us that isolating these countries isn't the answer.
Agreed. If we get too much on our moral high horses then we won't race in China (human right abuse), USA (death penalty, etc), etc. Write off Vietnam (corruption), etc...As above, I think history tells us that isolating these countries isn't the answer.
Plus the UK has £6B+ of exports to Saudi. Maybe we should stop that as well if we don't agree with the regime.
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