Official 2020 Turkish Grand Prix **SPOILERS**
Discussion
Teddy Lop said:
Murghee said:
Nice to see they left the merc dirty for the celebration pic..looks cool
they couldn't find valteri to clean it Wonder if they will keep it dirty like that in a museam it would mean he would need another car for next race so penalties...but who cares everything is won
Sandpit Steve said:
Murghee said:
Nice to see they left the merc dirty for the celebration pic..looks cool
I suggested earlier that a canny Lewis should have asked for the team to either give or sell him that car, exactly as it is now, dirt and all. Bonus points for keeping those tyres on it. Gad-Westy said:
Sandpit Steve said:
Murghee said:
Nice to see they left the merc dirty for the celebration pic..looks cool
I suggested earlier that a canny Lewis should have asked for the team to either give or sell him that car, exactly as it is now, dirt and all. Bonus points for keeping those tyres on it. Think lewis was asking someon during the photo as he kept pointing to the car and back to him while speaking...
Anyways...be sure to see a replica with the dirt and slick inters for sale in your model toy store
rdjohn said:
NRS said:
Max for sure will win WDCs, but he'll struggle to be as good as Lewis I think. The main reason is Lewis was super fast when he started, and had a few crashes. He seems to have learned from them, whereas Max looks to have an issue with his temperament. I said it to the girlfriend during the race, the overtakes were the perfect example of their styles. Lewis when fighting Vettel went for it, but went round the outside and lost a few places but could recover, thinking about the long game. Max just went for it immediately, even though we were maybe 1/2 of the race through, and the RP would get worse as the race went on due to very clearly having a wet setup. He needs to think of the whole race, not just the next person in front of him.
If I scored Lewis 100, then I would score Max 97. They both are “the real deal”.Lewis got there first and so has the best drive, so I am saddened that Max will not get the same opportunities to excel.
Do we really need a WDC to prove a driver’s skills? Moss had none, but was highly respected by his peers. You have to look beyond the numbers.
Lewis plaited sand on Sunday - Max fell on stoney ground.
He needs two things to get multiple world championships. 1) Be one of the best drivers available and 2) Be in a car that's fast enough for him to win with. For multiple championships it means being in the best car, which usually means he is also the best driver.
So to be clear, I agree that you can't rate a driver on just his WDCs, but you can say that if the driver really is one of the best, then he's capable of winning WDCs given the right opportunities. Most agree that two WDCs is below Alonso's potential for instance, and that he was, either through bad decision making or bad luck, usually in the wrong car at the wrong time. Moss was also a great driver but he was the first to admit that as long as Fangio was around, he wasn't the best on the track.
So I'm not saying Max needs to win championships to earn the title of the best driver on the grid, I'm saying that he is likely to be the next multiple champion because, once Lewis leaves, he will be the best driver on the grid.
Murghee said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
The tyres belong to Pirelli I think and go back to them after the race.
What would pirelli do with them?Yes - agree with that. If he was racing Lewis in equal cars it'd be interesting to see how it went. I'd guess if he was in something like the Mercedes it could be very close, as they'd be out front and so have few issues tangling with other cars. If they were in the same car but which wasn't the best I'd hazard a guess that Hamilton would do better over a season, as he'd have less DNFs trying to force a move immediately.
We don't know how Max will do over a championship, as he's always had to race for the win the few times the car has been good enough. But given his dad's temper and what we have seen before I think it will always be a weakness for him. Every driver has some, it just depends if you can get a good enough balance and negate the problems as much as possible.
I wonder if Lewis will stay in F1 deliberately to protect his records. The longer he stays there the harder it is for Max/other young drivers to pass him, despite having many more years racing over their career. Max will for sure get the best car offers when Hamilton is gone, so the question now is how long Lewis stays, and if Max can choose the right team for the regulations.
We don't know how Max will do over a championship, as he's always had to race for the win the few times the car has been good enough. But given his dad's temper and what we have seen before I think it will always be a weakness for him. Every driver has some, it just depends if you can get a good enough balance and negate the problems as much as possible.
I wonder if Lewis will stay in F1 deliberately to protect his records. The longer he stays there the harder it is for Max/other young drivers to pass him, despite having many more years racing over their career. Max will for sure get the best car offers when Hamilton is gone, so the question now is how long Lewis stays, and if Max can choose the right team for the regulations.
Sandpit Steve said:
Murghee said:
Nice to see they left the merc dirty for the celebration pic..looks cool
I suggested earlier that a canny Lewis should have asked for the team to either give or sell him that car, exactly as it is now, dirt and all. Bonus points for keeping those tyres on it. NRS said:
We don't know how Max will do over a championship, as he's always had to race for the win the few times the car has been good enough. But given his dad's temper and what we have seen before I think it will always be a weakness for him. Every driver has some, it just depends if you can get a good enough balance and negate the problems as much as possible.
I agree. He'll lose championships because he'll drop points and someone fast enough and more consistent can exploit that weakness, and he'll win championships because when he doesn't drop points, he'll pick up a lot of wins. He'll win and lose championships the Senna way rather than the Prost way.NRS said:
Yes - agree with that. If he was racing Lewis in equal cars it'd be interesting to see how it went. I'd guess if he was in something like the Mercedes it could be very close, as they'd be out front and so have few issues tangling with other cars. If they were in the same car but which wasn't the best I'd hazard a guess that Hamilton would do better over a season, as he'd have less DNFs trying to force a move immediately.
We don't know how Max will do over a championship, as he's always had to race for the win the few times the car has been good enough. But given his dad's temper and what we have seen before I think it will always be a weakness for him. Every driver has some, it just depends if you can get a good enough balance and negate the problems as much as possible.
I wonder if Lewis will stay in F1 deliberately to protect his records. The longer he stays there the harder it is for Max/other young drivers to pass him, despite having many more years racing over their career. Max will for sure get the best car offers when Hamilton is gone, so the question now is how long Lewis stays, and if Max can choose the right team for the regulations.
I think if Max went into the Mercedes, he would struggle against Lewis and vice versa. The cars, especially the Red Bull have been developed to suit their driving styles. Both in a third party or a few seasons in, who knows. We don't know how Max will do over a championship, as he's always had to race for the win the few times the car has been good enough. But given his dad's temper and what we have seen before I think it will always be a weakness for him. Every driver has some, it just depends if you can get a good enough balance and negate the problems as much as possible.
I wonder if Lewis will stay in F1 deliberately to protect his records. The longer he stays there the harder it is for Max/other young drivers to pass him, despite having many more years racing over their career. Max will for sure get the best car offers when Hamilton is gone, so the question now is how long Lewis stays, and if Max can choose the right team for the regulations.
Graveworm said:
I think if Max went into the Mercedes, he would struggle against Lewis and vice versa. The cars, especially the Red Bull have been developed to suit their driving styles. Both in a third party or a few seasons in, who knows.
It'd be interesting - I think one of the skills both have is to be able to get a lot out of a car that is not perfect for them, similar to Alonso. Whereas Vettel is fantastic with a blown-diffuser car, but cannot do nearly as well in some other types it seems. I think Max vs Lewis in the same car is one of most popular fantasy pairings. I'd certainly love to see that one!
Somehow I get the idea Lewis would handle anyone else in the second Merc, but Max, I don't know. I don't think we'll ever get to find out and if it doesn't happen in a season or two, it might be past Lewis's peak.... not neccessarily of ability, but possibly of commitment - he might be too battle weary to rise to a really strong challenge in his twilight seasons as much as he would have in the last few years. Maybe.
I felt the same about Senna. I know most believe he'd have gone on to many more championships, but I wasn't sure he was ready to take on the challenge of Schumacher - a driver who would only be getting stronger while Senna would not too long in his future would have started having one eye on retirement.
I say that because he really wanted Prost to come back. That was a challenge he liked. Now he'd accomplished that, I'm not sure he relished some new nobody questioning his status on the track. I think he'd already proven himself the best, and at 34, was he fully ready to have to do that all over again, when it was someone else throwing down the challenge instead of him this time? I'm not sure, and I expect Lewis may get to that point too. If he's paired with Max, I think he may start to understand the stress Nico had to put himself under in order to win. When you're 25 at the peak of your career, it's doable. When you're 35+ and in the last years, and have done it all before, I would think it's harder to find the level of commitment needed.
Somehow I get the idea Lewis would handle anyone else in the second Merc, but Max, I don't know. I don't think we'll ever get to find out and if it doesn't happen in a season or two, it might be past Lewis's peak.... not neccessarily of ability, but possibly of commitment - he might be too battle weary to rise to a really strong challenge in his twilight seasons as much as he would have in the last few years. Maybe.
I felt the same about Senna. I know most believe he'd have gone on to many more championships, but I wasn't sure he was ready to take on the challenge of Schumacher - a driver who would only be getting stronger while Senna would not too long in his future would have started having one eye on retirement.
I say that because he really wanted Prost to come back. That was a challenge he liked. Now he'd accomplished that, I'm not sure he relished some new nobody questioning his status on the track. I think he'd already proven himself the best, and at 34, was he fully ready to have to do that all over again, when it was someone else throwing down the challenge instead of him this time? I'm not sure, and I expect Lewis may get to that point too. If he's paired with Max, I think he may start to understand the stress Nico had to put himself under in order to win. When you're 25 at the peak of your career, it's doable. When you're 35+ and in the last years, and have done it all before, I would think it's harder to find the level of commitment needed.
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