Official 2020 Bahrain Grand Prix Thread **SPOILERS**

[Eric Mc]

They'll be doing something similar in Saudi Arabia only this time it will be for equal treatment for women in Saudi Arabia - or maybe not.

[HustleRussell]

Hereward said:

I watched the highlights last night since I heard there had finally been an interesting race. I noticed the drivers all bent the knee before the start of the race. Is this something they all have to do now do at every race? Presumably it's woe betide any driver who does not want to take part in the virtue signalling?

Perhaps you're not the kind of 'fan' the sport needs.

[Ed28]

Davislove said:

shocking incident.....but thoughts on the halo....its protected his head from impact, but surely it gives you less options to climb away from the car in a fire?

Without the Halo, there would not have been anyone conscious/ alive to climb away from the car?

There is never going to be a perfect scenario, the Halo as proved its strength - I dont see any drivers wanting to move away from it?

I guess the only way that could have been 'worse' if it was;
A - upside down, Stroll showed how quick you can get out still (albeit no flames)
B - if the barrier had been split by the Halo, 'into' the cockpit, but again without the Halo, what what have been the next element, the Helmet, and we may have unfortunatley had similar to Jules?

[p1stonhead]

dunc_sx said:

Hi,

Apologies if this has been discussed already but how does the air supply into the crash helmet system work? I've never been aware of this but Martin Brundle mentioned it regarding Grosjean's crash.

It was the first time I'd heard of this in respect to being able to breath clean air even in a fire situation.

Cheers,

Dunc.

Doesn’t it mean you simply have a bit of air inside your helmet once it’s closed? I’m not aware of any oxygen delivery to the helmet?

[Petrus1983]

dunc_sx said:

Hi,

Apologies if this has been discussed already but how does the air supply into the crash helmet system work? I've never been aware of this but Martin Brundle mentioned it regarding Grosjean's crash.

It was the first time I'd heard of this in respect to being able to breath clean air even in a fire situation.

Cheers,

Dunc.

Are you sure he didn't say drinks supply?

ETA -

I think he was referring to the drinks supply and radio link, as seen below.

Edited by Petrus1983 on Monday 30th November 11:44

[Digga]

CanAm said:

Eric Mc said:

I've hated the Halo device ever since it was introduced, Yesterday, I changed my mind.

We've both been accused of having rose-tinted glasses for daring to say that we prefer the cars of the 60s to today's monstrosities, but there's nothing I'd like more than for those cars to have had the crash and fire safety features of current F1 cars.

Agreed. Like the introduction of roll hoops on Grand Prix cars, retrospectively, you know look back and shudder that the thought of their omission.

I hate the aesthetic of the halo, but would not want to see drivers having to go without it.

[g4ry13]

p1stonhead said:

dunc_sx said:

Hi,

Apologies if this has been discussed already but how does the air supply into the crash helmet system work? I've never been aware of this but Martin Brundle mentioned it regarding Grosjean's crash.

It was the first time I'd heard of this in respect to being able to breath clean air even in a fire situation.

Cheers,

Dunc.

Doesn’t it mean you simply have a bit of air inside your helmet once it’s closed? I’m not aware of any oxygen delivery to the helmet?

They're definitely not driving around with tanks of oxygen for the driver.

[HustleRussell]

vaud said:

Davislove said:

shocking incident.....but thoughts on the halo....its protected his head from impact, but surely it gives you less options to climb away from the car in a fire?

Yes but without the halo Grosjean may not have had a head.

This. See Francois Cervert.

[Eric Mc]

In the 1970s many cars were fitted with emergency oxygen supplies. I think in the end they were discontinued because they didn't really add an awful lot of safety - and pure oxygen and naked flames are a bad mix, as the crew of Apollo 1 found out in 1967 -

[HustleRussell]

dunc_sx said:

Hi,

Apologies if this has been discussed already but how does the air supply into the crash helmet system work? I've never been aware of this but Martin Brundle mentioned it regarding Grosjean's crash.

It was the first time I'd heard of this in respect to being able to breath clean air even in a fire situation.

Cheers,

Dunc.

I think Martin was talking about the Indycar Aeroscreen. Indycar drivers have a piped clean air feed from the exterior surface of the car into the helmet. F1 with the halo does not.

[FourWheelDrift]

Analysis of the crash - https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/what-aftermath-...

[vaud]

Eric Mc said:

In the 1970s many cars were fitted with emergency oxygen supplies.

I can't find anything definitive but some reference here:

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/medical-...

[sgtBerbatov]

TheDeuce said:

sgtBerbatov said:

Blackpuddin said:

Big conflagration obvs but a bit surprised at how ineffective the extinguishers seemed to be.

Agreed.

And they want to start using exotic fuels in the next year or two?

Is there a reason to think the energy density or volatility of the proposed synthetic fuel is any different to the current fuel? I'd understood it was a like for like replacement, albeit synthetic in origin as opposed to fossil fuel derived.

I don't know, and I don't know enough about it. But I'm listening to the Grenfell fire enquiry and how Kingspan changed the chemicals used in their insulation which made it "burn differently", almost burning down the test lab, it's in my head that while you change how the fuel is made then the inadvertent effect is that it may become harder to extinguish.

Munter said:

sgtBerbatov said:

Blackpuddin said:

Big conflagration obvs but a bit surprised at how ineffective the extinguishers seemed to be.

Agreed.

And they want to start using exotic fuels in the next year or two?

Interesting how people see things differently. I was amazed how effective the powder extinguisher was. Soon as that hit the area with Romain in it, the fire in that spot just dies. It wasn't the worlds biggest extinguisher, but hugely more effective at pushing the fire back than I'd have thought, and lasted long enough for the driver to find their way out/the medic to get to close to him.

I can't remember who said it, but they raised the question that if Grosjean was unconscious with that inferno, was the single sole fire extinguisher enough to help rescuers remove him from the car? And even if he wasn't unconscious but he was trapped under the armco, restricting his extraction, would that fire extinguisher be enough?

From what I can gather, the extinguisher did enough to push the flames back a bit to get an already mobile Grosjean out of the car. Like I said, if it had been any of the other two scenarios (which in this instance, both could've easily happened), I'd be concerned. Plus the marshalls didn't have masks either, so there's that to look at too.

[anonymous-user]

HustleRussell said:

dunc_sx said:

Hi,

Apologies if this has been discussed already but how does the air supply into the crash helmet system work? I've never been aware of this but Martin Brundle mentioned it regarding Grosjean's crash.

It was the first time I'd heard of this in respect to being able to breath clean air even in a fire situation.

Cheers,

Dunc.

I think Martin was talking about the Indycar Aeroscreen. Indycar drivers have a piped clean air feed from the exterior surface of the car into the helmet. F1 with the halo does not.

It's mandated in certain categories of racing - Funny Car being one of them. The fresh air system is piped into the helmet through a breather tube. The actual bottle setup is similar to a small scuba diving bottle, flicked on just as you enter pre-stage normally, or perhaps before the burnout if you anticipate it being smokey. They're used regardless of fires because the cockpit is quite smoggy on a good run and you cant breathe easily with the clutch dust and oil mist that forms even when everything's going to plan.

In the case of Funny Cars, The bottle's kept behind the rollcage, so any concerns about the bottle being damaged and exploding - if that were the case, the fire's gone through the cockpit already and BBQ'd the driver.

[ch37]

FourWheelDrift said:

Analysis of the crash - https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/what-aftermath-...

Looking at where the car came to rest and the fact that Grosjean had to climb over the barrier, did he pull himself through the side of the halo (the side pointing up inside the barrier), the positioning of his head restraint also suggests he never came out through the 'top' as usual. I'm not even sure if you can physically fit through the side, but either way an amazing effort to extract himself in the circumstances.

[FourWheelDrift]

ch37 said:

FourWheelDrift said:

Analysis of the crash - https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/what-aftermath-...

Looking at where the car came to rest and the fact that Grosjean had to climb over the barrier, did he pull himself through the side of the halo (the side pointing up inside the barrier), the positioning of his head restraint also suggests he never came out through the 'top' as usual.

I don't think a helmet can fit through anywhere else but the top.

[chrisga]

ch37 said:

Looking at where the car came to rest and the fact that Grosjean had to climb over the barrier, did he pull himself through the side of the halo (the side pointing up inside the barrier), the positioning of his head restraint also suggests he never came out through the 'top' as usual.

Yep, I think he must have got out between the top of the cockpit and the halo on the left hand side to emerge from behind the barriers, if he'd come out the top wouldnt he have been on the track side of the barrier? Does anyone know if the F1 drivers practice this as well as normal extraction through the top? Anyone know how much the gap is from top of cockpit to underside of halo?

edit to add - looking at this he can't have done, surely:

Edited by chrisga on Monday 30th November 12:17

[Hub]

chrisga said:

Yep, I think he must have got out between the top of the cockpit and the halo on the left hand side to emerge from behind the barriers, if he'd come out the top wouldnt he have been on the track side of the barrier? Does anyone know if the F1 drivers practice this as well as normal extraction through the top? Anyone know how much the gap is from top of cockpit to underside of halo?

He must have come out of the top of the cockpit between the halo and the barrier - I think the cockpit area was a bit further through the barrier than it looks from the trackside pictures, but also at quite an angle, so it is just one of a number of factors of major luck that he wasn't more wedged under the barrier and could escape quickly.

[kiseca]

He can go out the side if the Halo has moved relative to the tub. Earlier pictures show that the tub has cracked at the base of the halo's centre post, so it's possible the two have moved? I heard something about it being titanium alloy, so it can bend.

Also shows how much energy the halo bar has absorbed, if it were under enough stress to crack the tub itself.

EDIT: Looking through the pictures, it doesn't look like the halo bar has moved.

Edited by kiseca on Monday 30th November 12:32

[thegreenhell]

He'd never get his helmet through that side gap, surely?