Haas chose Russia’s Nikita Mazepin

[TheDeuce]

HustleRussell said:

TheDeuce said:

Some folk are just desperate

You should write tabloid news

You're the one quoting out of context tabloid style.

Do you have anything of value to add to the thread?

[stemll]

vaud said:

HardtopManual said:

Every F1 driver I've seen before (yes, even Maldonado and Taki Inoue) has left me thinking, "I could never do that."

Mazepin is the first driver I've seen who makes me think, "Yeah, I could compete at his level."

To be fair to Mazepin, he is better than Inoue and I doubt any of us could get within 10 secs of the pole time.

I doubt many would get past the first corner

[Siao]

stemll said:

vaud said:

HardtopManual said:

Every F1 driver I've seen before (yes, even Maldonado and Taki Inoue) has left me thinking, "I could never do that."

Mazepin is the first driver I've seen who makes me think, "Yeah, I could compete at his level."

To be fair to Mazepin, he is better than Inoue and I doubt any of us could get within 10 secs of the pole time.

I doubt many would get past the first corner

Most of us probably would stall it trying to start with that double clutch paddle job, so first corner would be like the finish line!

[thegreenhell]

I'd probably get stuck in the halo just trying to get into it, like Winnie the Pooh....

[kiseca]

Siao said:

stemll said:

vaud said:

HardtopManual said:

Every F1 driver I've seen before (yes, even Maldonado and Taki Inoue) has left me thinking, "I could never do that."

Mazepin is the first driver I've seen who makes me think, "Yeah, I could compete at his level."

To be fair to Mazepin, he is better than Inoue and I doubt any of us could get within 10 secs of the pole time.

I doubt many would get past the first corner

Most of us probably would stall it trying to start with that double clutch paddle job, so first corner would be like the finish line!

It's all relative, isn't it? If I had millions of bucks behind me I'd love to be doing what Mazepin is doing but chances are I wouldn't even have got as far as he has, never mind be challinging Mick for the title of fastest guy in the slowest car.

On the other hand while we were all going on about Stroll only being in it because of the money for the last few seasons, Mazepin is showing what really happens when someone gets to Formula 1 on a cheque rather than on talent.

Stroll's proven he's quick enough for a seat in F1. Mazepin has so far proven he's at least a season too soon, probably more, and a good chance that any time would be too soon for him. He'd kick my ass in any car, but he's not ready for F1 yet.

[Munter]

kiseca said:

It's all relative, isn't it? If I had millions of bucks behind me I'd love to be doing what Mazepin is doing but chances are I wouldn't even have got as far as he has, never mind be challinging Mick for the title of fastest guy in the slowest car.

On the other hand while we were all going on about Stroll only being in it because of the money for the last few seasons, Mazepin is showing what really happens when someone gets to Formula 1 on a cheque rather than on talent.

Stroll's proven he's quick enough for a seat in F1. Mazepin has so far proven he's at least a season too soon, probably more, and a good chance that any time would be too soon for him. He'd kick my ass in any car, but he's not ready for F1 yet.

He'll never be ready. He's had plenty of time in F1 cars to be better than he is.

I've no real issue with pay drivers, teams need them and we always have had them. But if you're paying for a seat, and you should have realised you're not near being good enough to keep up with the pack, then you put yourself up for ridicule. Mazepin should have known he'd be terrible, and backed out of it. His dad should have known he'd be terrible and backed out of it. Unless they are just having a great time, and don't care about being terrible/a laughing stock. In which case crack on, that's what money is for, spending for fun.

[Siao]

kiseca said:

Siao said:

stemll said:

vaud said:

HardtopManual said:

Every F1 driver I've seen before (yes, even Maldonado and Taki Inoue) has left me thinking, "I could never do that."

Mazepin is the first driver I've seen who makes me think, "Yeah, I could compete at his level."

To be fair to Mazepin, he is better than Inoue and I doubt any of us could get within 10 secs of the pole time.

I doubt many would get past the first corner

Most of us probably would stall it trying to start with that double clutch paddle job, so first corner would be like the finish line!

It's all relative, isn't it? If I had millions of bucks behind me I'd love to be doing what Mazepin is doing but chances are I wouldn't even have got as far as he has, never mind be challinging Mick for the title of fastest guy in the slowest car.

On the other hand while we were all going on about Stroll only being in it because of the money for the last few seasons, Mazepin is showing what really happens when someone gets to Formula 1 on a cheque rather than on talent.

Stroll's proven he's quick enough for a seat in F1. Mazepin has so far proven he's at least a season too soon, probably more, and a good chance that any time would be too soon for him. He'd kick my ass in any car, but he's not ready for F1 yet.

I think Stroll has proven a lot of naysayers wrong. I think he's decent enough to be in F1, even if his road to success was with dad's money. I mean, everyone else got sponsored somehow, it's just that he was lucky that his sponsor was his dad.

I do wonder sometimes, when you have people like Mazepin, if some crafty team owner saw that his dad is loaded and caressed his ego by saying something like "wow, your son is amazing, the next big thing, invest in my team and we'll get him to the top".

I bet he would kick our behinds in any car, but that's because he has had so much more real world racing experience. On equal grounds, he may have not, who knows?

[kiseca]

Siao said:

I think Stroll has proven a lot of naysayers wrong. I think he's decent enough to be in F1, even if his road to success was with dad's money. I mean, everyone else got sponsored somehow, it's just that he was lucky that his sponsor was his dad.

I do wonder sometimes, when you have people like Mazepin, if some crafty team owner saw that his dad is loaded and caressed his ego by saying something like "wow, your son is amazing, the next big thing, invest in my team and we'll get him to the top".

I bet he would kick our behinds in any car, but that's because he has had so much more real world racing experience. On equal grounds, he may have not, who knows?

Yeah I guess that's a question. Is Mazepin what an average bloke with lots of practice could achieve with racing cars? Is he perhaps even below that?

I was looking at the odds. I was betting that many drivers as well funded as Mazepin haven't made it as far as he did because they just weren't good enough. Even with the money, he's still beaten the odds IMO, which would put him above average. But I could be wrong. And I'm talking above average as a racing driver overall, not as a formula 1 driver, where being average is most likely currently his stretch goal....

[HustleRussell]

I think that again people are guilty of seriously underestimating the level of talent which exists in European international single seater racing.

If you think you could do what Maz is doing and you haven’t even won a major National single seater championship then you need to give your head a wobble.

To me, race winners in F3 and F2 may as well be aliens.

He is the least talented driver to graduate to F1 this year, he is less talented than at least two 2020 F2 drivers I can think of who haven’t graduated, but he did win two feature races and did come 5th in the championship. The guy’s clearly a POS but he is not slow.

[TheDeuce]

HustleRussell said:

I think that again people are guilty of seriously underestimating the level of talent which exists in European international single seater racing.

If you think you could do what Maz is doing and you haven’t even won a major National single seater championship then you need to give your head a wobble.

To me, race winners in F3 and F2 may as well be aliens.

He is the least talented driver to graduate to F1 this year, he is less talented than at least two 2020 F2 drivers I can think of who haven’t graduated, but he did win two feature races and did come 5th in the championship. The guy’s clearly a POS but he is not slow.

Most people seemed to be saying they couldn't do what he does, not that it's easy.

And for sure, he's a fantastic driver - all drivers who get as far as F2 are fantastic drivers. But that doesn't mean they're quite fantastic enough for F1 of course..

I think mazepin is an average F2 driver, who on merit alone would not have found his way to F1. Now he has, and imo he's out of his depth.

[MartG]

thegreenhell said:

I'd probably get stuck in the halo just trying to get into it, like Winnie the Pooh....

[HustleRussell]

TheDeuce said:

HustleRussell said:

I think that again people are guilty of seriously underestimating the level of talent which exists in European international single seater racing.

If you think you could do what Maz is doing and you haven’t even won a major National single seater championship then you need to give your head a wobble.

To me, race winners in F3 and F2 may as well be aliens.

He is the least talented driver to graduate to F1 this year, he is less talented than at least two 2020 F2 drivers I can think of who haven’t graduated, but he did win two feature races and did come 5th in the championship. The guy’s clearly a POS but he is not slow.

Most people seemed to be saying they couldn't do what he does, not that it's easy.

And for sure, he's a fantastic driver - all drivers who get as far as F2 are fantastic drivers. But that doesn't mean they're quite fantastic enough for F1 of course..

I think mazepin is an average F2 driver, who on merit alone would not have found his way to F1. Now he has, and imo he's out of his depth.

I think that even the best F2 driver graduating to F1 will be initially out of their depth. The differences between F2 and F1 are massive currently and (particularly this season), testing is half what it was even last year which was already limited to a degree never before seen in the sport(?)

Every year F1 fans bash the worst driver on the grid which is fair enough but when people go too far or exaggerate IMO it cheapens the series and is a disservice to all drivers.

[TheDeuce]

HustleRussell said:

TheDeuce said:

HustleRussell said:

I think that again people are guilty of seriously underestimating the level of talent which exists in European international single seater racing.

If you think you could do what Maz is doing and you haven’t even won a major National single seater championship then you need to give your head a wobble.

To me, race winners in F3 and F2 may as well be aliens.

He is the least talented driver to graduate to F1 this year, he is less talented than at least two 2020 F2 drivers I can think of who haven’t graduated, but he did win two feature races and did come 5th in the championship. The guy’s clearly a POS but he is not slow.

Most people seemed to be saying they couldn't do what he does, not that it's easy.

And for sure, he's a fantastic driver - all drivers who get as far as F2 are fantastic drivers. But that doesn't mean they're quite fantastic enough for F1 of course..

I think mazepin is an average F2 driver, who on merit alone would not have found his way to F1. Now he has, and imo he's out of his depth.

I think that even the best F2 driver graduating to F1 will be initially out of their depth. The differences between F2 and F1 are massive currently and (particularly this season), testing is half what it was even last year which was already limited to a degree never before seen in the sport(?)

Every year F1 fans bash the worst driver on the grid which is fair enough but when people go too far or exaggerate IMO it cheapens the series and is a disservice to all drivers.

That's all fair enough. I agree most drivers are out of depth initially as it is a big step up. All things are relative though, and some are hopelessly out of their depth to such an extent that it's not unreasonable to question if the problem is that they have reached the ceiling of their talent, as opposed to temporary unfamiliarity. Not all F2 drivers have what it takes to move on to F1 and continue to evolve and remain competitive. Most who don't have it, don't get the F1 drive in the first place.

I'm not saying as fact that Mazepin won't ever get up to speed.. who knows, perhaps he will. I'm just saying there is nothing in his past or current performances that suggests to me he really is F1 material.

[HustleRussell]

Also I have already been comprehensively outnumbered on this and told that I wasn’t adding anything to the thread (save it for the trolls Deuce) but I watched the Monaco weekend as it happened and I observed that Maz’ times were for the first time close to Micks. They were on different plans at different times on Thursday but it looked like they appeared to be separated by a tenth this way or that.

I haven’t analysed the lap times but even if I take as read somebody else’s analysis that Maz was two tenths slower than Mick, then Monaco was still a step change for Maz from the four previous weekends where the margin was the large part of a second. Also Maz didn’t crash which at Monaco is an achievement.

If I was contriving to create a tabloid-esque controversy out of this I could suggest that Mick was perhaps a little spooked by how much closer his team-mate was.

Edited by HustleRussell on Thursday 3rd June 12:24

[Siao]

HustleRussell said:

Also I have already been comprehensively outnumbered on this and told that I wasn’t adding anything to the thread (save it for the trolls Deuce) but I watched the Monaco weekend as it happened and I observed that Maz’ times were for the first time close to Micks. They were on different plans at different times on Thursday but it looked like they were often separated by a tenth this way or that.

I haven’t analysed the lap times but even if I take as read somebody else’s analysis that Maz was two tenths slower than Mick, then Monaco was still a step change for Maz from the four previous weekends where the margin was the large part of a second. Also Maz didn’t crash which at Monaco is an achievement.

If I was contriving to create a tabloid-esque controversy out of this I could suggest that Mick was perhaps a little spooked by how much closer his team-mate was.

Edited by HustleRussell on Thursday 3rd June 12:16

Uuuuh, not so sure about this. They were on similar strategies in the race, they pitted within 3 laps of each other. I've posted their laps comparison before and while the average lap time comparison is a bit skewed (due to Mick's car issues and team order), their fastest and slowest time differences show that Mick was about 0.4 and 0.6sec faster.

I really can't see how you can claim that Mick is suddenly spooked by his team mate that needed team orders to be ahead and had a race without any car issues. And not binning it by being slow is not the achievement that you want in motor racing really.

[TheDeuce]

Siao said:

HustleRussell said:

Also I have already been comprehensively outnumbered on this and told that I wasn’t adding anything to the thread (save it for the trolls Deuce) but I watched the Monaco weekend as it happened and I observed that Maz’ times were for the first time close to Micks. They were on different plans at different times on Thursday but it looked like they were often separated by a tenth this way or that.

I haven’t analysed the lap times but even if I take as read somebody else’s analysis that Maz was two tenths slower than Mick, then Monaco was still a step change for Maz from the four previous weekends where the margin was the large part of a second. Also Maz didn’t crash which at Monaco is an achievement.

If I was contriving to create a tabloid-esque controversy out of this I could suggest that Mick was perhaps a little spooked by how much closer his team-mate was.

Edited by HustleRussell on Thursday 3rd June 12:16

Uuuuh, not so sure about this. They were on similar strategies in the race, they pitted within 3 laps of each other. I've posted their laps comparison before and while the average lap time comparison is a bit skewed (due to Mick's car issues and team order), their fastest and slowest time differences show that Mick was about 0.4 and 0.6sec faster.

I really can't see how you can claim that Mick is suddenly spooked by his team mate that needed team orders to be ahead and had a race without any car issues. And not binning it by being slow is not the achievement that you want in motor racing really.

I kind of see HR's point, it depends how you read the lap times and how much weight you place on the other factors such as car issues and different strategies etc.

Then we also have to allow for the fact the gap should be less at Monaco regardless, as it's such a short circuit.

Personally I'd be happy to say it's an inconclusive weekend. Maybe it was the start of Mazepin getting comfier and closing in on MS, or maybe MS simply had a stty weekend. I suspect it's the latter, but acknowledge that the picture isn't clear enough to be 100%

Thankfully we have only until tomorrow to see how their FP2 times compare to see if Mazepin is making progress relative to MS

[Siao]

TheDeuce said:

Siao said:

HustleRussell said:

Also I have already been comprehensively outnumbered on this and told that I wasn’t adding anything to the thread (save it for the trolls Deuce) but I watched the Monaco weekend as it happened and I observed that Maz’ times were for the first time close to Micks. They were on different plans at different times on Thursday but it looked like they were often separated by a tenth this way or that.

I haven’t analysed the lap times but even if I take as read somebody else’s analysis that Maz was two tenths slower than Mick, then Monaco was still a step change for Maz from the four previous weekends where the margin was the large part of a second. Also Maz didn’t crash which at Monaco is an achievement.

If I was contriving to create a tabloid-esque controversy out of this I could suggest that Mick was perhaps a little spooked by how much closer his team-mate was.

Edited by HustleRussell on Thursday 3rd June 12:16

Uuuuh, not so sure about this. They were on similar strategies in the race, they pitted within 3 laps of each other. I've posted their laps comparison before and while the average lap time comparison is a bit skewed (due to Mick's car issues and team order), their fastest and slowest time differences show that Mick was about 0.4 and 0.6sec faster.

I really can't see how you can claim that Mick is suddenly spooked by his team mate that needed team orders to be ahead and had a race without any car issues. And not binning it by being slow is not the achievement that you want in motor racing really.

I kind of see HR's point, it depends how you read the lap times and how much weight you place on the other factors such as car issues and different strategies etc.

Then we also have to allow for the fact the gap should be less at Monaco regardless, as it's such a short circuit.

Personally I'd be happy to say it's an inconclusive weekend. Maybe it was the start of Mazepin getting comfier and closing in on MS, or maybe MS simply had a stty weekend. I suspect it's the latter, but acknowledge that the picture isn't clear enough to be 100%

Thankfully we have only until tomorrow to see how their FP2 times compare to see if Mazepin is making progress relative to MS

I see it as a combination of the two frankly. As far as Monaco goes though, when he had the car working, MS was dropping Mazepin easily, so I'm not sure he's sweating just yet. I'll be inclined to assess them properly after the mid season point.

[JonChalk]

We may get an enforced break from him.

His father is saying he has been told he must serve his one-year military service term:

https://grandpx.news/russia-wants-mazepin-to-do-ma...

..hopefully the Russian army have some suitable induction/hazing lined up for him!

[CoolHands]

Maybe that’s a saving face way out

[Petrus1983]

JonChalk said:

We may get an enforced break from him.

His father is saying he has been told he must serve his one-year military service term:

https://grandpx.news/russia-wants-mazepin-to-do-ma...

..hopefully the Russian army have some suitable induction/hazing lined up for him!

“The state doesn’t give a damn about these athletes.”

Athletes