Discussion
Teddy Lop said:
I think half of them have a "highlights of the 80s" five minute reel in their heads tbh.
Although one thing I was saying years ago should be different is more variation in circuits... Challenge them, make them compromise the cars more and flatter different design decisions at various events. Internet told me I was all kinds of wrong as ever so this years joker tracks being considered a highlight is a little pleasing.
I agree, and at least now having been forced to try a greater variety of circuits, some unknown when the cars were designed, can only encourage them to be a little more open minded about more variety in the future. I'd love to see one or two wildcard circuits dropped in to each calendar at the last minute ahead of the start of the season. sure, it would in theory risk the venue not having enough time to sell tickets, but the immense interest new circuits offer makes me think they might not need very long to promote and sell out - in normal times that is.Although one thing I was saying years ago should be different is more variation in circuits... Challenge them, make them compromise the cars more and flatter different design decisions at various events. Internet told me I was all kinds of wrong as ever so this years joker tracks being considered a highlight is a little pleasing.
I Turkey or Mugello had been announced at short notice this season and there was no covid, would they have sold out? I think they probably would. Not to mention Liberty could justify a very reduced hosting fee for such circuits as they get the value from the increase in TV viewers that are excited to see something new.
Teddy Lop said:
TheDeuce said:
There are a fair few on these boards that state they dislike and have no interest in watching F1 these days. Yet they've been on here for several years saying the same old tut
If you push these people as to why F1 was so much better half a century ago, they'll dig up the few examples from a ten year period where something memorable actually occurred - as opposed to bothering to watch the last two seasons we have had where I can't even count the number of exciting moments, meaningful battles and incidents. And by incident I don't mean a third of the grid pulling over with some form of mechanical problem every single race as it used to be.
Although one thing I was saying years ago should be different is more variation in circuits... Challenge them, make them compromise the cars more and flatter different design decisions at various events. Internet told me I was all kinds of wrong as ever so this years joker tracks being considered a highlight is a little pleasing.
This is what formula 1 cars look like.
Everything before looks old, and everything since looks contrived. Why? Because these ground effects cars with the long sidepods were what were current when I was young and first became aware of racing cars. So this is where it started, and everything since has evolved from this to meet rule changes that change the sport that I originally started following.
In his book Into The Red, Mark Hales says for him the Maserati 250F is his quintessential formula 1 car, for the same reasons. Those style of cars were the fastest in the world when he was growing up and if you asked him to draw a formula 1 car in his schoolbook, he'd draw a 250F.
The 2005 cars were weird, narrow things with odd grooved tyres. They only look pretty now compared to a modern car, though to me the modern ones have looked a lot better since they got wider again in 2017.
Formula 1 will never again be the same sport that I first started following. It cannot possibly be, but I can still enjoy watching the Boss series or the Masters events that used to race at Brands. Or Goodwood. But, if I could take my nostalgia out of it, I have to say the racing today, and the excitement of watching, is as good as it's ever been for me. Yes it can change, but that has always been true, and indeed it always has changed. That's why we miss the past even though at the time we didn't think it was perfect and wanted to change it.
For me the last couple of seasons have been great. Stability in the rules has brought closer competition and it will be something of a lottery if the 2022 changes bring everyone closer together or give us another period of domination like the 2014 changes did when Merc got it right.
kiseca said:
Teddy Lop said:
TheDeuce said:
There are a fair few on these boards that state they dislike and have no interest in watching F1 these days. Yet they've been on here for several years saying the same old tut
If you push these people as to why F1 was so much better half a century ago, they'll dig up the few examples from a ten year period where something memorable actually occurred - as opposed to bothering to watch the last two seasons we have had where I can't even count the number of exciting moments, meaningful battles and incidents. And by incident I don't mean a third of the grid pulling over with some form of mechanical problem every single race as it used to be.
Although one thing I was saying years ago should be different is more variation in circuits... Challenge them, make them compromise the cars more and flatter different design decisions at various events. Internet told me I was all kinds of wrong as ever so this years joker tracks being considered a highlight is a little pleasing.
This is what formula 1 cars look like.
Everything before looks old, and everything since looks contrived. Why? Because these ground effects cars with the long sidepods were what were current when I was young and first became aware of racing cars. So this is where it started, and everything since has evolved from this to meet rule changes that change the sport that I originally started following.
In his book Into The Red, Mark Hales says for him the Maserati 250F is his quintessential formula 1 car, for the same reasons. Those style of cars were the fastest in the world when he was growing up and if you asked him to draw a formula 1 car in his schoolbook, he'd draw a 250F.
The 2005 cars were weird, narrow things with odd grooved tyres. They only look pretty now compared to a modern car, though to me the modern ones have looked a lot better since they got wider again in 2017.
Formula 1 will never again be the same sport that I first started following. It cannot possibly be, but I can still enjoy watching the Boss series or the Masters events that used to race at Brands. Or Goodwood. But, if I could take my nostalgia out of it, I have to say the racing today, and the excitement of watching, is as good as it's ever been for me. Yes it can change, but that has always been true, and indeed it always has changed. That's why we miss the past even though at the time we didn't think it was perfect and wanted to change it.
For me the last couple of seasons have been great. Stability in the rules has brought closer competition and it will be something of a lottery if the 2022 changes bring everyone closer together or give us another period of domination like the 2014 changes did when Merc got it right.
Sadly, there are a few around here not blessed with such.... sense. They just want to drag it back to when they first enjoyed it, when summer days were always sunny and lasted forever, when christmas was snowy and when they could still achieve a **** on. I doubt anything F1 could do now for those people will make them happy
TheDeuce said:
Well done - you clearly understand F1 is and always has been an evolutionary sport, and I'm glad you have the open mindedness to still enjoy it!
Sadly, there are a few around here not blessed with such.... sense. They just want to drag it back to when they first enjoyed it, when summer days were always sunny and lasted forever, when christmas was snowy and when they could still achieve a **** on. I doubt anything F1 could do now for those people will make them happy
It's funny. That Shadow has probably half the power, half the downforce and generates half the Gs of a modern F1 car. It wouldn't see which way a 2020 Williams went. Hell, it didn't see which way its contemporary 1980 Williams went either Sadly, there are a few around here not blessed with such.... sense. They just want to drag it back to when they first enjoyed it, when summer days were always sunny and lasted forever, when christmas was snowy and when they could still achieve a **** on. I doubt anything F1 could do now for those people will make them happy
But to me this car and others of this Ground Effects breed, the Lotus, Williams, Tyrells and so on, still look like the fastest racing cars ever made.kiseca said:
TheDeuce said:
Well done - you clearly understand F1 is and always has been an evolutionary sport, and I'm glad you have the open mindedness to still enjoy it!
Sadly, there are a few around here not blessed with such.... sense. They just want to drag it back to when they first enjoyed it, when summer days were always sunny and lasted forever, when christmas was snowy and when they could still achieve a **** on. I doubt anything F1 could do now for those people will make them happy
It's funny. That Shadow has probably half the power, half the downforce and generates half the Gs of a modern F1 car. It wouldn't see which way a 2020 Williams went. Hell, it didn't see which way its contemporary 1980 Williams went either Sadly, there are a few around here not blessed with such.... sense. They just want to drag it back to when they first enjoyed it, when summer days were always sunny and lasted forever, when christmas was snowy and when they could still achieve a **** on. I doubt anything F1 could do now for those people will make them happy
But to me this car and others of this Ground Effects breed, the Lotus, Williams, Tyrells and so on, still look like the fastest racing cars ever made.But I do despair at people that are ONLY happy if things never change. We have to be able to respect and find the positives in what is new - otherwise we might as well jump off a bridge. Or alternatively, spend the rest of their days on these forums pissing on everyone else's chips whilst we're celebrating a couple of excellent seasons
I marshalled throughout the nineties at Brands and Snetterton. I reckon about 450 days of my life in all, watching cars go round a track, on average half a dozen races a day. You do the maths.
While standing there gazing it began to dawn on me that the best overtaking opportunities came when the guy in front made a mistake. In the ‘lower’ club categories most drivers happily were incapable of making it round one lap without screwing up somewhere, so there were some very enjoyable races. The few at the front who messed it up less sailed away into the lead.
As you went up the leagues, say from Formula Ford, to F3, for instance, only the less mistake prone drivers progressed, and guess what? The races became more processional. In my opinion F1 can be short of overtaking, but mainly because the drivers are preselected to be almost infallible.
There are always the exceptions, of course - much to our delight!
DRS was an attempt to rectify this, but its artificiality grates. It strikes me that the majority of non-DRS F1 passes occur after a driver makes himself vulnerable by a mistake, sometimes a seemingly innocuous one, but it gets punished.
To my mind, this is all part of the essence of the sport, and anybody who wants Grands Prix to be start to finish overtake-fests doesn’t really understand what is going on.
Having watched so many races, even at club level, I reckon about one in ten were exciting. After all, we arrange the grid according to track times, and when the light goes green, they simply drive away from each other.
If you really want excitement, watch women’s’ tennis, where two players lob shots at each other’s base line, hoping not to be the first one to make a mistake.
While standing there gazing it began to dawn on me that the best overtaking opportunities came when the guy in front made a mistake. In the ‘lower’ club categories most drivers happily were incapable of making it round one lap without screwing up somewhere, so there were some very enjoyable races. The few at the front who messed it up less sailed away into the lead.
As you went up the leagues, say from Formula Ford, to F3, for instance, only the less mistake prone drivers progressed, and guess what? The races became more processional. In my opinion F1 can be short of overtaking, but mainly because the drivers are preselected to be almost infallible.
There are always the exceptions, of course - much to our delight!
DRS was an attempt to rectify this, but its artificiality grates. It strikes me that the majority of non-DRS F1 passes occur after a driver makes himself vulnerable by a mistake, sometimes a seemingly innocuous one, but it gets punished.
To my mind, this is all part of the essence of the sport, and anybody who wants Grands Prix to be start to finish overtake-fests doesn’t really understand what is going on.
Having watched so many races, even at club level, I reckon about one in ten were exciting. After all, we arrange the grid according to track times, and when the light goes green, they simply drive away from each other.
If you really want excitement, watch women’s’ tennis, where two players lob shots at each other’s base line, hoping not to be the first one to make a mistake.
I can watch any sport, and I used to enjoy watching f1, but not anymore, it simply offers very little to me anymore, is massively predictable usually.
I am the same with football, the endless fouls, falling over, cheating leaves me cold, the only sports I can't really watch are anything to do with horses, but most sport I can watch, and when a sport you have watched for decades simply falls over its own bottom there is no excuse or reason for still watching, and the best bit is I take a mild interest but do not miss watching it in the slightest.
I dont watch tennis much but can do if necessary and the ability of the top players is staggering.
I am the same with football, the endless fouls, falling over, cheating leaves me cold, the only sports I can't really watch are anything to do with horses, but most sport I can watch, and when a sport you have watched for decades simply falls over its own bottom there is no excuse or reason for still watching, and the best bit is I take a mild interest but do not miss watching it in the slightest.
I dont watch tennis much but can do if necessary and the ability of the top players is staggering.
Exige77 said:
TheDeuce said:
Murghee said:
Cant the whole car design change?
I mean would a team be allowed to radically change the way a formula 1 car looks?
....I mean would a team be allowed to radically change the way a formula 1 car looks?
No.
Wait until he sees the fan car!
Murghee said:
Cant the whole car design change?
I mean would a team be allowed to radically change the way a formula 1 car looks?
The 2022 grid:I mean would a team be allowed to radically change the way a formula 1 car looks?
I expect the more the designers learn, the more the designs will converge but it is nice to look to the past and see how much variety there used to be on a grid.
I don't know enough about the technicalities of F1 these days to offer any sensible suggestions, but I did think visiting circuits that hadn't been used before made this season far more entertaining.
At the end of the day the fastest cars with the best drivers have always won races and titles which is surely how it should be!
At the end of the day the fastest cars with the best drivers have always won races and titles which is surely how it should be!
kiseca said:
Murghee said:
Cant the whole car design change?
I mean would a team be allowed to radically change the way a formula 1 car looks?
The 2022 grid:I mean would a team be allowed to radically change the way a formula 1 car looks?
I expect the more the designers learn, the more the designs will converge but it is nice to look to the past and see how much variety there used to be on a grid.
But on a serious note coudnt they change the shape of the car slightly? Like have arches over the front wheels etc
Guess it would become a le mans car then..right scrap that question
Murghee said:
kiseca said:
Murghee said:
Cant the whole car design change?
I mean would a team be allowed to radically change the way a formula 1 car looks?
The 2022 grid:I mean would a team be allowed to radically change the way a formula 1 car looks?
I expect the more the designers learn, the more the designs will converge but it is nice to look to the past and see how much variety there used to be on a grid.
But on a serious note coudnt they change the shape of the car slightly? Like have arches over the front wheels etc
Guess it would become a le mans car then..right scrap that question
They've shown a concept with the 2022 rules which looks rather nice but there's no guarantee that look will translate to the team cars unfortunately.
The 2022 cars should look pretty good. The regs are quite prescriptive so the variations will be in the minor details.
Unfortunately they won't be appreciably smaller and will be heavier.
I really think that the 5 year plan to 2027 should aim to make the cars lighter and preferably smaller while retaining and improving the current safety features.
Unfortunately they won't be appreciably smaller and will be heavier.
I really think that the 5 year plan to 2027 should aim to make the cars lighter and preferably smaller while retaining and improving the current safety features.
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