Spicing up F1

[Gad-Westy]

No love for the fan boost?

[DoubleD]

1Nathan said:

PixelpeepZ4 said:

bring back refuelling.

That added some excitement (READ: fire) and also allows an extra dimension and uncertainty to the strategy mix

The idea that refueling made F1 exciting is a total myth.

From bleacher report "Between 1994 and 2009, when refuelling was used, overtaking was lower than at any point in recent memory. This period saw a huge variety of cars used, from the wider, slick-tyred 1990s machines to the narrower, grooved-tyre cars of the 2000s."

Refueling added to the strategy, but nothing else. It didn't actually make the racing any more interesting. A very easy way is to do as Martin Brundle says and make them use all 3 tyre compounds during a race.

[kiseca]

DoubleD said:

1Nathan said:

PixelpeepZ4 said:

bring back refuelling.

That added some excitement (READ: fire) and also allows an extra dimension and uncertainty to the strategy mix

The idea that refueling made F1 exciting is a total myth.

From bleacher report "Between 1994 and 2009, when refuelling was used, overtaking was lower than at any point in recent memory. This period saw a huge variety of cars used, from the wider, slick-tyred 1990s machines to the narrower, grooved-tyre cars of the 2000s."

Refueling added to the strategy, but nothing else. It didn't actually make the racing any more interesting. A very easy way is to do as Martin Brundle says and make them use all 3 tyre compounds during a race.

They'll do a single lap on the least suited tyre, some at the beginning and some at the end of the race. It would instantly separate the field out.

[DoubleD]

kiseca said:

DoubleD said:

1Nathan said:

PixelpeepZ4 said:

bring back refuelling.

That added some excitement (READ: fire) and also allows an extra dimension and uncertainty to the strategy mix

The idea that refueling made F1 exciting is a total myth.

From bleacher report "Between 1994 and 2009, when refuelling was used, overtaking was lower than at any point in recent memory. This period saw a huge variety of cars used, from the wider, slick-tyred 1990s machines to the narrower, grooved-tyre cars of the 2000s."

Refueling added to the strategy, but nothing else. It didn't actually make the racing any more interesting. A very easy way is to do as Martin Brundle says and make them use all 3 tyre compounds during a race.

They'll do a single lap on the least suited tyre, some at the beginning and some at the end of the race. It would instantly separate the field out.

I disagree, it would add to the race by forcing more pit stops, giving more strategy and increasing over taking. They already have the tyres so it wouldn't cost the teams any more. It's a bit of a no brainer to be honest.

[Gary C]

Big Nanas said:

This has been discussed before. The teams would employ a 'high fuel burn' map on the formation lap to get it down to the bare minimum. F1 are a devious bunch.

Oh yes, thats probably true, like the 'coolant dump' fudge

but crikey, burning 100kgs of fuel on a formation lap !, that would be a sight.

How big would the exhaust flames be

[Gary C]

Gad-Westy said:

No love for the fan boost?

No, it is utter, utter ste.

[Gary C]

DoubleD said:

I disagree, it would add to the race by forcing more pit stops, giving more strategy and increasing over taking. They already have the tyres so it wouldn't cost the teams any more. It's a bit of a no brainer to be honest.

maybe we should just let them race

Get rid of mandated pit stops all together and let them decide if or not they do them.

Give them tyres that don't blister, wear yes but not blister as soon as you use them hard.

Aero is to me a big problem, they could mandate single element front and rear wings but the tricky bds would just use the rest of the car. I did wonder if they could set a max downforce at a set speed, then the aero team would be permitted to move more into efficiency and stability but testing compliance would probably be impossible.

Maybe we should make every designer use a slide rule

The other thing is testing, banning testing was meant to save money, but the cost of the simulators must have exceeded what they spent at a track by now ?
Maybe at 1/3 or 1/2 way though, the lower half teams could be allowed to test extensively during the summer to catch up ?

Or in the end, limit the funds but I cant see how that could ever really work.

Ultimately I can see ICE F1 either dying, or becoming a niche sport in the next 15 years with no manufacturer support.

though, you could argue, whats the problem. since 2008 I have attended quite a few races and they have all been excellent
Looking forward to Silverstone next year.

[marksx]

Gary C said:

Ultimately I can see ICE F1 either dying, or becoming a niche sport in the next 15 years with no manufacturer support.

I think this is a sad truth, and not just for F1 but Motorsport in general.

Honda already pulling out of F1. VW no longer backing any ICE Motorsport.

[Big Nanas]

Forcing teams to use all three tyres in a race really would be incredibly easy to implement.
The tyres all get 'recycled' afterwards anyway, so why not use them?

[HustleRussell]

Big Nanas said:

Remember a couple of years ago FOM did a big fan survey to ask 'what do the fans want?'
They didn't bother publishing the results as it was inconclusive.

And you can read that here and in other threads; there's very little consensus about what we all want.
'More power, less power, let them do want they want, give them a spec engine' etc etc

One of the few things I see a general agreement on is reduction in dirty air from aerodynamics. And that's what the '22 regs are addressing.

All that shows is that, as we should expect, the engineers in the FIA working group (spending tens of thousands of man-hours generating and developing ideas to solve the problems) know more than we do.

[TheDeuce]

HustleRussell said:

All that shows is that, as we should expect, the engineers in the FIA working group (spending tens of thousands of man-hours generating and developing ideas to solve the problems) know more than we do.

Indeed, and they also commit the time to serious and professional discussions taking into account endless factors, ahead of arriving at a set of balanced tweaks that are ultimately mostly proven effective.

That's very different to one person on a forum saying what they think would improve something - as they obviously can't cast that idea to a group of experts that actually work in F1 and have a full appreciation of why their brilliant idea might in fact be a terrible idea for several reasons. Although it's fair to say that in the case of a few of the ideas on here, it should be blindingly obvious to most that they really aren't very good ideas at all.. More a list of 'I wants' without much thought given to the actual practicality or knock on effects.

[Teddy Lop]

I'm beginning to realise I've been doing sports wrong all my life.

I watch and follow the sports I enjoy, such as F1, bike racing and other motorsports, snooker, boxing/cage fighting and more, enjoying different aspects of these different sports. Many sports I don't really enjoy and don't follow, football doesn't bother me and cricket is just tedious.

What I now realise I should have spent my life doing is watching every fking cricket match and then complaining online incessantly about how its boring, how some noise and engines and 200mph would liven it up, or a few roundhouse kicks to the head. Oh well never to late to start - any recommendations on a cricket forum?

[StevieBee]

Big Nanas said:

Remember a couple of years ago FOM did a big fan survey to ask 'what do the fans want?'
They didn't bother publishing the results as it was inconclusive.

One of the things that did emerge from that was the overwhelming demand for more overtaking. And from that we got DRS. This is a good example of F1 (or F1 of the past) to over-engineer a solution. The simplest method would have been to design the regs to significantly reduce the effect of aerodynamics.

We did get more overtaking - but that's not exactly what was meant.

[TheDeuce]

Teddy Lop said:

I'm beginning to realise I've been doing sports wrong all my life.

I watch and follow the sports I enjoy, such as F1, bike racing and other motorsports, snooker, boxing/cage fighting and more, enjoying different aspects of these different sports. Many sports I don't really enjoy and don't follow, football doesn't bother me and cricket is just tedious.

What I now realise I should have spent my life doing is watching every fking cricket match and then complaining online incessantly about how its boring, how some noise and engines and 200mph would liven it up, or a few roundhouse kicks to the head. Oh well never to late to start - any recommendations on a cricket forum?

There are a fair few on these boards that state they dislike and have no interest in watching F1 these days. Yet they've been on here for several years saying the same old tut

If you push these people as to why F1 was so much better half a century ago, they'll dig up the few examples from a ten year period where something memorable actually occurred - as opposed to bothering to watch the last two seasons we have had where I can't even count the number of exciting moments, meaningful battles and incidents. And by incident I don't mean a third of the grid pulling over with some form of mechanical problem every single race as it used to be.

[Teddy Lop]

TheDeuce said:

There are a fair few on these boards that state they dislike and have no interest in watching F1 these days. Yet they've been on here for several years saying the same old tut

If you push these people as to why F1 was so much better half a century ago, they'll dig up the few examples from a ten year period where something memorable actually occurred - as opposed to bothering to watch the last two seasons we have had where I can't even count the number of exciting moments, meaningful battles and incidents. And by incident I don't mean a third of the grid pulling over with some form of mechanical problem every single race as it used to be.

I think half of them have a "highlights of the 80s" five minute reel in their heads tbh.

Although one thing I was saying years ago should be different is more variation in circuits... Challenge them, make them compromise the cars more and flatter different design decisions at various events. Internet told me I was all kinds of wrong as ever so this years joker tracks being considered a highlight is a little pleasing.

[Exige77]

TheDeuce said:

Teddy Lop said:

I'm beginning to realise I've been doing sports wrong all my life.

I watch and follow the sports I enjoy, such as F1, bike racing and other motorsports, snooker, boxing/cage fighting and more, enjoying different aspects of these different sports. Many sports I don't really enjoy and don't follow, football doesn't bother me and cricket is just tedious.

What I now realise I should have spent my life doing is watching every fking cricket match and then complaining online incessantly about how its boring, how some noise and engines and 200mph would liven it up, or a few roundhouse kicks to the head. Oh well never to late to start - any recommendations on a cricket forum?

There are a fair few on these boards that state they dislike and have no interest in watching F1 these days. Yet they've been on here for several years saying the same old tut

If you push these people as to why F1 was so much better half a century ago, they'll dig up the few examples from a ten year period where something memorable actually occurred - as opposed to bothering to watch the last two seasons we have had where I can't even count the number of exciting moments, meaningful battles and incidents. And by incident I don't mean a third of the grid pulling over with some form of mechanical problem every single race as it used to be.

^^^^^He speak the truth !!

[DoubleD]

StevieBee said:

Big Nanas said:

Remember a couple of years ago FOM did a big fan survey to ask 'what do the fans want?'
They didn't bother publishing the results as it was inconclusive.

One of the things that did emerge from that was the overwhelming demand for more overtaking. And from that we got DRS. This is a good example of F1 (or F1 of the past) to over-engineer a solution. The simplest method would have been to design the regs to significantly reduce the effect of aerodynamics.

We did get more overtaking - but that's not exactly what was meant.

You have to presume that it was more complex than just reducing the aerodynamics.

[kambites]

They've tried time and time again to clean up the wake from F1 cars, but so far it's never worked. DRS was a far simpler solution, albeit far from an ideal one.

[CoolHands]

I think drs works well

[TheDeuce]

kambites said:

They've tried time and time again to clean up the wake from F1 cars, but so far it's never worked. DRS was a far simpler solution, albeit far from an ideal one.

Reckon they're on to it this time though, for 2022. The return of ground effect solves a large chunk of the problem at a stroke, and the wind tunnel tests they carried out of the spec test car showed some very significant improvements.

Naturally, the teams will find ways of subverting some of the regs that spec car is based on and the final results won't be quite as desirable as the FIA and FOM might hope... But still, I expect it to solve enough of the problem for it to not be a regular frustration for us or the drivers.