Favourite F1 cars 1980 onwards
Discussion
Dermot O'Logical said:
FourWheelDrift said:
blackmme said:
coppice said:
The 89/90 Larousse Lamborghini was a lovely looking car , but I remember it for its simply wonderful V12 howl . Lower pitched than the almost hysterical Ferrari V12 , and like many NA F1engines , going through a whole orchestra's worth of pitches and notes.
Here's an abject failure the Life L190 , with the W12 which struggled to pull skin from rice pudding . I love it , as it evokes an era when F1 wasn't the virtual spec formula it has become , had much bigger grids and when anybody could rock up and have a crack at pre qualifying .
Bloody hell there’s a picture of it moving!Here's an abject failure the Life L190 , with the W12 which struggled to pull skin from rice pudding . I love it , as it evokes an era when F1 wasn't the virtual spec formula it has become , had much bigger grids and when anybody could rock up and have a crack at pre qualifying .
It didn't complete a second lap, obviously.
The sad thing is with a lot of these teams like Andrea Moda, Life, and a few others, it was often not the car that was hopeless, it was the team, or the management.
The Andrea Moda was not a bad car at all, but Sassetti was a total moron, and neither were a few of those cars back then. I would say that car was far less of a failure than say the Porsche Footwork or Coloni Subaru, with far more budget
The one I always loved was the Yamaha V8 Zakspeed, decent drivers, but it was utterly hopeless, looked lovely though.
I think most from back then have a soft spot for teams like Coloni, Osella/Fondmetal, Eurobrun AGS etc, if only you could somehow get back to needing to prequalify!
The Andrea Moda was not a bad car at all, but Sassetti was a total moron, and neither were a few of those cars back then. I would say that car was far less of a failure than say the Porsche Footwork or Coloni Subaru, with far more budget
The one I always loved was the Yamaha V8 Zakspeed, decent drivers, but it was utterly hopeless, looked lovely though.
I think most from back then have a soft spot for teams like Coloni, Osella/Fondmetal, Eurobrun AGS etc, if only you could somehow get back to needing to prequalify!
Couldn't agree more. I loved the diversity in the sport , from watching yet another doomed attempt by Frank Williams to get somewhere (which he did obviously , in the end ) to brave but hopeless efforts like the Tecno in 1973 . I actually enjoyed watching races with a big budget team lapping a no hoper every few laps - and then those no hopers did stuff nobody expected - like Hesketh and Leyton House.
I saw the Renault F1 turbo's spluttering debut at Silverstone - how we laughed at the very idea of a turbo . We're not laughing now ....
I saw the Renault F1 turbo's spluttering debut at Silverstone - how we laughed at the very idea of a turbo . We're not laughing now ....
I think there was a little bit of that dust sprinkled on the three new entrants of the last decade era, Manor/Marussia, Caterham and HRT. The plucky underdogs.
Not likely to happen now though is it?
I often think it’s a shame there isn’t a way for GP2 teams to make the step up like in the old days but the regulations just mean it’s impossible now, the difference in spend and resources is off the scale. Presumably Campos are the last to attempt it?
F1 obviously have some form of contingency plan in place as it’s not like you’d imagine every team to be completely secure-look at Renault and Haas for starters. Even Honda pulling out must have had them concerned.
I guess the problem is getting to within even 2 seconds a lap of the cars now is going to be expensive and it would still lead you to getting lapped an awful lot!
Not likely to happen now though is it?
I often think it’s a shame there isn’t a way for GP2 teams to make the step up like in the old days but the regulations just mean it’s impossible now, the difference in spend and resources is off the scale. Presumably Campos are the last to attempt it?
F1 obviously have some form of contingency plan in place as it’s not like you’d imagine every team to be completely secure-look at Renault and Haas for starters. Even Honda pulling out must have had them concerned.
I guess the problem is getting to within even 2 seconds a lap of the cars now is going to be expensive and it would still lead you to getting lapped an awful lot!
LaurasOtherHalf said:
I think there was a little bit of that dust sprinkled on the three new entrants of the last decade era, Manor/Marussia, Caterham and HRT. The plucky underdogs.
Not likely to happen now though is it?
I often think it’s a shame there isn’t a way for GP2 teams to make the step up like in the old days but the regulations just mean it’s impossible now, the difference in spend and resources is off the scale. Presumably Campos are the last to attempt it?
F1 obviously have some form of contingency plan in place as it’s not like you’d imagine every team to be completely secure-look at Renault and Haas for starters. Even Honda pulling out must have had them concerned.
I guess the problem is getting to within even 2 seconds a lap of the cars now is going to be expensive and it would still lead you to getting lapped an awful lot!
All good points. A potential strategy would be to simplify F1 aero and regulations massively, reduce budget cap to say £70m, improve the sound through N/A engines and allow promotion from, and relegation to, F2. As manufactures leave F1 and ICE technology behind, it would give F1 some relevance, attract new entrants and would return F1 more of a drivers' championship. I could see DAMS, Carlin etc jumping at the opportunity.Not likely to happen now though is it?
I often think it’s a shame there isn’t a way for GP2 teams to make the step up like in the old days but the regulations just mean it’s impossible now, the difference in spend and resources is off the scale. Presumably Campos are the last to attempt it?
F1 obviously have some form of contingency plan in place as it’s not like you’d imagine every team to be completely secure-look at Renault and Haas for starters. Even Honda pulling out must have had them concerned.
I guess the problem is getting to within even 2 seconds a lap of the cars now is going to be expensive and it would still lead you to getting lapped an awful lot!
Edited by Piginapoke on Sunday 31st January 08:57
Edited by Piginapoke on Sunday 31st January 08:58
If you do a bit of research there are SO many teams that got even as far as car design without entering. Dome, Honda, Campos, BMW in the 90's before Williams, FIRST, Reynard, and that is only the few I can recall.
But I do think some of the ones that did enter were simply poorly managed like Andrea Moda, Life etc.
But I do think some of the ones that did enter were simply poorly managed like Andrea Moda, Life etc.
LukeBrown66 said:
If you do a bit of research there are SO many teams that got even as far as car design without entering. Dome, Honda, Campos, BMW in the 90's before Williams, FIRST, Reynard, and that is only the few I can recall.
But I do think some of the ones that did enter were simply poorly managed like Andrea Moda, Life etc.
How about the Mastercard Lola? Didn't that actually make it to practice for the first race of the season before having the plug pulled?But I do think some of the ones that did enter were simply poorly managed like Andrea Moda, Life etc.
That appeared to be a car from a team with the right pedigree to actually make the grade in Formula 1, only to fall at the very last hurdle.
Dermot O'Logical said:
How about the Mastercard Lola? Didn't that actually make it to practice for the first race of the season before having the plug pulled?
That appeared to be a car from a team with the right pedigree to actually make the grade in Formula 1, only to fall at the very last hurdle.
There is an excellent episode of the Missed Apex Podcast talking to the designer who has now written a book about the whole experience.That appeared to be a car from a team with the right pedigree to actually make the grade in Formula 1, only to fall at the very last hurdle.
https://missedapexpodcast.com/episode-list/2019/10...
Fascinating listen, literally every single part of the endeavour was rushed or wrong.
blackmme said:
Dermot O'Logical said:
How about the Mastercard Lola? Didn't that actually make it to practice for the first race of the season before having the plug pulled?
That appeared to be a car from a team with the right pedigree to actually make the grade in Formula 1, only to fall at the very last hurdle.
There is an excellent episode of the Missed Apex Podcast talking to the designer who has now written a book about the whole experience.That appeared to be a car from a team with the right pedigree to actually make the grade in Formula 1, only to fall at the very last hurdle.
https://missedapexpodcast.com/episode-list/2019/10...
Fascinating listen, literally every single part of the endeavour was rushed or wrong.
dr_gn said:
Not listened to it yet, but IIRC Eric Broadley decided that he didn't need a wind tunnel to define the aerodynamics...might be apocryphal.
Broadly (excuse the pun) true but actually they could have had the best wind tunnel in the world and the timing that were committed to wouldn’t have enabled them to exploit it.Eric seems to have thought that it was mainly a suspension geometry issue.
LukeBrown66 said:
If you do a bit of research there are SO many teams that got even as far as car design without entering. Dome, Honda, Campos, BMW in the 90's before Williams, FIRST, Reynard, and that is only the few I can recall.
And then there were cars that were tested but never raced. Toyota TS101
McLaren MP4-18
the early Toyota was a test hack, but also wasn't there a thing Toyota did where they paid for the years licence and fees before actually competing, so they could test a hell of a lot?
Listen to Mcnish talking about this car, it was not much good, but as I say it pounded round Ricard for day after day picking up data for the proper car.
Listen to Mcnish talking about this car, it was not much good, but as I say it pounded round Ricard for day after day picking up data for the proper car.
blackmme said:
There is an excellent episode of the Missed Apex Podcast talking to the designer who has now written a book about the whole experience.
https://missedapexpodcast.com/episode-list/2019/10...
Fascinating listen, literally every single part of the endeavour was rushed or wrong.
Not the designer, the commercial guy https://missedapexpodcast.com/episode-list/2019/10...
Fascinating listen, literally every single part of the endeavour was rushed or wrong.
Info
I find it strange that Lola wouldn't use a wind tunnel as they had their own on site at the factory.
n3il123 said:
Not the designer, the commercial guy
Info
I find it strange that Lola wouldn't use a wind tunnel as they had their own on site at the factory.
I do apologise, I was getting confused with this Autosport Podcast covering the rather similar story from 4 years earlier of the Lola built for Scuderia ItaliaInfo
I find it strange that Lola wouldn't use a wind tunnel as they had their own on site at the factory.
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/142837/podcast-h...
FourWheelDrift said:
entropy said:
That 2001 TF101 car looks like a Williams FW20 from 1998.In terms of unraced cars, surely the McLambo MP4/8B is the most intriguing, and well as lovely looking in plain white livery:
Does anybody remember Yamaha's ill-fated attempt at Formula 1? Legend has it that when a new engine fired up for the first time, one of the engineers would click a stopwatch, just to see how long it lasted.
A (typically curmudgeonly) appraisal from Joe Saward can be enjoyed here:
https://www.grandprix.com/features/joe-saward/news...
Yamaha subsequently tried to find an outlet for the engines in a limited production road car:
https://news.yahoo.com/rare-yamaha-f1-engined-prot...
It occurs to me that the thread has suffered some "mission creep", and I must confess some guilt in this regard. It could perhaps be re-titled "Grand Prix racing's glorious failures".
A (typically curmudgeonly) appraisal from Joe Saward can be enjoyed here:
https://www.grandprix.com/features/joe-saward/news...
Yamaha subsequently tried to find an outlet for the engines in a limited production road car:
https://news.yahoo.com/rare-yamaha-f1-engined-prot...
It occurs to me that the thread has suffered some "mission creep", and I must confess some guilt in this regard. It could perhaps be re-titled "Grand Prix racing's glorious failures".
LukeBrown66 said:
the early Toyota was a test hack, but also wasn't there a thing Toyota did where they paid for the years licence and fees before actually competing, so they could test a hell of a lot?
Listen to Mcnish talking about this car, it was not much good, but as I say it pounded round Ricard for day after day picking up data for the proper car.
I can't remember exactly. I thought Toyota got special treatment from the FIA via Bernie for allowing them high testing mileage and access to most of the then active circuits - including Spa I seem to recall. Highly controversial at the time and many teams were against this. Looking back its laughable, Mika Salo in the Beyond The Grid podcast admitted the car was sListen to Mcnish talking about this car, it was not much good, but as I say it pounded round Ricard for day after day picking up data for the proper car.
t!Dermot O'Logical said:
Does anybody remember Yamaha's ill-fated attempt at Formula 1? Legend has it that when a new engine fired up for the first time, one of the engineers would click a stopwatch, just to see how long it lasted.
There's a tale, it might be apocryphal of one of the renowned UK F1 engine specialists (like John Judd or Brian Hart) undertaking a test run of one of the in-development Yamaha engines on his dyno, then looking underneath it. When asked why he responded that he was looking for all of the lost horsepower as though perhaps it had run out into a puddle on the floor Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff