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My son is 11 and an absolute car geek and he so much wants to be an engineer in the motor industry and ideally F1.
By the time he is working in the car industry, combustion engines will be on the way out - do you think this will affects the skills and qualifications the next generation of F1/car engineers should be focusing on?
By the time he is working in the car industry, combustion engines will be on the way out - do you think this will affects the skills and qualifications the next generation of F1/car engineers should be focusing on?
marine boy said:
Sandpit Steve said:
They’re no longer allowed to have an assembled “T Car” ready to go, but keep more than enough spares around to build one (or two!) up if required. Scrutineering is open every morning during the event for a team who want to use a new chassis. The complicating factor in recent years has been the major mechanicals (PU components and transmissions) which have a reliability standard, changing them can attract sporting penalties so they often have to disassemble the crashed car first to get them out!
Shame a few idiots always have to spoil a good thread so hoping this gets the topic back on track......We stopped the use of a T Car when we did a qualifying only car at ? in 1999. Our car wasn't the quickest but we spotted a loop hole in the rules and exploited it
It's always satisfying knowing you pushed the rules so far the FIA need to change the rules to stop other teams doing what they're doing. 1/3rd of the engine cover weight was paint (without primer or under coat), you could see daylight peeking through the 0.15mm carbon skinned sandwich panel bodywork before it was painted
Magnesium wheels were machined down to 1.9mm rim thickness, they would turn into egg shaped wheel if the driver started hopping the kerbs
Only the wiring/sensors req'd to run the car were kept, all other electrical gubbins were removed, including telemetry
Legality plank/skids skimmed down to just above legal minimum as well as skimming down the brake discs and pads to just above minimum wear limits
No 1st gear and the aluminium fabricated oil tank was acid etched pocketed down to 0.6mm
Raciest modification were magnesium engine heads that warped after one qually session of 12 laps, the inconel headers were also thinned down to 0.4mm and were usually scrap to after one qually session
Small fuel tank just enough for only 12 laps
From memory we saved 5kgs which is a huge chunk off an F1 car back then, I'm sure we did more but I've forgotten it or didn't know about it
Logistically there was only enough race team resource to qualify with one qually only car and be able to convert it back to full race spec. so the drivers took it turns to use it
All the mods were good for 0.3 secs a lap of to push the driver up the grid from back of the mid-pack to front of the mid-pack
One of my favourite F1 car projects, really enjoyed trying to scratch out the weight, learnt a lot of where the limit was when designing parts
Edited by marine boy on Thursday 11th March 21:34
A1Diego said:
My son is 11 and an absolute car geek and he so much wants to be an engineer in the motor industry and ideally F1.
By the time he is working in the car industry, combustion engines will be on the way out - do you think this will affects the skills and qualifications the next generation of F1/car engineers should be focusing on?
A degree in Aeronautical Engineering is and still will be the most common way into becoming an F1 engineer. Aside from that, by the time he goes to university Mechanical and Automotive Engineering degrees should have evolved to suit the times.By the time he is working in the car industry, combustion engines will be on the way out - do you think this will affects the skills and qualifications the next generation of F1/car engineers should be focusing on?
If he doesn’t want to go down the university route, I’m not sure. But every college Mechanics courses should be evolving with the times.
Nothing beats practical experience as well, so find an amateur racer / team that needs a runner/spanner monkey winning to work for free and wants to soak up knowledge.
A1Diego said:
My son is 11 and an absolute car geek and he so much wants to be an engineer in the motor industry and ideally F1.
By the time he is working in the car industry, combustion engines will be on the way out - do you think this will affects the skills and qualifications the next generation of F1/car engineers should be focusing on?
Finite Element Analysis and Computational Fluid Dynamics will continue to be key skills. As well as healthy understanding of dynamic systems and materials engineering.By the time he is working in the car industry, combustion engines will be on the way out - do you think this will affects the skills and qualifications the next generation of F1/car engineers should be focusing on?
There's a lot of that in aerospace engineering, but you can tailor modules in some Mechanical engineering courses to be almost identical to an Aero course by the final year.
There are also good formula student teams at many universities.
Nampahc Niloc said:
A1Diego said:
My son is 11 and an absolute car geek and he so much wants to be an engineer in the motor industry and ideally F1.
By the time he is working in the car industry, combustion engines will be on the way out - do you think this will affects the skills and qualifications the next generation of F1/car engineers should be focusing on?
A degree in Aeronautical Engineering is and still will be the most common way into becoming an F1 engineer. Aside from that, by the time he goes to university Mechanical and Automotive Engineering degrees should have evolved to suit the times.By the time he is working in the car industry, combustion engines will be on the way out - do you think this will affects the skills and qualifications the next generation of F1/car engineers should be focusing on?
If he doesn’t want to go down the university route, I’m not sure. But every college Mechanics courses should be evolving with the times.
Nothing beats practical experience as well, so find an amateur racer / team that needs a runner/spanner monkey winning to work for free and wants to soak up knowledge.
I would, if the opportunity arose, give very serious consideration to returning to Williams F1, they are a great bunch.
Now a new chapter of family involvement in Motorsport has started, my daughter is a 2nd year apprentice, with Williams F1 in the composites dept, she had no wish to go into the engineering side.
Although commenting as a industry outsider, I would imagine in terms of qualifications, if the drivetrain follows the general trend of ICE to electric, it shouldn't affect the rest of the engineering areas that significantly?
While courses will take into account the current knowledge, it's probably worth keeping in mind that the very best in F1 likely started while sequential gearboxes were in their infancy, never mind hybrid/ electric drivetrains.
Get in at whatever the current stage is and progress from there
While courses will take into account the current knowledge, it's probably worth keeping in mind that the very best in F1 likely started while sequential gearboxes were in their infancy, never mind hybrid/ electric drivetrains.
Get in at whatever the current stage is and progress from there
Ahonen said:
TheDeuce said:
Total loss said:
jsf said:
I should check, but i thought the front is still fully manual without power assist.
You tend to use between 1:3 and 1:5 on a brake pedal, too big a ratio gives a long pedal, no driver likes that as your feedback is all about pressure, you want literally zero travel for best performance.
I don't know about the fronts, they could be still fully mechanical, I've read before about F1 brakes being electrically activated, I assumed both front & rear?You tend to use between 1:3 and 1:5 on a brake pedal, too big a ratio gives a long pedal, no driver likes that as your feedback is all about pressure, you want literally zero travel for best performance.
I was being very simplistic with my explanation, probably too much, yes pedal feel is everything, not all drivers preferring the same set up, when you have different drivers driving the same car, some will say alls good and another will say the brakes require too much effort or the pedal is too long!
Obviously if it's still mechanically linked to the front and unassisted then that resistance is there regardless of preference.
Dashnine said:
Just picking up this topic again, it’d interesting that you can see how little work the rear brakes do on an F1 car from the white wheels of the AlphaTauri car during testing in Bahrain. After a few laps the front wheels are black from brake dust, the rears are still pristine white.
Isn’t that because the fronts are red hot carbon and the rears are now regenerating the batteries?Edited to add, it’s not possible to say “Retardation” without sounding like David Coulthard.
Edited by tight fart on Sunday 14th March 20:13
tight fart said:
Dashnine said:
Just picking up this topic again, it’d interesting that you can see how little work the rear brakes do on an F1 car from the white wheels of the AlphaTauri car during testing in Bahrain. After a few laps the front wheels are black from brake dust, the rears are still pristine white.
Isn’t that because the fronts are red hot carbon and the rears are now regenerating the batteries?No idea how much braking comes from regen on an F1 car but I can say in my car that at speed it's astonishing how much retardation comes from regen alone. If I come off the 'throttle' at 80mph in high regen mode it feels like hard braking, without the pads ever touching the discs. As a passenger you'd slide forwards in the seat.
tight fart said:
Dashnine said:
Just picking up this topic again, it’d interesting that you can see how little work the rear brakes do on an F1 car from the white wheels of the AlphaTauri car during testing in Bahrain. After a few laps the front wheels are black from brake dust, the rears are still pristine white.
Isn’t that because the fronts are red hot carbon and the rears are now regenerating the batteries?Edited to add, it’s not possible to say “Retardation” without sounding like David Coulthard.
Edited by tight fart on Sunday 14th March 20:13
ETA: As it’s not the heat turning the front wheels black, just the brake dust.
Edited by Dashnine on Sunday 14th March 22:27
Dashnine said:
tight fart said:
Dashnine said:
Just picking up this topic again, it’d interesting that you can see how little work the rear brakes do on an F1 car from the white wheels of the AlphaTauri car during testing in Bahrain. After a few laps the front wheels are black from brake dust, the rears are still pristine white.
Isn’t that because the fronts are red hot carbon and the rears are now regenerating the batteries?Edited to add, it’s not possible to say “Retardation” without sounding like David Coulthard.
Edited by tight fart on Sunday 14th March 20:13
As F1 looks towards further electrification we could see a motor on the front axle as well, and as a result regen there too, at which point all 4 wheels can be expected to remain fairly shiny for a GP distance
Thanks to the OP and other knowledgeable contributors for some fascinating insights.
With regards to brake balance - Is the indication of brake balance on the steering wheel that we see on in-car shots any way of telling?
From memory last season 54-58% is the adjustment band we see the drivers fiddling with.
Also (and in a very different direction), in a normal pre-covid season, with corporate entertainment in full flow for one team:
How many HGVs worth of kit (everything from tyres to branded napkins) are typical at European race, and how many at a flyaway event.
With regards to brake balance - Is the indication of brake balance on the steering wheel that we see on in-car shots any way of telling?
From memory last season 54-58% is the adjustment band we see the drivers fiddling with.
Also (and in a very different direction), in a normal pre-covid season, with corporate entertainment in full flow for one team:
How many HGVs worth of kit (everything from tyres to branded napkins) are typical at European race, and how many at a flyaway event.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Do you actually watch any F1 coverage as this has all been covered in recent years, certainly on Sky F1 who followed a hospitality centre (can’t really call them motor homes anymore) from strip down to build on back to back GPs (about a day to strip, and a day to build).No.
Only when celebrating a championship, first win, etc. But not at the circuit as strip down is already underway.
Yes, mainly off circuit, on plane shares, etc.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
The Euro hospitality builds are massive and take a week to put together, they are temporary buildings, not motorhomes. The drivers often stay in their own motor homes at the Euro venues, otherwise in nearby Hotels.There is a team who prep every garage pre event that is employed by F1, they prep and then repaint the floors ready for the teams to arrive and setup, you also have a team of guys that install the data coms kit in each garage the FIA use to link with the teams. It's a pretty impressive amount of work that goes on before the car team buildup starts.
It varies by event if the teams have a bash, often as soon as the race is done it's a scramble for lots of the team to get to the airport, others will do the car strip/prep for transport, teardown of the garage kit etc then head for the airport or hotel. Some events if time allows you have a pissup organised. A good one is at the US GP in downtown Austin.
Pre Covid hit everyone mixes, it's all bubbles right now so the social side is pretty dead.
TheDeuce said:
Clearly the white wheels show the brake dust better than the others and yes, the fronts take the lions share of friction braking so get covered in dust. Nothing to do with heat, it's just friction. More friction at the front = more brake dust.
Maybe I’m being pedantic, but friction braking is EVERYTHING to do with heat. That’s exactly how friction braking works: kinetic energy —> heat energy. Therefore more heat means more deceleration. Of course, heat and brake temperature are different things, as it depends on how well the brakes are cooled.Nampahc Niloc said:
TheDeuce said:
Clearly the white wheels show the brake dust better than the others and yes, the fronts take the lions share of friction braking so get covered in dust. Nothing to do with heat, it's just friction. More friction at the front = more brake dust.
Maybe I’m being pedantic, but friction braking is EVERYTHING to do with heat. That’s exactly how friction braking works: kinetic energy —> heat energy. Therefore more heat means more deceleration. Of course, heat and brake temperature are different things, as it depends on how well the brakes are cooled.Sometimes you just wish you hadn't bothered as people grab hold of the wrong end of the stick and pull, hard...
Nampahc Niloc said:
TheDeuce said:
Clearly the white wheels show the brake dust better than the others and yes, the fronts take the lions share of friction braking so get covered in dust. Nothing to do with heat, it's just friction. More friction at the front = more brake dust.
Maybe I’m being pedantic, but friction braking is EVERYTHING to do with heat. That’s exactly how friction braking works: kinetic energy —> heat energy. Therefore more heat means more deceleration. Of course, heat and brake temperature are different things, as it depends on how well the brakes are cooled.Yes friction braking does exchange kinetic > heat (mostly - if we're to be super pedantic).
jsf said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
The Euro hospitality builds are massive and take a week to put together, they are temporary buildings, not motorhomes. The drivers often stay in their own motor homes at the Euro venues, otherwise in nearby Hotels.There is a team who prep every garage pre event that is employed by F1, they prep and then repaint the floors ready for the teams to arrive and setup, you also have a team of guys that install the data coms kit in each garage the FIA use to link with the teams. It's a pretty impressive amount of work that goes on before the car team buildup starts.
It varies by event if the teams have a bash, often as soon as the race is done it's a scramble for lots of the team to get to the airport, others will do the car strip/prep for transport, teardown of the garage kit etc then head for the airport or hotel. Some events if time allows you have a pissup organised. A good one is at the US GP in downtown Austin.
Pre Covid hit everyone mixes, it's all bubbles right now so the social side is pretty dead.
The data comms stuff has really come on in the last few years, certainly on the FIA side of it. They have a lot of very impressive systems which use a lot of tech which has to be very portable.
I know there are some social events that happen regularly, there was one at Monza, I think on the saturday evening which was run by the fire marshalls. Massive karaoke, I don't recall any drivers being there but there were a lot of team folks, that was entertaining.
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