2021 F1 cars thread
Discussion
thegreenhell said:
It's up to them only within the rules that are applied. The FIA are signed up to the WADA agreement, so ultimately it's their call whether it breaks any rules or not. They've stopped a whole nation from competing at the Olympics, so I don't think they'll have any trouble stopping one team from running the banned flag on their car if that's what they choose to do.
the stupid bit, as far as i can tell is that Schumacher could run that livery ...as it's Russian athletes, not teams that are banned from displaying the Russian flagthegreenhell said:
TheDeuce said:
I'm aware that very recently changing their logo to look like the flag, for the sake of having the flag on the car when they're not allowed to is VERY underhanded. However, whatever their true motivation, as a sponsor it's up to them what logo they use on the car. It can't be disproven that it's their logo if they say that it is.
Naturally, it would be a good idea if they changed it on their website too! Just for the sake of making the their manipulation of the rules a little less blatant...
Certainly no shortage of drama surrounding Mazepin jnr as he slithers awkwardly in to F1!
It's up to them only within the rules that are applied. The FIA are signed up to the WADA agreement, so ultimately it's their call whether it breaks any rules or not. They've stopped a whole nation from competing at the Olympics, so I don't think they'll have any trouble stopping one team from running the banned flag on their car if that's what they choose to do.Naturally, it would be a good idea if they changed it on their website too! Just for the sake of making the their manipulation of the rules a little less blatant...
Certainly no shortage of drama surrounding Mazepin jnr as he slithers awkwardly in to F1!
But what right or ability do they have to tell a sponsor that they can't use something similar to a countries flag as their logo, or at least if they do... they can't use it on the car or drivers...? Obviously Mazepin only wants to use that logo now as a work around to get the flag on the car. BUT, it's not impossible that a sponsor could have had a logo on the cars for years that looked a bit like a national flag which was never a concern - until that nation was found to be doping and banned from being represented in international sports. Would that sponsors logo also be struck?
angrymoby said:
thegreenhell said:
It's up to them only within the rules that are applied. The FIA are signed up to the WADA agreement, so ultimately it's their call whether it breaks any rules or not. They've stopped a whole nation from competing at the Olympics, so I don't think they'll have any trouble stopping one team from running the banned flag on their car if that's what they choose to do.
the stupid bit, as far as i can tell is that Schumacher could run that livery ...as it's Russian athletes, not teams that are banned from displaying the Russian flagIt would be different if it literally was the Russian flag - but it's not, it's just a logo designed strongly resemble the Russian flag.. In the same way as about a million USA businesses incorporate the USA flag in to their logos in endless ways. Any such business could have sponsored Ferrari if they had so chosen - and then what if the USA were caught doping and received the same ban? Would a valuable Ferrari sponsor be told by WADA to change their long established logo or p
s off and stop being a sponsor?? It's a bit of a dangerous precedent to set as sponsors are actually quite valuable and tend to want their message displayed how they would like it displayed..It's a despotic Russian billionaire who is attached to the leader of a country responsible for state sponsored terrorism and assassinations and is using F1 as Russian propaganda in defiance of WADA whilst at the time getting his son into F1. I wouldn't worry that annoying him might stop teams getting actual commercial sponsorship in future.
If anything, attaching F1 to people like him will make genuine sponsors think twice about the association.
On the plus side HAAS staff can now benefit from cheap deals on Russian gas and Novichok.
If anything, attaching F1 to people like him will make genuine sponsors think twice about the association.
On the plus side HAAS staff can now benefit from cheap deals on Russian gas and Novichok.
TheDeuce said:
That's my point! It can't be deemed against the rules as it's not, it's simply against what WADA want, in this particular instance.
It would be different if it literally was the Russian flag - but it's not, it's just a logo designed strongly resemble the Russian flag.. In the same way as about a million USA businesses incorporate the USA flag in to their logos in endless ways. Any such business could have sponsored Ferrari if they had so chosen - and then what if the USA were caught doping and received the same ban? Would a valuable Ferrari sponsor be told by WADA to change their long established logo or ps off and stop being a sponsor?? It's a bit of a dangerous precedent to set as sponsors are actually quite valuable and tend to want their message displayed how they would like it displayed..
again, Uralkali changed their color scheme after the FIA signed upto WADA or even WADA's ban ...RAFA, Haas, Uralkali, Mazepin should have known this, as it was also bought up last year about Daniil KvyatIt would be different if it literally was the Russian flag - but it's not, it's just a logo designed strongly resemble the Russian flag.. In the same way as about a million USA businesses incorporate the USA flag in to their logos in endless ways. Any such business could have sponsored Ferrari if they had so chosen - and then what if the USA were caught doping and received the same ban? Would a valuable Ferrari sponsor be told by WADA to change their long established logo or p
s off and stop being a sponsor?? It's a bit of a dangerous precedent to set as sponsors are actually quite valuable and tend to want their message displayed how they would like it displayed..& it is a Russian flag, not merely the 'same' colors
There are easy ways to circumnavigate falling foul of that, change the order, remove the red pin stripe border around the white, use Uralkali's actual color scheme- but Haas, Uralkali, Mazepin have decided not to
RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:
It's a despotic Russian billionaire who is attached to the leader of a country responsible for state sponsored terrorism and assassinations and is using F1 as Russian propaganda in defiance of WADA whilst at the time getting his son into F1. I wouldn't worry that annoying him might stop teams getting actual commercial sponsorship in future.
If anything, attaching F1 to people like him will make genuine sponsors think twice about the association.
On the plus side HAAS staff can now benefit from cheap deals on Russian gas and Novichok.
Yea the guys an aIf anything, attaching F1 to people like him will make genuine sponsors think twice about the association.
On the plus side HAAS staff can now benefit from cheap deals on Russian gas and Novichok.
hole and this is a blatant attempt to undermine Russia's 'ban'.I'm not saying he should be allowed to carry on with the 'not quite a flag' logo. I'm just saying that I don't see a specific rule broken - it's not actually the Russian flag, it's just similar enough to ensure anyone seeing it thinks 'Russia'.
It's difficult situation as it's very common for logo's to play on national flags/symbolism.
angrymoby said:
& it is a Russian flag, not merely the 'same' colors
Is it actually though? Flags designs have set proportions and layout, it's a very exact thing. Make a couple of small changes and everyone would still see the same flag - except it wouldn't technically be the official flag.This article shows the correct form of the Union Jack, along with a couple of ways it's often rendered incorrectly: http://www.jdawiseman.com/papers/union-jack/union-...
thegreenhell said:
Well it's nothing like their actual corporate logo either.
They can use anything they choose as their logo. They can have 300 different logos including this one that conveniently they devised just after realising the rules prevent them using the flag that their mate in Kremlin might really like them to use...Still not rule breaking.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Damn that Williams is devoid of sponsors, what on earth is going wrong there?
Delayed reaction due to the results for the last several years? They did come last again last season...Also, is it fair to say the team is simply a little less special/interesting now the family connection is gone?
TheDeuce said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Damn that Williams is devoid of sponsors, what on earth is going wrong there?
Delayed reaction due to the results for the last several years? They did come last again last season...Also, is it fair to say the team is simply a little less special/interesting now the family connection is gone?
KR158 said:
TheDeuce said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Damn that Williams is devoid of sponsors, what on earth is going wrong there?
Delayed reaction due to the results for the last several years? They did come last again last season...Also, is it fair to say the team is simply a little less special/interesting now the family connection is gone?
But that paint job is minging.
angrymoby said:
TheDeuce said:
Is it actually though? Flags designs have set proportions and layout
it's a simple tricolour ...with 3 equal fields in a certain order & of specific rgb valuesEdited by angrymoby on Friday 5th March 19:54
By your example, several different nations flag is the same flag - just flipped or rotated
End of the day, if mazepin says that is their logo for F1 purposes then that's an absolute. I'm certain that if asked the administration in Russia would confirm that in their opinion it doesn't actually look like the Russian flag at all...
Piginapoke said:
I don't think its too much to worry about. Williams are now backed by an investment firm, so have resources to fall back on even without sponsors. It's all about 2022, if the team could push the fast forward button for this season, it would. I'd expect more sponsors (and a better car) next year.
But that paint job is minging.
Agree with all of that, especially the last bit But that paint job is minging.
What does it matter this year anyway? This era the costs peaked as did the complexity of the sport - it killed Williams. There is nothing good they can do until 2022 at the earliest, so I'd forgive them a very lightweight effort with the car this season. I'd very much hope they put all they can in to the new era car.
angrymoby said:
TheDeuce said:
By your example, several different nations flag is the same flag - just flipped or rotated
i.e not the sameI think mazepins and Haas's standing is actually fairly solid. The logo they use isn't technically 'the flag'. End of story.
TheDeuce said:
I apologise for the daftness of my example.. but the point stands. A flag is a precise thing, it's considered an insult if a mildly incorrect flag is raised for a visiting dignitory...
I think mazepins and Haas's standing is actually fairly solid. The logo they use isn't technically 'the flag'. End of story.
ill fwd your expert opinion onto WADAI think mazepins and Haas's standing is actually fairly solid. The logo they use isn't technically 'the flag'. End of story.
& in the meantime ill bookmark this for later comment
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