Official 2021 Bahrain Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***
Discussion
mw88 said:
DanielSan said:
If he isn't in the Mercedes for next season, I think he will be but then that means precisely nout anyway, surely the question has to start being asked about whether Toto/Mercedes are wasting the best years of his career?
He's what, 23/24 now? He proved he was more than capable of being in the car last year, and proved he should be in the car this year. If for the 3rd time his chance in the team is delayed I can't see how there's a positive spin on that situation? I know drivers careers tend to go on longer now but by modern F1 standards to be near enough 24/25 and 4 years into his career with no upward trajectory in terms of results through none of his own doing doesn't exactly scream a well managed situation. And of course, how long can he keep his head up for waiting for that move to Mercedes if another season goes by and he hasn't had the nod.
Especially after seeing Verstappen at Red Bull and LeClerc at Ferrari get the move after just one year in the sport.
As harsh as this sounds, I don't think Toto has George's best interests in mind - Mercedes don't want another Hamilton/Rosberg issue if they put Russel in the seat and he's quick. It wasn't that long ago that Ocon was in-line for that second Mercedes seat.He's what, 23/24 now? He proved he was more than capable of being in the car last year, and proved he should be in the car this year. If for the 3rd time his chance in the team is delayed I can't see how there's a positive spin on that situation? I know drivers careers tend to go on longer now but by modern F1 standards to be near enough 24/25 and 4 years into his career with no upward trajectory in terms of results through none of his own doing doesn't exactly scream a well managed situation. And of course, how long can he keep his head up for waiting for that move to Mercedes if another season goes by and he hasn't had the nod.
Especially after seeing Verstappen at Red Bull and LeClerc at Ferrari get the move after just one year in the sport.
Edited by DanielSan on Wednesday 31st March 22:16
Before Ocon, people were certain that Wehrlein would be in the car.
Teams having junior programmes is great, but seats in the top team don't become available quick enough once the young drivers progress. Look how many drivers that Red Bull have bank-rolled through their careers.
As someone said on pH some time back, Merc negotiated to buy Russell out of his contract, Williams wouldn't budge, Merc gave up and offered contract to Bottas instead, Russell raced for Merc and did great, Toto chooses to honour contract with Bottas and not go after Russell again.
That sounds most likely scenario to me. Saying they don't want another Hamilton Rosberg issue doesn't neccessarily equate to not wanting two fast drivers, it equates to not wanting two warring drivers... which is certainly more likely when they're both similarly paced and in a car that could give them a title of course. But it doesn't have to be that way. Prost and Lauda got on fine. Prost and Rosberg Sr got on fine. Hakkinen and DC got on OK though Hakkinen was definitely the better driver. Hamilton and Button got on fine. I'd say, to get the second car up to speed (would have been really handy for them this year), they'd take the risk rather than pass up the opportunity.
paulguitar said:
stemll said:
So Lewis to Alpine alongside Alonso then? 
They're Toleman (sort of)
Good call, but I think sparta and deltona require Hamilton to win in an actual, period Toleman. They're Toleman (sort of)
If Hamilton turns up in a 1984 Toleman and wins the championship, it will be because 1984 cars are so much better than current ones and "Senna would have whipped his butt". And if he wins while Bottas comes stone last in the other Toleman, it will be because Bottas is a crap driver and should be coming first or second in that awesome Toleman every race.
Even more so if he moves to Alpine, wins, and also kicks Alonso's butt again (over the hill, too long out of the sport, would have whipped Hamilton in 2014, etc etc), it will be because Alpine suddenly built the best car on the grid and Hamilton lucked into it again.
Exige77 said:
MiniMan64 said:
super7 said:
Aston Martin / Mercedes would do well to dump Vettel and plonk Russell in instead....... even if they have to buy Russell out of his Williams Contract.
They should have done it this year. I suspect the negations would be pretty straight forward....
super7 said:
Aston Martin / Mercedes would do well to dump Vettel and plonk Russell in instead....... even if they have to buy Russell out of his Williams Contract.
merc would make it happen, but I don't think someone as primed as georgy boy is the right development pathway daddy has in mind for jnr. The highly adorned washup is close to perfect for this stage in his career - undeniable grandeur yet very assailable.Hamilton clearly isn’t getting it all his own way from 2022 because they didn’t get a multi-year deal signed. I think Toto is thinking about succession even if it pushes Hamilton away. Russell’s a shoe-in for a Mercedes drive and if Hamilton walks there are any number of high calibre drivers who’d jump at the chance.
ralphrj said:
WickerBill said:
I think both views are valid.
In the short term Toto would rather have Lewis in the car, hes a proven leader and winner so why change?
The problem is in the long term that doesnt work. Lewis WILL retire at some point and you need a proven driver to take over. Charles has commited to Ferrari, if Red Bull do well then Max will commit to Red Bull, so that leaves George....he cant stay with Williams in 2022, either he needs promoting to Mercedes or start on his own in another midfield team...problem is those seats are few and far between.
Hamilton is the kingpin here, the big 'problem' is if he doesnt retire at the end of the year. Its either BAD news for Russell, or fireworks at Mercedes.
I don't know if it has already been commented on here but Zak Brown thinks that it will be Verstappen and Russell at Mercedes next year.In the short term Toto would rather have Lewis in the car, hes a proven leader and winner so why change?
The problem is in the long term that doesnt work. Lewis WILL retire at some point and you need a proven driver to take over. Charles has commited to Ferrari, if Red Bull do well then Max will commit to Red Bull, so that leaves George....he cant stay with Williams in 2022, either he needs promoting to Mercedes or start on his own in another midfield team...problem is those seats are few and far between.
Hamilton is the kingpin here, the big 'problem' is if he doesnt retire at the end of the year. Its either BAD news for Russell, or fireworks at Mercedes.
Verstappen is actually under contract with Red Bull for 2022 and 2023 but has an exit clause he can use at the end of this year.
HustleRussell said:
Hamilton clearly isn’t getting it all his own way from 2022 because they didn’t get a multi-year deal signed. I think Toto is thinking about succession even if it pushes Hamilton away. Russell’s a shoe-in for a Mercedes drive and if Hamilton walks there are any number of high calibre drivers who’d jump at the chance.
What would the benefit of a multi year contract be for Lewis at this stage?TheDeuce said:
HustleRussell said:
Hamilton clearly isn’t getting it all his own way from 2022 because they didn’t get a multi-year deal signed. I think Toto is thinking about succession even if it pushes Hamilton away. Russell’s a shoe-in for a Mercedes drive and if Hamilton walks there are any number of high calibre drivers who’d jump at the chance.
What would the benefit of a multi year contract be for Lewis at this stage?HustleRussell said:
TheDeuce said:
HustleRussell said:
Hamilton clearly isn’t getting it all his own way from 2022 because they didn’t get a multi-year deal signed. I think Toto is thinking about succession even if it pushes Hamilton away. Russell’s a shoe-in for a Mercedes drive and if Hamilton walks there are any number of high calibre drivers who’d jump at the chance.
What would the benefit of a multi year contract be for Lewis at this stage?It strikes me that the assumption that he would not be happy with or even have stipulated a single year contract comes down to basic conventional wisdom "more is better", which would indeed apply to most F1 drivers for several reasons, but many of those reasons don't apply to Lewis anymore.
biggrim said:
Not sure if this has been posted yet but sure someone mentioned it earlier in the thread.
https://whendidmazepinspin.com/
Ask and ye shall receive lol
Fab! https://whendidmazepinspin.com/
Ask and ye shall receive lol
HustleRussell said:
TheDeuce said:
HustleRussell said:
Hamilton clearly isn’t getting it all his own way from 2022 because they didn’t get a multi-year deal signed. I think Toto is thinking about succession even if it pushes Hamilton away. Russell’s a shoe-in for a Mercedes drive and if Hamilton walks there are any number of high calibre drivers who’d jump at the chance.
What would the benefit of a multi year contract be for Lewis at this stage?FFS....
Wills2 said:
HustleRussell said:
TheDeuce said:
HustleRussell said:
Hamilton clearly isn’t getting it all his own way from 2022 because they didn’t get a multi-year deal signed. I think Toto is thinking about succession even if it pushes Hamilton away. Russell’s a shoe-in for a Mercedes drive and if Hamilton walks there are any number of high calibre drivers who’d jump at the chance.
What would the benefit of a multi year contract be for Lewis at this stage?FFS....
Exige77 said:
Wills2 said:
HustleRussell said:
TheDeuce said:
HustleRussell said:
Hamilton clearly isn’t getting it all his own way from 2022 because they didn’t get a multi-year deal signed. I think Toto is thinking about succession even if it pushes Hamilton away. Russell’s a shoe-in for a Mercedes drive and if Hamilton walks there are any number of high calibre drivers who’d jump at the chance.
What would the benefit of a multi year contract be for Lewis at this stage?FFS....
And in all seriousness by winning last weekends GP under such enormous pressure from Max and failing tyres he proved once again that he's a driver that can get ther finest result possible on track, whatever car he drives - so Mercedes will obviously be very happy to retain him.
I also don't see Mercedes having a problem putting George and Lewis together 22' and beyond. But this season is all about Lewis and securing that record re-writing 8th WDC whilst at Merc, that has to be the main goal right now and trumps them worrying about what happens after Lewis 'may' depart. As it turns out they look to have a real fight on their hands with Red Bull, but of course that wasn't a known factor when they negotiated the contract.
Flip the question though.. Why might Lewis want to commit himself for just a single year? It gives him the maximum amount of flexibility for his future for one thing, and that's a hugely desirable position for a driver that is almost certainly going to be re-signed again by Merc for 22' if he wishes it, but can also walk in to pretty much any other seat at another team if he wants to.
Imagine if by the summer break this season RB have a large lead and the analysts are broadly agreeing that the reason is the Honda PU is enjoying a considerable power advantage and as a result they can pile on more aero. That would bode very well indeed for RB going in to 22' and Lewis might think it's time to jump ship at Merc. Or he could simply be undecided about continuing in F1 full stop. These are just wild examples of reasons he might want extra flexibility over his future. The point however is that getting that extra flexibility by demanding a single year contract doesn't cost him anything, so why not have it? Any other driver would want the security of a multi year contract, but Lewis has that security regardless, purely because he's Lewis and remains very hot property in the paddock.
Blib said:
After he gets 8 titles maybe Lewis will fancy a shot at winning the title with Ferrari? Achieving that task may well stop most, if not all snipers.
I get why that idea excites people, and perhaps it even excites Lewis - although the culture at Ferrari still appears from the outside at least to be at odds with the super-progressive culture at Mercedes, which Lewis himself aligns with very closely.The biggest problem I have with the idea he could go to Ferrari however, is that I don't believe they can offer him a realistic shot at winning a title! Surely Lewis would struggle to hand on heart believe that was likely at team red these days too. Don't get me wrong, they have in recent years arguably had a couple of cars at least equal performance-wise to the Mercs, but even in those seasons Ferrari have managed to make a complete hash of it regardless of who their drivers have been.
I'm not sure anything would satisfy the doubters.
I suspect that many Ferrari fans don't care who is in their car, as long as they win a Championship again. They'd probably be better off campaigning to get Verstappen in the Ferrari. Or even Russell now I think about it. But it's not like Ferrari don't already have a top notch driver in Leclerc - the problem right now is the car, not the driver.
I suspect that many Ferrari fans don't care who is in their car, as long as they win a Championship again. They'd probably be better off campaigning to get Verstappen in the Ferrari. Or even Russell now I think about it. But it's not like Ferrari don't already have a top notch driver in Leclerc - the problem right now is the car, not the driver.
ELUSIVEJIM said:
Now look back at his full video instead of a snippet that planetf1 have used to twist his words....he was actually conflicted in his answer, not a slam dunk ‘max shouldn’t have got a penalty’ and also said max hadn’t completed the pass on the circuitWickerBill said:
ELUSIVEJIM said:
Now look back at his full video instead of a snippet that planetf1 have used to twist his words....he was actually conflicted in his answer, not a slam dunk ‘max shouldn’t have got a penalty’ and also said max hadn’t completed the pass on the circuitIn the end he would have to braked a little sooner and scrubbed a little more speed to avoid leaving the circuit, and if he had had done that he wouldn't have made a successful pass.
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