Official 2021 Portugal Grand Prix Thread **SPOILERS**

[TheDeuce]

WantSagaris said:

Wouldn't bet against a similar scenario as we saw with Ferrari in 17-18, where Merc up it in the latter half of the season having kept some in reserve.

Merc style is to attempt to win by the slimmest margin possible.. They may well be being more conservative than RB in terms of PU stress for example. RB being known to be more 'hell for leather' to steal an opportunity.

Although was 18' the year where Ferrari started with a good car, then 'developed' it in to a crap car, and then in the second half of the season took it back to original spec and started to be competitive again. Oh Ferrari...

[resolve10]

TheDeuce said:

resolve10 said:

TheDeuce said:

If they have indeed got top of their tyre woes then red bull are very much on the back foot in terms of WCC simply because Perez just isn't consistently close enough to Max..

He outqualified him last time out. Strange comment based off two races!

Not strange at all. Max made a mistake in quali which was easy to identify and he would have been substantially quicker without it.

Obviously 'on the day' that time Perez was quicker... But I did use the word 'consistently' for a reason

I meant it was strange in the sense that you're trying to judge consistency from two races... give him 4-5 races and see where he's at then. He will outscore Bottas over the season I reckon.

[TheDeuce]

resolve10 said:

TheDeuce said:

resolve10 said:

TheDeuce said:

If they have indeed got top of their tyre woes then red bull are very much on the back foot in terms of WCC simply because Perez just isn't consistently close enough to Max..

He outqualified him last time out. Strange comment based off two races!

Not strange at all. Max made a mistake in quali which was easy to identify and he would have been substantially quicker without it.

Obviously 'on the day' that time Perez was quicker... But I did use the word 'consistently' for a reason

I meant it was strange in the sense that you're trying to judge consistency from two races... give him 4-5 races and see where he's at then. He will outscore Bottas over the season I reckon.

That is bold.

Bottas is very easily (and fairly) criticised for having poor adaptability and race craft compared to Lewis. But on a good day with no issues, in terms of raw pace bottas is right up there with Lewis - as evidenced the numerous times he's been just behind or ahead of Lewis by thousandths in quali.

I do rate Perez as a driver, and he could well master the RB and challenge Bottas in the Merc. He'll need to find a big chunk of pace to do so though.

[HustleRussell]

carinaman said:

At Imola was it just Max that pulled away in second on the dry line, or do we know if Perez pulled away in second too?

According to Ed Straw a number of drivers started in 2nd including Norris. Don’t know about Perez. I wonder how big a part the PU manufacturer plays in deciding how the start is run.

[HustleRussell]

TheDeuce said:

resolve10 said:

TheDeuce said:

resolve10 said:

TheDeuce said:

If they have indeed got top of their tyre woes then red bull are very much on the back foot in terms of WCC simply because Perez just isn't consistently close enough to Max..

He outqualified him last time out. Strange comment based off two races!

Not strange at all. Max made a mistake in quali which was easy to identify and he would have been substantially quicker without it.

Obviously 'on the day' that time Perez was quicker... But I did use the word 'consistently' for a reason

I meant it was strange in the sense that you're trying to judge consistency from two races... give him 4-5 races and see where he's at then. He will outscore Bottas over the season I reckon.

That is bold.

Bottas is very easily (and fairly) criticised for having poor adaptability and race craft compared to Lewis. But on a good day with no issues, in terms of raw pace bottas is right up there with Lewis - as evidenced the numerous times he's been just behind or ahead of Lewis by thousandths in quali.

I do rate Perez as a driver, and he could well master the RB and challenge Bottas in the Merc. He'll need to find a big chunk of pace to do so though.

You’re an engineer aren’t you Deuce?

I’m not sure the word ‘consistently’ belongs in a conversation about two race weekends in a new team with a car which is about the opposite of what he is used to.

Perez’ race pace was good in Bahrain. Imola was far too disrupted to be used to support such a sweeping statement.

[HustleRussell]

HurryUpAndWait said:

TheDeuce said:

JonChalk said:

edit: ...oh, and Mazepin really is useless, 3 seconds off Schumacher.

Genuinely looks like F1 is just too much him. He's either 1-2 seconds off MS pace in a given session, or he pulls a bit closer and then spins or runs very wide trying. The guy just wasn't ready for F1, and may simply never be at that level - not all proficient FP2 drivers can make the leap. He wasn't even amongst the group of FP2 drivers that would normally be given an F1 opportunity.

He’s as far from his team mate as his team mate is from P1… blimey.

I despise Mazepin but there is absolutely no chance he is 3s slower than Sch on the same programme barring mistakes.

I would be interested to know how they compare in terms of prior Portimao experience. It looks a difficult track to get right.

Would expect him to be within half a second of Sch come qualifying. Still not something to write home to mother Russia about though.

[JonChalk]

HustleRussell said:

HurryUpAndWait said:

TheDeuce said:

JonChalk said:

edit: ...oh, and Mazepin really is useless, 3 seconds off Schumacher.

Genuinely looks like F1 is just too much him. He's either 1-2 seconds off MS pace in a given session, or he pulls a bit closer and then spins or runs very wide trying. The guy just wasn't ready for F1, and may simply never be at that level - not all proficient FP2 drivers can make the leap. He wasn't even amongst the group of FP2 drivers that would normally be given an F1 opportunity.

He’s as far from his team mate as his team mate is from P1… blimey.

I despise Mazepin but there is absolutely no chance he is 3s slower than Sch on the same programme barring mistakes.

I would be interested to know how they compare in terms of prior Portimao experience. It looks a difficult track to get right.

Would expect him to be within half a second of Sch come qualifying. Still not something to write home to mother Russia about though.

You're correct; he dragged himself up to 1.1 seconds slower by the end of FP2.

As far as I can tell, neither he nor Schumacher have raced here before in a senior series - F2, F3, Formula 3 - might be wrong, though.

(from https://www.racefans.net/2021/04/30/hamilton-keeps...

Edited by JonChalk on Saturday 1st May 07:10

[Piginapoke]

I wonder how much fuel the Alpines were running. No way they have improved that much in two weeks.

[SpudLink]

Slightly off topic.

Does anyone know who is providing the safety and medical cars this weekend? I thought they were alternating between Merc and Aston, so was expecting AM. However I saw Aston Martin’s F1 support vehicles being thrashed around Silverstone yesterday.
So, assuming it’s AM in Portugal, they obviously have more vehicles than the ones at the circuit. I always figured they just shipped the same cars around the world.

[Piginapoke]

The folk looking at the drain covers yesterday were in a Merc.

[TheDeuce]

HustleRussell said:

TheDeuce said:

resolve10 said:

TheDeuce said:

resolve10 said:

TheDeuce said:

If they have indeed got top of their tyre woes then red bull are very much on the back foot in terms of WCC simply because Perez just isn't consistently close enough to Max..

He outqualified him last time out. Strange comment based off two races!

Not strange at all. Max made a mistake in quali which was easy to identify and he would have been substantially quicker without it.

Obviously 'on the day' that time Perez was quicker... But I did use the word 'consistently' for a reason

I meant it was strange in the sense that you're trying to judge consistency from two races... give him 4-5 races and see where he's at then. He will outscore Bottas over the season I reckon.

That is bold.

Bottas is very easily (and fairly) criticised for having poor adaptability and race craft compared to Lewis. But on a good day with no issues, in terms of raw pace bottas is right up there with Lewis - as evidenced the numerous times he's been just behind or ahead of Lewis by thousandths in quali.

I do rate Perez as a driver, and he could well master the RB and challenge Bottas in the Merc. He'll need to find a big chunk of pace to do so though.

You’re an engineer aren’t you Deuce?

I’m not sure the word ‘consistently’ belongs in a conversation about two race weekends in a new team with a car which is about the opposite of what he is used to.

Perez’ race pace was good in Bahrain. Imola was far too disrupted to be used to support such a sweeping statement.

Actually I said he hasn't consistently been close enought to max - which to your point must be true, if there has not yet been sufficient time to establish a constant..

But of course what I meant, if perhaps not perfectly worded, was that so far he hasn't given me the impression he's as close to max on performance terms as bottas is to Lewis - and I accept it is early days and I may be proven wrong.

[TheDeuce]

JonChalk said:

HustleRussell said:

HurryUpAndWait said:

TheDeuce said:

JonChalk said:

edit: ...oh, and Mazepin really is useless, 3 seconds off Schumacher.

Genuinely looks like F1 is just too much him. He's either 1-2 seconds off MS pace in a given session, or he pulls a bit closer and then spins or runs very wide trying. The guy just wasn't ready for F1, and may simply never be at that level - not all proficient FP2 drivers can make the leap. He wasn't even amongst the group of FP2 drivers that would normally be given an F1 opportunity.

He’s as far from his team mate as his team mate is from P1… blimey.

I despise Mazepin but there is absolutely no chance he is 3s slower than Sch on the same programme barring mistakes.

I would be interested to know how they compare in terms of prior Portimao experience. It looks a difficult track to get right.

Would expect him to be within half a second of Sch come qualifying. Still not something to write home to mother Russia about though.

You're correct; he dragged himself up to 1.1 seconds slower by the end of FP2.

As far as I can tell, neither he nor Schumacher have raced here before in a senior series - F2, F3, Formula 3 - might be wrong, though.

(from https://www.racefans.net/2021/04/30/hamilton-keeps...

Edited by JonChalk on Saturday 1st May 07:10

This really depends how pace Vs likelihood of making an error is judged.

On a good day I'd fully expect that mazepin, in the same car, should and probably would be within a couple of tenths on most laps.

The problem seems to be that maintaining such pace for mazepin seems to elevate the chances of session ruining mistakes being made.

I think quali today will be crucial for him. If he can get close to MS time and complete the session cleanly, he'll get a useful boost of confidence. On the other hand, if he doesn't get within half a second of MS it'd be fair to assume he driving nervous of making another mistake.

[Sandpit Steve]

SpudLink said:

Slightly off topic.

Does anyone know who is providing the safety and medical cars this weekend? I thought they were alternating between Merc and Aston, so was expecting AM. However I saw Aston Martin’s F1 support vehicles being thrashed around Silverstone yesterday.
So, assuming it’s AM in Portugal, they obviously have more vehicles than the ones at the circuit. I always figured they just shipped the same cars around the world.

Mercedes this weekend. They take two SCs and MCs to each event, but pretty sure they are always of the same make, rather than one Merc and one A-M.

Presumably they have a couple of spare SCs and MCs made up and ready to go, for logistics reasons or in case of an accident. Probably a couple more they use for exhibitions and shows too, I sat in a safety car at Goodwood FoS a few years ago.

[SpudLink]

Sandpit Steve said:

SpudLink said:

Slightly off topic.

Does anyone know who is providing the safety and medical cars this weekend? I thought they were alternating between Merc and Aston, so was expecting AM. However I saw Aston Martin’s F1 support vehicles being thrashed around Silverstone yesterday.
So, assuming it’s AM in Portugal, they obviously have more vehicles than the ones at the circuit. I always figured they just shipped the same cars around the world.

Mercedes this weekend. They take two SCs and MCs to each event, but pretty sure they are always of the same make, rather than one Merc and one A-M.

Presumably they have a couple of spare SCs and MCs made up and ready to go, for logistics reasons or in case of an accident. Probably a couple more they use for exhibitions and shows too, I sat in a safety car at Goodwood FoS a few years ago.

There were two of each at Silverstone yesterday.
(And the Speedster in naked carbon fibre, which was something to behold.)

[48k]

TheDeuce said:

Merc style is to attempt to win by the slimmest margin possible..

I don't understand this comment. Every race is a moving target as teams develop cars in different areas at different points in time, and circuit conditions and weather conditions are unpredictable too far in advance. They're not trying to beat a fixed target it's a constantly moving target. So surely all they can do is do the best they can for each race and hope that it's good enough?

[TheDeuce]

48k said:

TheDeuce said:

Merc style is to attempt to win by the slimmest margin possible..

I don't understand this comment. Every race is a moving target as teams develop cars in different areas at different points in time, and circuit conditions and weather conditions are unpredictable too far in advance. They're not trying to beat a fixed target it's a constantly moving target. So surely all they can do is do the best they can for each race and hope that it's good enough?

I was thinking of choosing what single compromise power mode to select for both race & quali - as one example of judging the win by the slimmest margin, thinking of longer term reliability gains

[Sandpit Steve]

TheDeuce said:

I was thinking of choosing what single compromise power mode to select for both race & quali - as one example of judging the win by the slimmest margin, thinking of longer term reliability gains

Same in the medium term, they stopped developing the car about eight races from the end of last season, so they could move their resources onto the new cars.

[Byker28i]

P3 I'd say looks like Hamilton will just grab pole from Verstappen, but it';; be down to traffic or who gets the perfect run

[Byker28i]

Mazespin

Although Mick Schumacher in 15th shows the cars OK
Bottas up in the mix and perez as well. Could be a great season.

edit:
Aston Martin came with upgrades but hasn't done anything?

Edited by Byker28i on Saturday 1st May 13:05

[Adrian W]

Sky are really annoying, talking about Portimao , but not once mention that it was all about money, and when F1 were desperate they said we will play on your track.