Ayrton Senna

Ayrton Senna

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LukeBrown66

850 posts

12 months

Thursday 6th May
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One thing I can always guarantee is that when there is a discussion about Senna or even Schumacher, there will be a majority who worship the men and a small number who do not, and actually think they are a little bit not over rated but put on a pedestal that their talent does not deserve.

And if you state this, there will usually be people calling you out for it, and using all sorts of rather unsavoury words against you, as has happened to me and Eric in this thread.

Prost does not get into this as he was not exciting, not flamboyant, he was studious, political to some degree. But what a lot of people do not know, is he fell foul of the press and politics as many times as he won.

The friendship these two had in the end was a massive bonus for Alain, it made everything alright, he understood it ALL. And that is what matters. At the time the hatred was real, it was huge and it was the biggest thing in the sport, add in stuff like Mansell, Piquet, Schumacher on the scene, the tech, the cars and it is no wonder that despite the fact the racing was not always great, that era is always quoted as the best

kiseca

9,119 posts

185 months

Thursday 6th May
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I was reluctant to contribute to this thread because it is about remembering a great talent on the anniversary of his death, so I've tried to be careful while responding and trying to remain respectful to his memory, and will continue to do so in this thread.

I agree that Schumacher and Senna divide opinion, I think that is actually true for most drivers of note, but these two can be particularly divisive.

From me, there were parts to Senna's character that made him hard for me to like, I was never a big fan of his, but I do think his talent is beyond dispute and he could well be the fastest driver I'll ever see in Formula 1. His ability to find speed in a car, to read the road and conditions, and just that fascinating ability he seemed to have to focus in a way that no other drivers seemed to do, or at least do so obviously. He was king of the thousand yard stare in a field full of experts.

A flawed, fascinating character who changed the sport forever.

Muzzer79

4,892 posts

153 months

Thursday 6th May
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BlimeyCharlie said:
To continually speak ill of someone who died as the result of an accident is (at best) in poor taste.
No-one is speaking ill of Senna the man.

Senna the racing driver was deeply flawed and made mistakes. There’s nothing disrespectful about saying that.

pablo

15,596 posts

239 months

Friday 7th May
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LukeBrown66 said:
One thing I can always guarantee is that when there is a discussion about Senna or even Schumacher, there will be a majority who worship the men and a small number who do not, and actually think they are a little bit not over rated but put on a pedestal that their talent does not deserve.

And if you state this, there will usually be people calling you out for it, and using all sorts of rather unsavoury words against you, as has happened to me and Eric in this thread.

Prost does not get into this as he was not exciting, not flamboyant, he was studious, political to some degree. But what a lot of people do not know, is he fell foul of the press and politics as many times as he won.

The friendship these two had in the end was a massive bonus for Alain, it made everything alright, he understood it ALL. And that is what matters. At the time the hatred was real, it was huge and it was the biggest thing in the sport, add in stuff like Mansell, Piquet, Schumacher on the scene, the tech, the cars and it is no wonder that despite the fact the racing was not always great, that era is always quoted as the best
Jesus wept Luke, no one on this thread has said anything about hero worship other than you and Eric! you’re simply taking a contrary position to something no one has actually put forward but are now acting like the victim because you were called out.

I’ll make it easy for you, I think Senna was one of the greatest, I supported him with a passion no more or less than others supposed Mansell, Senna was definitely top five all time, he made mistakes and was human, he didn’t always race fair and he wasn’t a god.

LukeBrown66

850 posts

12 months

Friday 7th May
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My point was not just about this forum, when you get this topic online or on social media, it is always full of very passionate people who never like hearing anything remotely anti their favourite. This forum is relatively benign compared to Facebook!!


Fortitude

492 posts

158 months

Sunday 9th May
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ELUSIVEJIM said:
I can't see the issue about wanting to debate what happened to Senna.

The Williams was a skittish car but in slow corners. Both Hill and Senna made mistakes during practice and qualifying sessions. Hill spun the Williams on the last corner at Imola twice but all at low speed. Senna did the same at Villeneuve at low speed.

Regarding the cold tyres if this was the case then why did Senna not crash on the first restart lap? He set the lap record on that last lap which was only beaten later in the 2nd race. A lap of Imola would have had the tyres at the perfect temperature before the accident.

The simple fact is Senna was a passenger in the Williams after the car had an issue. The verdict as follows.

The Italian Court of Appeal, on 13 April 2007, stated the following in the verdict numbered 15050: "It has been determined that the accident was caused by a steering column failure. This failure was caused by badly designed and badly executed modifications. The responsibility of this falls on Patrick Head, culpable of omitted control".
Fatal Weekend
by Tom Rubython (Author)

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fatal-Weekend-Tom-Rubytho...

I can't recommend this book enough. It covers that Italian judgment and doesn't disagree with it.

LukeBrown66

850 posts

12 months

Sunday 9th May
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Rubython is not someone most traditional F1 hacks have ANY time for I am afraid.

thiscocks

2,589 posts

161 months

Monday 10th May
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Everyone knows the court case was a complete joke that happened just to serve some law which shouldn't apply to a sport.

ELUSIVEJIM

Original Poster:

8,170 posts

117 months

Wednesday 12th May
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thiscocks said:
Everyone knows the court case was a complete joke that happened just to serve some law which shouldn't apply to a sport.
You mean the truth finally came out.