Official 2021 Spanish Grand Prix Thread **SPOILERS**

[Nampahc Niloc]

SmoothCriminal said:

RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:

jm doc said:

In Italy Max literally knocked Hamilton out of the way in the first corner. In Spain he similarly gave him no room and would have collided if Hamilton hadn't run off the track to avoid him. In both cases no action was taken by the stewards. If it had been the other way round RB would have been screaming blue murder.

I suspect at some point in the future, Max will get what he deserves and we'll see how well he copes then.

In Italy Hamilton allowed Max space to his left right off the start, well before T1, when he could have covered it off. In Spain he didn't cover off Max on the run down to T1. In both, Verstappen took the racing line in the first corner and bears no blame, as far as I can see.

No doubt this season we'll have at least one controversial bash up between them, though.

I said this both times watching the races, Lewis is giving max too much space and not defending I can't work out why he is doing it.

Hamilton has said as much himself. I think it was after Imola when he said he moved over to pass Bottas then knew immediately that he had made a mistake, because he had let Max have a tow off Bottas.

[Exige77]

SmoothCriminal said:

I said this both times watching the races, Lewis is giving max too much space and not defending I can't work out why he is doing it.

Maybe because Lewis wants to win ?

Max likes a good crash.

When there’s a coming together, you can’t always predict the outcome. Sure Lewis has the confidence he can better Max in a straight fight so prefers to keep his powder dry.

It’s proven to be correct this last 4 races.

Re DR, there is no point comparing him to Max at their time together in RB.

It was a few years ago and it was a young Max on his way up. He’s much improved now. RB could see the trajectory and favoured fragile Max for what could be the future Max. They where correct it seems.

DR is a good driver but not the highest level. Good enough to be the best of the no2 RB drivers but only if he is willing. He wasn’t and walked. He preferred his bank account to having a good car. You can’t blame him for that.

[ettore]

SmoothCriminal said:

I said this both times watching the races, Lewis is giving max too much space and not defending I can't work out why he is doing it.

He’s 3:1 up - that’s why? To finish first etc etc

He’s spoken about it in a pretty open way. I’m sure there’ll be a shunt upcoming!

[CustardOnChips]

ettore said:

SmoothCriminal said:

I said this both times watching the races, Lewis is giving max too much space and not defending I can't work out why he is doing it.

He’s 3:1 up - that’s why? To finish first etc etc

He’s spoken about it in a pretty open way. I’m sure there’ll be a shunt upcoming!

Its not difficult to understand. Lewis is giving Max space, because otherwise Max would crash into Lewis. And then its a lottery as to whether he finishes the race or not.

At some point during the season they will crash. The more times Lewis wins when Max has been in front, the more desperate Max will get and invoke the spirit of Rosberg.

[stemll]

Wills2 said:

Flooble said:

Deesee said:

Top stat




Red Bull really struggling on the C2 tyres at race end.

That is a stunning statistic and really makes you wonder given the 3:1 win ratio. Spain and Italy will have skewed it, but you do have to feel for Max.

If I was Mercedes I would by now be deeply concerned at the way Red Bull are able to consistently jump them at the start. No point qualifying on pole if you are already second going into Turn 2.

In the same way there is no point leading the race if you get overtaken in the final laps, these stats are pointless..

Quite. You only need to lead for one lap so long as that lap is the last one. In the same way that there are no points on Saturday, there are also no points for the first 65 laps.

[kiseca]

stemll said:

Wills2 said:

Flooble said:

Deesee said:

Top stat




Red Bull really struggling on the C2 tyres at race end.

That is a stunning statistic and really makes you wonder given the 3:1 win ratio. Spain and Italy will have skewed it, but you do have to feel for Max.

If I was Mercedes I would by now be deeply concerned at the way Red Bull are able to consistently jump them at the start. No point qualifying on pole if you are already second going into Turn 2.

In the same way there is no point leading the race if you get overtaken in the final laps, these stats are pointless..

Quite. You only need to lead for one lap so long as that lap is the last one. In the same way that there are no points on Saturday, there are also no points for the first 65 laps.

There was prize money for the first 65 (or something) laps though. Not sure if there still is today but I do remember Ken Tyrrell complaining when Alesi was leading a race and lost the lead a lap before the halfway point, because there was prize money attached to whoever was leading at half distance.

[Northernboy]

SmoothCriminal said:

I said this both times watching the races, Lewis is giving max too much space and not defending I can't work out why he is doing it.

He possibly thinks it’s not worth risking a crash as he believes that he’ll win anyway.

[stemll]

Northernboy said:

SmoothCriminal said:

I said this both times watching the races, Lewis is giving max too much space and not defending I can't work out why he is doing it.

He possibly thinks it’s not worth risking a crash as he believes that he’ll win anyway.

As has been said many, many times, you can't win a race in the first corner but you can lose it.

[Oilchange]

Graveworm said:

HighwayStar said:

Boom78 said:

There’s some proper over thinking and skullduggery hopers on this post, I’m not an RB fan but DR got dumped because he wasn’t “all that” or marketable, Max is just faster. Horner IS a shrewd operator and one of the best, he’s not some front of camera type controlled by evil overlords. Perez is the real deal and once he’s in the groove will be scoring points. They are ruthless but that’s F1.

The team are successful and challenging Merc, the difference is Hamilton.

Hmmm... DR got dumped because Horner believed Kvyat was a better bet? Or Perez was the plan all along? C’mon fella. It’s widely reported why he left, even if we speculate on the finer points of why, the basics of it were the team backed Max and rightly so but the mugged off DR. They’ve been paying for it ever since.
Following the news breaking, Horner showed voiced his surprise and disbelief that he would leave RedBull for Renault. DR was not dumped.

They made a brave choice with Vettel, deciding his potential was worth favouring him over Webber, almost immediately (Wing gate) and it paid off. They made an even braver choice with Max and it looked like it could be just as inspired, the issue was DR was, like Webber, actually ahead when they took the decision - which is going to be a bitter pill to swallow. They then tried the same with Kvyat and Albon with slightly less success.

Brave choice?
He is German. The end.

[Stuart70]

Oilchange said:

Brave choice?
He is German. The end.

?

[oyster]

jm doc said:

RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:

Don't think it's the car, it's Hamilton leaving the door open in Italy and Spain.

In Italy Max literally knocked Hamilton out of the way in the first corner. In Spain he similarly gave him no room and would have collided if Hamilton hadn't run off the track to avoid him. In both cases no action was taken by the stewards. If it had been the other way round RB would have been screaming blue murder.

I suspect at some point in the future, Max will get what he deserves and we'll see how well he copes then.

It’s a skill Lewis has used numerous times in the past. He did it to Rosberg often.
Make it wheel against wheel.

I suspect Hamilton rather enjoys it.

[Oilchange]

Stuart70 said:

?

Filling an F1 seat is often about what nationality driver they want in it. Not rocket science.

[swisstoni]

Oilchange said:

Stuart70 said:

?

Filling an F1 seat is often about what nationality driver they want in it. Not rocket science.

They’ve got a Dutchman and a Mexican at the moment.
I’m struggling with the fiendish plan behind that.

[Oilchange]

swisstoni said:

Oilchange said:

Stuart70 said:

?

Filling an F1 seat is often about what nationality driver they want in it. Not rocket science.

They’ve got a Dutchman and a Mexican at the moment.
I’m struggling with the fiendish plan behind that.

It doesn’t always happen but often it does. As I said it’s ‘often’.
I thought this was common knowledge!

[MiniMan64]

Oilchange said:

swisstoni said:

Oilchange said:

Stuart70 said:

?

Filling an F1 seat is often about what nationality driver they want in it. Not rocket science.

They’ve got a Dutchman and a Mexican at the moment.
I’m struggling with the fiendish plan behind that.

It doesn’t always happen but often it does. As I said it’s ‘often’.
I thought this was common knowledge!

Really? Can you give some recent examples where drives have been awarded on nationality?

I’d say only 2 factors are considered, money (back of the grid) and in varying degrees towards the front of the grid, talent.

[anonymous-user]

If nationality were that important the grid would be Chinese.

[stemll]

MiniMan64 said:

Oilchange said:

swisstoni said:

Oilchange said:

Stuart70 said:

?

Filling an F1 seat is often about what nationality driver they want in it. Not rocket science.

They’ve got a Dutchman and a Mexican at the moment.
I’m struggling with the fiendish plan behind that.

It doesn’t always happen but often it does. As I said it’s ‘often’.
I thought this was common knowledge!

Really? Can you give some recent examples where drives have been awarded on nationality?

I’d say only 2 factors are considered, money (back of the grid) and in varying degrees towards the front of the grid, talent.

Tsunoda, because Honda. Only thing he's won is Japanese F4 and that took three attempts. Was only 30-odd points ahead of Mazepin in last year's F2

[kiseca]

stemll said:

MiniMan64 said:

Oilchange said:

swisstoni said:

Oilchange said:

Stuart70 said:

?

Filling an F1 seat is often about what nationality driver they want in it. Not rocket science.

They’ve got a Dutchman and a Mexican at the moment.
I’m struggling with the fiendish plan behind that.

It doesn’t always happen but often it does. As I said it’s ‘often’.
I thought this was common knowledge!

Really? Can you give some recent examples where drives have been awarded on nationality?

I’d say only 2 factors are considered, money (back of the grid) and in varying degrees towards the front of the grid, talent.

Tsunoda, because Honda. Only thing he's won is Japanese F4 and that took three attempts. Was only 30-odd points ahead of Mazepin in last year's F2

Honda has often been the reason for a Japanese driver being in a car with one of their engines, but that's not always been the case. McLaren seemed to be able to argue them out of it, as did Red Bull. I've never seen any evidence to suggest nationalism had anything to do with Seb's opportunity and support at Red Bull, but I'm happy to be proved wrong. I think they just thought he was their best shot, and they're more likely to give up performance by supporting their young driver programme instead of going to market for established talent. But this year they were pragmatic enough not to follow that doctrine either.

Nationality has an influence from time to time but I'd say it hardly ever trumps talent or money depending what end of the grid you're at, and I'd also say the higher up the grid you go, the less influence it has because you can rarely afford to overlook a better driver if you want to be winning.

[TheInternet]

stemll said:

Tsunoda, because Honda. Only thing he's won is Japanese F4 and that took three attempts. Was only 30-odd points ahead of Mazepin in last year's F2

For balance, Schumacher won last year's F2 championship with 215 points. Tsunoda was 3rd on 200, with Mazepin 5th on 164. MSC and NM were both in their second year of F2, whereas YT was in his first, and was the highest scoring rookie. Verstappen hasn't won any championships at all beyond karting.

Clearly the nationality was a big factor, but he's worthy of the F1 chance, whereas Mazepin not so much.

[jm doc]

RonaldMcDonaldAteMyCat said:

jm doc said:

In Italy Max literally knocked Hamilton out of the way in the first corner. In Spain he similarly gave him no room and would have collided if Hamilton hadn't run off the track to avoid him. In both cases no action was taken by the stewards. If it had been the other way round RB would have been screaming blue murder.

I suspect at some point in the future, Max will get what he deserves and we'll see how well he copes then.

In Italy Hamilton allowed Max space to his left right off the start, well before T1, when he could have covered it off. In Spain he didn't cover off Max on the run down to T1. In both, Verstappen took the racing line in the first corner and bears no blame, as far as I can see.

No doubt this season we'll have at least one controversial bash up between them, though.

Max made clear contact in Italy, he drove into the side of him despite track position but it was wheel to wheel and risk of damage was limited. It was illegal. Hamilton knows how to play the long game now though and in Spain made sure there was no contact as it wouldn't have been wheel to wheel and risked taking himself out and not Max. Max was oblivious to all of this and thought he was the big man. A bit like Rosberg on Hamilton in Austria. And ultimately he will likely get caught out.