Official 2021 Spanish Grand Prix Thread **SPOILERS**

[Oilchange]

MiniMan64 said:

Oilchange said:

swisstoni said:

Oilchange said:

Stuart70 said:

?

Filling an F1 seat is often about what nationality driver they want in it. Not rocket science.

They’ve got a Dutchman and a Mexican at the moment.
I’m struggling with the fiendish plan behind that.

It doesn’t always happen but often it does. As I said it’s ‘often’.
I thought this was common knowledge!

Really? Can you give some recent examples where drives have been awarded on nationality?

I’d say only 2 factors are considered, money (back of the grid) and in varying degrees towards the front of the grid, talent.

If you watched drive to survive recently you'd see Guenther Steiner negotiating with a German company about sponsoring a driver. They stipulated a German driver. Low and behold Schumacher jnr on the grid.

[HustleRussell]

Oilchange said:

Graveworm said:

HighwayStar said:

Boom78 said:

There’s some proper over thinking and skullduggery hopers on this post, I’m not an RB fan but DR got dumped because he wasn’t “all that” or marketable, Max is just faster. Horner IS a shrewd operator and one of the best, he’s not some front of camera type controlled by evil overlords. Perez is the real deal and once he’s in the groove will be scoring points. They are ruthless but that’s F1.

The team are successful and challenging Merc, the difference is Hamilton.

Hmmm... DR got dumped because Horner believed Kvyat was a better bet? Or Perez was the plan all along? C’mon fella. It’s widely reported why he left, even if we speculate on the finer points of why, the basics of it were the team backed Max and rightly so but the mugged off DR. They’ve been paying for it ever since.
Following the news breaking, Horner showed voiced his surprise and disbelief that he would leave RedBull for Renault. DR was not dumped.

They made a brave choice with Vettel, deciding his potential was worth favouring him over Webber, almost immediately (Wing gate) and it paid off. They made an even braver choice with Max and it looked like it could be just as inspired, the issue was DR was, like Webber, actually ahead when they took the decision - which is going to be a bitter pill to swallow. They then tried the same with Kvyat and Albon with slightly less success.

Brave choice?
He is German. The end.

Wait... why would Red Bull prefer a German driver? Please spell it out because this has clearly passed me by.

I am aware of examples with other teams and sponsors, I’m asking specifically about Red Bull and Vettel?

[Oilchange]

Look, everyone has an opinion, feel free to disagree with mine, I won't be offended but if Webber was German and Vettel Australian it is my firm opinion that Webber would have won F1 drivers championships and Vettel more or less forgotten about.

[anonymous-user]

Oilchange said:

Look, everyone has an opinion, feel free to disagree with mine, I won't be offended but if Webber was German and Vettel Australian it is my firm opinion that Webber would have won F1 drivers championships and Vettel more or less forgotten about.

Vettel says g'day, Bruce.

[kiseca]

Oilchange said:

Look, everyone has an opinion, feel free to disagree with mine, I won't be offended but if Webber was German and Vettel Australian it is my firm opinion that Webber would have won F1 drivers championships and Vettel more or less forgotten about.

So why did they let Ricciardo beat him, and why haven't they replaced him with another German ever since?

Like you say, it's an opinion, I respect that. You could well be right. Personally I think Vettel got the support because he looked faster, and that first championship was his because of what he and Webber did, not because of what Red Bull did. Once he won that, he was the favoured driver. Red Bull always favour the driver who looks faster and more exciting. As soon as Ricciardo started looking faster than Vettel, Ricciardo had the team's backing. Then as soon as Max started looking faster than Ricciardo, even though he wasn't actually beating him, Max got the team's support. Even if it was just moral support.

To me it seems far more likely they backed Vettel instead of Webber because Webber was already at the top of his game and wasn't going to get any better, and Vettel looked like the next big thing. I know nationality plays a part from time to time but I've seen nothing to suggest it was at Red Bull, ever.

[stemll]

Oilchange said:

Look, everyone has an opinion, feel free to disagree with mine, I won't be offended but if Webber was German and Vettel Australian it is my firm opinion that Webber would have won F1 drivers championships and Vettel more or less forgotten about.

But Red Bull are Austrian (or maybe Thai given that Chalerm Yoovidhya holds 51%) so why would they choose a German?

[Oilchange]

So was Hitler but we didn't declare war on Austria did we?

[HustleRussell]

Oilchange said:

So was Hitler but we didn't declare war on Austria did we?

You thought Dietrich Mateschitz and/or Helmut Marco were German didn’t you.

[Oilchange]

No. I am well aware of his nationality, ta. The Styrian, Mateschitz, renamed the Austrian circuit Red Bull Ring after all.

Another case in point for the hard of thinking: Yuki Tsunoda, does anyone think he'd have got the drive for the HONDA powered Scuderia Torro Rosso if he were, say Chinese, or Belgian, or Irish?
Nope, he got the drive because he's Japanese.

Really, it's just my opinion but it looks pretty obvious to me.

[ajprice]

Alonso admits he's human and can't match the form Ocon is in so far this year https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.my-100-...

[kiseca]

Oilchange said:

No. I am well aware of his nationality, ta. The Styrian, Mateschitz, renamed the Austrian circuit Red Bull Ring after all.

Another case in point for the hard of thinking: Yuki Tsunoda, does anyone think he'd have got the drive for the HONDA powered Scuderia Torro Rosso if he were, say Chinese, or Belgian, or Irish?
Nope, he got the drive because he's Japanese.

Really, it's just my opinion but it looks pretty obvious to me.

Honda historically as an engine provider have included a Japanese driver as part of the deal, but no, I guess I must be one of the hard of thinking because I don't see any suspicious link between that and a Renault powered Red Bull in 2010.

[Oilchange]

kiseca said:

Honda historically as an engine provider have included a Japanese driver as part of the deal, but no, I guess I must be one of the hard of thinking because I don't see any suspicious link between that and a Renault powered Red Bull in 2010.

What's the engine in the 2010 Red Bull car got to do with it? The link here is the driver and the team owner. And the contract which we will never see of course. Listen, there are so many factors at play, different contracts different sponsors different team bosses with different biases etc but I think Vettel got the drive because he was German and got preference somehow to beat Webber with the 'same' machinery for this reason.

Like I said, I don't think Vettel would be 4 times world champ if it was Webber that was the German...

[Teddy Lop]

Oilchange said:

kiseca said:

Honda historically as an engine provider have included a Japanese driver as part of the deal, but no, I guess I must be one of the hard of thinking because I don't see any suspicious link between that and a Renault powered Red Bull in 2010.

What's the engine in the 2010 Red Bull car got to do with it? The link here is the driver and the team owner. And the contract which we will never see of course. Listen, there are so many factors at play, different contracts different sponsors different team bosses with different biases etc but I think Vettel got the drive because he was German and got preference somehow to beat Webber with the 'same' machinery for this reason.

Like I said, I don't think Vettel would be 4 times world champ if it was Webber that was the German...

You can't really just pop a theory out there without so much as a thought on why they'd want to do that though, otherwise it just looks silly

I've never cared for vettel so will buy any old st but don't see it, Webber was leading till he had his bicycle accident and ended up finishing the season secretly having hydrocortisone injections before sessions IIRC. Seb won and had the momentum and TBF Webber was getting past it anyway.

I think RB favoured vettel but that was more just the RB young driver youngest records media hype train extra extreme image wings etc BS thing they did and still do.

[Oilchange]

Teddy Lop said:

You can't really just pop a theory out there without so much as a thought on why they'd want to do that though, otherwise it just looks silly

I've never cared for vettel so will buy any old st but don't see it, Webber was leading till he had his bicycle accident and ended up finishing the season secretly having hydrocortisone injections before sessions IIRC. Seb won and had the momentum and TBF Webber was getting past it anyway.

I think RB favoured vettel but that was more just the RB young driver youngest records media hype train extra extreme image wings etc BS thing they did and still do.

Yes I can. And I will continue to do so. What's the point of a forum? Anyway, I explained myself as to why.
The thing is there are so many secrets in F1 that nobody can say for sure either way. Hence it's my opinion against others. Unless you ask Dietrich in person and he gives you an honest answer.

I just think people don't like the fact that I said he was selected based on his nationality. Which I think he was.

[MustangGT]

Oilchange said:

Look, everyone has an opinion, feel free to disagree with mine, I won't be offended but if Webber was German and Vettel Australian it is my firm opinion that Webber would have won F1 drivers championships and Vettel more or less forgotten about.

I tend to agree, although it was more to do with Vettel being an RB young driver and Webber was not. You have to admit Vettel was the master of the blown diffuser era, shame he is nothing special without it.

[Teddy Lop]

Oilchange said:

Yes I can. And I will continue to do so. What's the point of a forum? Anyway, I explained myself as to why.
The thing is there are so many secrets in F1 that nobody can say for sure either way. Hence it's my opinion against others. Unless you ask Dietrich in person and he gives you an honest answer.

I just think people don't like the fact that I said he was selected based on his nationality. Which I think he was.

Yes you can, but the point of a forum is discussion and if you just make random claims with no supporting idea as to why what's to discuss? You may as well just headbutt the keyboard.

For example, one theory I have is merc are reluctant to put George in the car alongside Hamilton because what with the number of key Brits involved in running the team, plus that it and it's wonderful AMG high performance PU are designed and built in Britain, there's some sensitivity to also having two Brits driving this pride of Germany.

It might be wrong but it's a theory.

Now you try.

[HustleRussell]

Oilchange said:

No. I am well aware of his nationality, ta. The Styrian, Mateschitz, renamed the Austrian circuit Red Bull Ring after all.

Another case in point for the hard of thinking: Yuki Tsunoda, does anyone think he'd have got the drive for the HONDA powered Scuderia Torro Rosso if he were, say Chinese, or Belgian, or Irish?
Nope, he got the drive because he's Japanese.

Really, it's just my opinion but it looks pretty obvious to me.

I’ve noticed that since people started questioning you about Vettel and Red Bull you seem to be willing to talk about any driver and team except Vettel and Red Bull.

[kiseca]

Oilchange said:

kiseca said:

Honda historically as an engine provider have included a Japanese driver as part of the deal, but no, I guess I must be one of the hard of thinking because I don't see any suspicious link between that and a Renault powered Red Bull in 2010.

What's the engine in the 2010 Red Bull car got to do with it? The link here is the driver and the team owner. And the contract which we will never see of course. Listen, there are so many factors at play, different contracts different sponsors different team bosses with different biases etc but I think Vettel got the drive because he was German and got preference somehow to beat Webber with the 'same' machinery for this reason.

Like I said, I don't think Vettel would be 4 times world champ if it was Webber that was the German...

You're using Honda and Yuki as an example that nationality sometimes helps decide which drivers get seats. I'm saying that's because of Honda not Red Bull, and does not support nor contradict your opinion that Seb got favoured because he was German. There's no link apart from the two teams are owned by the same company, a company that has shown no obvious signs of nationalism until Honda showed up (and even then it's taken them, what, 3 years, it's in the support team, not the team fighting for a championship, and it's just as Honda are pulling out?)

Yuki's ride has no weight on your opinion on Seb.

[anonymous-user]

Vettel was favoured because he was good and ruthless. Horner and his partner in doom are interested in ruthless killers. That why they preferred Vettel Multi21 to Webber and Max Don't giveafk to whoever is in seat 2.

[stemll]

Oilchange said:

So was Hitler but we didn't declare war on Austria did we?

Were you playing the Wikipedia 6 clicks to Hitler game as that's a pretty weird leap to make from an F1 driver discussion but as you asked........

No we did not. We also did not declare war on any other countries that did not exist. Read up on the Anschluss Österreichs if you want to know why. We did declare war on, and invade the Faroe Islands though.

Sorry everyone else, no more OT.