Valtteri Bottas at Mercedes
Discussion
Looking at the playback of the start yesterday he should have moved agressively left to take the correct line and lewis should have moved that way also .
Whats sort of pre race talk did they have? Wonder if they fooled themselves by getting 1 and 2 in quali and decided they had it in the bag.
Max made them look a bit silly really.
Would have been a small glimmer of hope but the trajectory to the title is all max unless he DNF's
VB has had a good innings at Mercedes and it was best for both parties to try something new.
Whats sort of pre race talk did they have? Wonder if they fooled themselves by getting 1 and 2 in quali and decided they had it in the bag.
Max made them look a bit silly really.
Would have been a small glimmer of hope but the trajectory to the title is all max unless he DNF's
VB has had a good innings at Mercedes and it was best for both parties to try something new.
Jake899 said:
Drop him. Drop him now. Mercedes should bring Russell in now if they want to keep the Constructors.
He finished on the podium yesterday, and had a pretty good race. Yes, it would have been good to have kept his foot in at the first corner and turned MV around, but he drove well and maximised the points for the team.
Sandpit Steve said:
He finished on the podium yesterday, and had a pretty good race.
Yes, it would have been good to have kept his foot in at the first corner and turned MV around, but he drove well and maximised the points for the team.
No he didn't.Yes, it would have been good to have kept his foot in at the first corner and turned MV around, but he drove well and maximised the points for the team.
His team mate came from tenth on the grid to win. Bottas converted pole into 3rd. That's pathetic. I almost felt like Toto was mocking him when he told him "c'mon go get max."
Get to formula e already.
Teddy Lop said:
Sandpit Steve said:
He finished on the podium yesterday, and had a pretty good race.
Yes, it would have been good to have kept his foot in at the first corner and turned MV around, but he drove well and maximised the points for the team.
No he didn't.Yes, it would have been good to have kept his foot in at the first corner and turned MV around, but he drove well and maximised the points for the team.
His team mate came from tenth on the grid to win. Bottas converted pole into 3rd. That's pathetic. I almost felt like Toto was mocking him when he told him "c'mon go get max."
Get to formula e already.
It might also be (possibly) that Mercedes need the WCC points so Bottas has to be slightly more circumspect. If he gets knocked off the track by one of Max's "move or we crash" moves, Mercedes lose out on all those WCC points, with only a small reward if Bottas did stay ahead (slightly fewer points for Max). If Hamilton gets knocked off by Max then there is the same loss of points, but set against the potential to recover the WDC. Bigger payoff for the same risk, with the same downside. So worth it for Hamilton to be more aggressive than Bottas.
Teddy Lop said:
Sandpit Steve said:
He finished on the podium yesterday, and had a pretty good race.
Yes, it would have been good to have kept his foot in at the first corner and turned MV around, but he drove well and maximised the points for the team.
No he didn't.Yes, it would have been good to have kept his foot in at the first corner and turned MV around, but he drove well and maximised the points for the team.
His team mate came from tenth on the grid to win. Bottas converted pole into 3rd. That's pathetic. I almost felt like Toto was mocking him when he told him "c'mon go get max."
Get to formula e already.
Edited by Muzzer79 on Monday 15th November 10:24
It was really embarrassing for Bottas.
Started on pole and finished 3rd (Courtesy of virtual safety car)
Hamilton started 10th and won the race.
Now if Bottas had started 10th with Hamilton starting on pole do you think we would have got the reverse outcome?
Alfa Romeo must be looking at their contract and trying to see if they can get a real racer in the seat for 2022.
Rosberg would have won the race from pole in that Mercedes.
Started on pole and finished 3rd (Courtesy of virtual safety car)
Hamilton started 10th and won the race.
Now if Bottas had started 10th with Hamilton starting on pole do you think we would have got the reverse outcome?
Alfa Romeo must be looking at their contract and trying to see if they can get a real racer in the seat for 2022.
Rosberg would have won the race from pole in that Mercedes.
Supersam83 said:
It was really embarrassing for Bottas.
Started on pole and finished 3rd (Courtesy of virtual safety car)
Hamilton started 10th and won the race.
Now if Bottas had started 10th with Hamilton starting on pole do you think we would have got the reverse outcome?
Alfa Romeo must be looking at their contract and trying to see if they can get a real racer in the seat for 2022.
Rosberg would have won the race from pole in that Mercedes.
I can't work out this bizarre hatred of Bottas.Started on pole and finished 3rd (Courtesy of virtual safety car)
Hamilton started 10th and won the race.
Now if Bottas had started 10th with Hamilton starting on pole do you think we would have got the reverse outcome?
Alfa Romeo must be looking at their contract and trying to see if they can get a real racer in the seat for 2022.
Rosberg would have won the race from pole in that Mercedes.
Hamilton is a 7(8)-time champion. Rosberg is a WDC too. Verstappen almost certainly will be a WDC (maybe in a few weeks).
Why would you expect Bottas to match their results and performances?
oyster said:
Supersam83 said:
It was really embarrassing for Bottas.
Started on pole and finished 3rd (Courtesy of virtual safety car)
Hamilton started 10th and won the race.
Now if Bottas had started 10th with Hamilton starting on pole do you think we would have got the reverse outcome?
Alfa Romeo must be looking at their contract and trying to see if they can get a real racer in the seat for 2022.
Rosberg would have won the race from pole in that Mercedes.
I can't work out this bizarre hatred of Bottas.Started on pole and finished 3rd (Courtesy of virtual safety car)
Hamilton started 10th and won the race.
Now if Bottas had started 10th with Hamilton starting on pole do you think we would have got the reverse outcome?
Alfa Romeo must be looking at their contract and trying to see if they can get a real racer in the seat for 2022.
Rosberg would have won the race from pole in that Mercedes.
Hamilton is a 7(8)-time champion. Rosberg is a WDC too. Verstappen almost certainly will be a WDC (maybe in a few weeks).
Why would you expect Bottas to match their results and performances?
I must come across as an evangelical Bottas supporter........I'm not - I don't rate him especially highly.
But I don't understand why people are expecting him to beat Hamilton and Verstappen when not only he, but all the others, just aren't at that level.
The last thing Mercedes want or need is someone challenging Hamilton like Rosberg did. It's good for fans, but not for teams.
Supersam83 said:
Rosberg would have won the race from pole in that Mercedes.
And as a point of order, he 100% wouldn't if he was in Bottas' shoes because he'd have had to move over for Hamilton because of the championship positions......just like Bottas had to on lap 5.I don't know why people expect some level of superlative performance from someone working their notice when they wouldn't expect it in any other walk of life.
This could be Bottas's level, it could be that he's going through the motions to some extent. And yes expecting him to beat Hamilton or even Verstappen when he's never been consistently capable of that before, and was not brought in as that kind of driver, seems strange.
This could be Bottas's level, it could be that he's going through the motions to some extent. And yes expecting him to beat Hamilton or even Verstappen when he's never been consistently capable of that before, and was not brought in as that kind of driver, seems strange.
Muzzer79 said:
oyster said:
Supersam83 said:
It was really embarrassing for Bottas.
Started on pole and finished 3rd (Courtesy of virtual safety car)
Hamilton started 10th and won the race.
Now if Bottas had started 10th with Hamilton starting on pole do you think we would have got the reverse outcome?
Alfa Romeo must be looking at their contract and trying to see if they can get a real racer in the seat for 2022.
Rosberg would have won the race from pole in that Mercedes.
I can't work out this bizarre hatred of Bottas.Started on pole and finished 3rd (Courtesy of virtual safety car)
Hamilton started 10th and won the race.
Now if Bottas had started 10th with Hamilton starting on pole do you think we would have got the reverse outcome?
Alfa Romeo must be looking at their contract and trying to see if they can get a real racer in the seat for 2022.
Rosberg would have won the race from pole in that Mercedes.
Hamilton is a 7(8)-time champion. Rosberg is a WDC too. Verstappen almost certainly will be a WDC (maybe in a few weeks).
Why would you expect Bottas to match their results and performances?
I must come across as an evangelical Bottas supporter........I'm not - I don't rate him especially highly.
But I don't understand why people are expecting him to beat Hamilton and Verstappen when not only he, but all the others, just aren't at that level.
The last thing Mercedes want or need is someone challenging Hamilton like Rosberg did. It's good for fans, but not for teams.
Supersam83 said:
Rosberg would have won the race from pole in that Mercedes.
And as a point of order, he 100% wouldn't if he was in Bottas' shoes because he'd have had to move over for Hamilton because of the championship positions......just like Bottas had to on lap 5.As for swapping Russell in - disagree, starting that battle at this stage of the season is too high a risk. He doesn't know the car, it doesn't really fit him, & he'd want to prove his worth, taking risks that Bottas won't need to. Bottas has made some mistakes, as they all do, his profile means he's always under the spotlight, as those mistakes have big implications, but there's no need to destabilise the team now.
MarkwG said:
I wondered if he could have been better placed to steal the fastest lap off Perez when it looked likely RB would pull that one, but probably not worth the risk/hassle.
Wasn't possible. He couldn't pit before Perez or he'd have lost 3rd place, Perez coming in on the penultimate lap meant there was no time for Merc/Bottas to respond.Zetec-S said:
Wasn't possible. He couldn't pit before Perez or he'd have lost 3rd place, Perez coming in on the penultimate lap meant there was no time for Merc/Bottas to respond.
Yes, if they’d pre-emptedly pitted Bottas in front of Perez, then RB would have kept Checo out, and gained three points for 3rd place. It seems to be unpopular to say that Valtteri had a great weekend - but he qualified 2nd on Friday, won the Sprint on Saturday, and only dropped one place (to Verstappen, who pushed him off at the first corner) on Sunday. Lewis was a gimme, and the fight with Checo worked out in Valtteri’s favour after they were able to run long and take advantage of a cheap VSC pitstop. That’s a great weekend in anyone’s book. 18 points scored.
Sandpit Steve said:
Zetec-S said:
Wasn't possible. He couldn't pit before Perez or he'd have lost 3rd place, Perez coming in on the penultimate lap meant there was no time for Merc/Bottas to respond.
Yes, if they’d pre-emptedly pitted Bottas in front of Perez, then RB would have kept Checo out, and gained three points for 3rd place. It seems to be unpopular to say that Valtteri had a great weekend - but he qualified 2nd on Friday, won the Sprint on Saturday, and only dropped one place (to Verstappen, who pushed him off at the first corner) on Sunday. Lewis was a gimme, and the fight with Checo worked out in Valtteri’s favour after they were able to run long and take advantage of a cheap VSC pitstop. That’s a great weekend in anyone’s book. 18 points scored.
Zetec-S said:
MarkwG said:
I wondered if he could have been better placed to steal the fastest lap off Perez when it looked likely RB would pull that one, but probably not worth the risk/hassle.
Wasn't possible. He couldn't pit before Perez or he'd have lost 3rd place, Perez coming in on the penultimate lap meant there was no time for Merc/Bottas to respond.jsf said:
It depends what you value most. If Mercedes valued the drivers title most, they would have pitted Bottas so Lewis kept the extra point as he would have just covered off Perez doing it. It would have been fun to see if Red Bull would have done the same following Bottas in, for Perez to try and take that extra point or not. and we then saw Bottas deliberately slow Perez down.
I do find that interesting - it implies Mercedes are still more interested in the three points for the constructor's than fighting for the WDC.I reckon if it was the other way around Red Bull would have pitted Perez.
Flooble said:
I do find that interesting - it implies Mercedes are still more interested in the three points for the constructor's than fighting for the WDC.
I reckon if it was the other way around Red Bull would have pitted Perez.
We might see this play out in the next 3 races as a tactic, imagine if the last race Max and Lewis are on the same points and it comes down to which number 2 takes fastest lap, how nuts would that be, I reckon if it was the other way around Red Bull would have pitted Perez.
They’ll never drop Bottas - absolutely never. And no point in comparing him to Hamilton - it’s like Irvine vs Schumacher. We’re watching one of the greatest ever - and the last two races show that. Glad Bottas isn’t reading things like this and pushing too hard - he won the sprint and drove cleanly for a podium yesterday. Perfect.
Flooble said:
Teddy Lop said:
Sandpit Steve said:
He finished on the podium yesterday, and had a pretty good race.
Yes, it would have been good to have kept his foot in at the first corner and turned MV around, but he drove well and maximised the points for the team.
No he didn't.Yes, it would have been good to have kept his foot in at the first corner and turned MV around, but he drove well and maximised the points for the team.
His team mate came from tenth on the grid to win. Bottas converted pole into 3rd. That's pathetic. I almost felt like Toto was mocking him when he told him "c'mon go get max."
Get to formula e already.
It might also be (possibly) that Mercedes need the WCC points so Bottas has to be slightly more circumspect. If he gets knocked off the track by one of Max's "move or we crash" moves, Mercedes lose out on all those WCC points, with only a small reward if Bottas did stay ahead (slightly fewer points for Max). If Hamilton gets knocked off by Max then there is the same loss of points, but set against the potential to recover the WDC. Bigger payoff for the same risk, with the same downside. So worth it for Hamilton to be more aggressive than Bottas.
The constant excusing and apologising and applauding bottas poor efforts is risible - you guys think you're defending him but to commend his lackluster performance and expect nothing better is a bigger insult than any criticism.
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