Valtteri Bottas at Mercedes
Discussion
Durzel said:
Jasandjules said:
rdjohn said:
I think the debt owed to Merc will form the basis of a deal to get him back with Williams. That is if he wants the drive. They would welcome his maturity, especially if it comes as a low-cost option.
I think he will go to Williams. It would actually be a real challenge to see if he can raise a team up AND of course if he can out-perform the car it would prove how good a driver he is/was... TheDeuce said:
thegreenhell said:
We've seen many times over the years that available budget does not equal success.
Which is why I made that point... But still, generally the top teams are those that spend the most - even if the order amongst those teams shifts out of line with budget. Schermerhorn said:
Durzel said:
Jasandjules said:
rdjohn said:
I think the debt owed to Merc will form the basis of a deal to get him back with Williams. That is if he wants the drive. They would welcome his maturity, especially if it comes as a low-cost option.
I think he will go to Williams. It would actually be a real challenge to see if he can raise a team up AND of course if he can out-perform the car it would prove how good a driver he is/was... Durzel said:
Schermerhorn said:
Durzel said:
Jasandjules said:
rdjohn said:
I think the debt owed to Merc will form the basis of a deal to get him back with Williams. That is if he wants the drive. They would welcome his maturity, especially if it comes as a low-cost option.
I think he will go to Williams. It would actually be a real challenge to see if he can raise a team up AND of course if he can out-perform the car it would prove how good a driver he is/was... Continually beaten by his team mate, lost his marriage, admits to being beaten by his new bird at cycling (yes I know she's a pro but he's still an athlete), gets all sweary at his old sponsors when they dumped him but performed so poorly they didn't want to continue with him.
As a technical driver, he's obviously very good. As a wheel to wheel racer less so.
Five years at Mercedes getting whupped but he obviously still fancies himself as a potential WDC.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
I dunno, he's obviously a complex character in a quite strange situation.
Continually beaten by his team mate, lost his marriage, admits to being beaten by his new bird at cycling (yes I know she's a pro but he's still an athlete), gets all sweary at his old sponsors when they dumped him but performed so poorly they didn't want to continue with him.
As a technical driver, he's obviously very good. As a wheel to wheel racer less so.
Five years at Mercedes getting whupped but he obviously still fancies himself as a potential WDC.
I agree with all that. Especially the bit about how good he is technically, which shines through when he qualifies within thousandths of Lewis (either way). His accuracy and consistency in terms of positioning and rotating the car is excellent.Continually beaten by his team mate, lost his marriage, admits to being beaten by his new bird at cycling (yes I know she's a pro but he's still an athlete), gets all sweary at his old sponsors when they dumped him but performed so poorly they didn't want to continue with him.
As a technical driver, he's obviously very good. As a wheel to wheel racer less so.
Five years at Mercedes getting whupped but he obviously still fancies himself as a potential WDC.
Throw in some pressure or complexity during a full GP and sadly he doesn't seem to do so well. That's an observation, not a criticism.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
I dunno, he's obviously a complex character in a quite strange situation.
Continually beaten by his team mate, lost his marriage, admits to being beaten by his new bird at cycling (yes I know she's a pro but he's still an athlete), gets all sweary at his old sponsors when they dumped him but performed so poorly they didn't want to continue with him.
As a technical driver, he's obviously very good. As a wheel to wheel racer less so.
Five years at Mercedes getting whupped but he obviously still fancies himself as a potential WDC.
What a negative assessment of someone. It's almost as if you are trying to talk him down for some reason. Did he steal something of yours?Continually beaten by his team mate, lost his marriage, admits to being beaten by his new bird at cycling (yes I know she's a pro but he's still an athlete), gets all sweary at his old sponsors when they dumped him but performed so poorly they didn't want to continue with him.
As a technical driver, he's obviously very good. As a wheel to wheel racer less so.
Five years at Mercedes getting whupped but he obviously still fancies himself as a potential WDC.
Muzzer79 said:
sparta6 said:
Muzzer79 said:
sparta6 said:
Muzzer79 said:
sparta6 said:
Teddy Lop said:
He needs to think about that when admonishing his team in public. They didn't make a barichello or a Irvine etc etc out of him.
True. Bottas never came within 1 point of bagging the WDC
I believe your previously-posted words were along the lines of
"Why should I do your research for you? Prove it yourself"
In your fantasy Bottas wins the WDC when Hamilton is away with a broken leg.
In the real world Bottas is so good that he's about to be dropped by his team
Still, nice to know you’re keeping in touch. Big hugs.
Leithen said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
I dunno, he's obviously a complex character in a quite strange situation.
Continually beaten by his team mate, lost his marriage, admits to being beaten by his new bird at cycling (yes I know she's a pro but he's still an athlete), gets all sweary at his old sponsors when they dumped him but performed so poorly they didn't want to continue with him.
As a technical driver, he's obviously very good. As a wheel to wheel racer less so.
Five years at Mercedes getting whupped but he obviously still fancies himself as a potential WDC.
What a negative assessment of someone. It's almost as if you are trying to talk him down for some reason. Did he steal something of yours?Continually beaten by his team mate, lost his marriage, admits to being beaten by his new bird at cycling (yes I know she's a pro but he's still an athlete), gets all sweary at his old sponsors when they dumped him but performed so poorly they didn't want to continue with him.
As a technical driver, he's obviously very good. As a wheel to wheel racer less so.
Five years at Mercedes getting whupped but he obviously still fancies himself as a potential WDC.
He's had a great time as effectively a number 2 driver to Hamilton. Not that Mercedes have deemed him as such on many occasions-only a couple spring to mind. He's always had his fair opportunity to win and has done too.
As I said, he's very obviously a very, very good driver. His one lap performances are incredibly impressive.
In the current regulations of F1, with it being a fuel saving and tyre performance category he is left wanting however. I don't think anyone can disagree that his actual skill of racing with other cars is poor too.
Think of a memorable Bottas overtake. I can think of his first lap drafting at Sochi and his battle with Hamilton at Silverstone.
I think I can recall more great moves in one race from Pierre Gasly than Bottas' entire career. Pre Mercedes I can only recall his crashes with Kimi.
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Admits to being beaten by his new bird at cycling (yes I know she's a pro but he's still an athlete),
This is getting a little silly now. She's a professional cyclist. He is an F1 driver. Being an athlete does not mean that he should beat his girlfriend at any sport she specialises in.
If Lewis Hamilton was dating Serena Williams, should he be able to beat her at Tennis?
LaurasOtherHalf said:
I think I can recall more great moves in one race from Pierre Gasly than Bottas' entire career. Pre Mercedes I can only recall his crashes with Kimi.
Practically speaking, at Mercedes, he hasn't had to overtake many people up to this year because he's been at the front 
LaurasOtherHalf said:
Leithen said:
LaurasOtherHalf said:
I dunno, he's obviously a complex character in a quite strange situation.
Continually beaten by his team mate, lost his marriage, admits to being beaten by his new bird at cycling (yes I know she's a pro but he's still an athlete), gets all sweary at his old sponsors when they dumped him but performed so poorly they didn't want to continue with him.
As a technical driver, he's obviously very good. As a wheel to wheel racer less so.
Five years at Mercedes getting whupped but he obviously still fancies himself as a potential WDC.
What a negative assessment of someone. It's almost as if you are trying to talk him down for some reason. Did he steal something of yours?Continually beaten by his team mate, lost his marriage, admits to being beaten by his new bird at cycling (yes I know she's a pro but he's still an athlete), gets all sweary at his old sponsors when they dumped him but performed so poorly they didn't want to continue with him.
As a technical driver, he's obviously very good. As a wheel to wheel racer less so.
Five years at Mercedes getting whupped but he obviously still fancies himself as a potential WDC.
He's had a great time as effectively a number 2 driver to Hamilton. Not that Mercedes have deemed him as such on many occasions-only a couple spring to mind. He's always had his fair opportunity to win and has done too.
As I said, he's very obviously a very, very good driver. His one lap performances are incredibly impressive.
In the current regulations of F1, with it being a fuel saving and tyre performance category he is left wanting however. I don't think anyone can disagree that his actual skill of racing with other cars is poor too.
Think of a memorable Bottas overtake. I can think of his first lap drafting at Sochi and his battle with Hamilton at Silverstone.
I think I can recall more great moves in one race from Pierre Gasly than Bottas' entire career. Pre Mercedes I can only recall his crashes with Kimi.
And yeah, the moment a driver doesn't count himself as a potential WDC in the damn best car on the grid, it's the moment he should pack it and go home.
Siao said:
Taking a view of his wedding and at his current relationship when talking about F1... Yeah, it does sound like you are trying to talk him down. What's next, he supports the wrong football team?
And yeah, the moment a driver doesn't count himself as a potential WDC in the damn best car on the grid, it's the moment he should pack it and go home.
I'm not sure Massa, Barrichello and Irvine would agree?And yeah, the moment a driver doesn't count himself as a potential WDC in the damn best car on the grid, it's the moment he should pack it and go home.
Bottas does seem to have a slight discrepancy in his self-image compared with reality. Last week he raged that a two-stop would have seen him fighting for the win. He was in third place and a two stop for both Mercedes cars would therefore have still have left him behind his team-mate. A two-stop just for him and ordering Hamilton aside (!) would have still left him having to overtake Max who could have easily covered an undercut, especially with the Mercedes being a slower car.
I don't see how he could imagine he'd have been able to fight for the win even with a combination of unlikely circumstances. Similarly the win in Russia was basically handed to him by odd Stewarding decisions but he acted as if he'd earned a tremendous victory and was going to go on to win the Championship.
It's one thing to be self-confident, but if you can't see reality you are going to be disappointed.
Flooble said:
Siao said:
Taking a view of his wedding and at his current relationship when talking about F1... Yeah, it does sound like you are trying to talk him down. What's next, he supports the wrong football team?
And yeah, the moment a driver doesn't count himself as a potential WDC in the damn best car on the grid, it's the moment he should pack it and go home.
I'm not sure Massa, Barrichello and Irvine would agree?And yeah, the moment a driver doesn't count himself as a potential WDC in the damn best car on the grid, it's the moment he should pack it and go home.
Bottas does seem to have a slight discrepancy in his self-image compared with reality. Last week he raged that a two-stop would have seen him fighting for the win. He was in third place and a two stop for both Mercedes cars would therefore have still have left him behind his team-mate. A two-stop just for him and ordering Hamilton aside (!) would have still left him having to overtake Max who could have easily covered an undercut, especially with the Mercedes being a slower car.
I don't see how he could imagine he'd have been able to fight for the win even with a combination of unlikely circumstances. Similarly the win in Russia was basically handed to him by odd Stewarding decisions but he acted as if he'd earned a tremendous victory and was going to go on to win the Championship.
It's one thing to be self-confident, but if you can't see reality you are going to be disappointed.
He is the first one to let himself down, sure, and his own view of what he can do in the car is possibly mistaken at times. But that is not what was suggested above. When talking about his girlfriend beating him in cycling to show how emotionally unstable his situation is, then it is a bit reaching in my opinion.
deadslow said:
Siao said:
Fortunately for Bottas he's in a team without a driver 1-2 distinction
patently not true, of courseAs bottas himself says, it's not easy being Lewis Hamilton's team mate!
A team can't win the WDC with both drivers, so it's only natural - and pretty obvious - that there will come a point during the season, for all teams, where it is inevitable that one driver will have to take on a supporting role to the other one. Sadly for Bottas it is anticipated that he will take on that role before next years car has turned a wheel.
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