Valtteri Bottas at Mercedes

[number2]

It's possible - likely even - that Mercedes will continue to be pushed by other teams and even be usurped in the coming years. If not this year.

Be an unfortunate twist of fate if the seat George Russel has been waiting for turns out to be a seat which is rapidly retreating from the front of the grid!

[TheDeuce]

number2 said:

It's possible - likely even - that Mercedes will continue to be pushed by other teams and even be usurped in the coming years. If not this year.

Be an unfortunate twist of fate if the seat George Russel has been waiting for turns out to be a seat which is rapidly retreating from the front of the grid!

Unfortunate indeed. Not exactly unprecedented in F1 though..

Although odds are that they'll remain at very least a top team next year onwards - they have invested for several years towards the new era car, way more than any team other than a top team will have been able to do. On the off chance GR isn't in the seat next year, he'll still be lined up for it sooner rather than later and it's very likely to still be a seat that most drivers would desire.

[Teddy Lop]

Big Nanas said:

Bottas would fit in well in an Indy car I think.

He's flawed but undeniably quick on his day. He's 32 now, barring something pretty remarkable he isn't going to get another seat at the top table in F1 so rather than trying to scrap the midfield upstarts and paydrivers why not go somewhere, carrying that F1 race winner kudos to get a top drive and win some world stage silverware while he still can. Rally sports endure Indy whatevs. Webber did and it did him some good.

But what do I know.

[TheDeuce]

Teddy Lop said:

Big Nanas said:

Bottas would fit in well in an Indy car I think.

He's flawed but undeniably quick on his day. He's 32 now, barring something pretty remarkable he isn't going to get another seat at the top table in F1 so rather than trying to scrap the midfield upstarts and paydrivers why not go somewhere, carrying that F1 race winner kudos to get a top drive and win some world stage silverware while he still can. Rally sports endure Indy whatevs. Webber did and it did him some good.

But what do I know.

He's done a bit of rally driving and has had some initial success. His car control is (unsurprisingly for a Finn) excellent, even by average F1 standards. It's just his ability to attack/defend in a race which is dismal!

As such, timed rally stages would probably suit him very well.

[thegreenhell]

number2 said:

It's possible - likely even - that Mercedes will continue to be pushed by other teams and even be usurped in the coming years.

An absolute certainty, as long as they don't decide to quit while they're ahead. The question is when, not if.

[Teddy Lop]

TheDeuce said:

He's done a bit of rally driving and has had some initial success. His car control is (unsurprisingly for a Finn) excellent, even by average F1 standards. It's just his ability to attack/defend in a race which is dismal!

As such, timed rally stages would probably suit him very well.

I've pondered the same.

Or endurance where they tend to run to a strat for much of a race rather than lose time fighting for/defending a position

[TheDeuce]

Teddy Lop said:

TheDeuce said:

He's done a bit of rally driving and has had some initial success. His car control is (unsurprisingly for a Finn) excellent, even by average F1 standards. It's just his ability to attack/defend in a race which is dismal!

As such, timed rally stages would probably suit him very well.

I've pondered the same.

Or endurance where they tend to run to a strat for much of a race rather than lose time fighting for/defending a position

One things for sure - he'll be OK post Mercedes, in or out of F1. He has clearly failed to inspire the majority of F1 fans - but those that matter in various motorsport series will easily be able to identify a fast and consistent talent. Endurance would be a good shout, although I think he might be on the F1 grid a while longer yet..

[Muzzer79]

TheDeuce said:

Muzzer79 said:

TheDeuce said:

Fwiw I think it's very likely George will get that seat next season. If Lewis does look like he won't get that 8th title this season however, that will increasingly push favour back towards keeping Bottas for 22'

8th title for Hamilton makes absolutely no difference IMO. The title probably won't be decided until very late in the season anyway.

George is the future. Bottas has done a perfectly adequate job, but they need a successor to Hamilton, which he isn't.

George will be in for next year. The next problem will be sorting a team-mate for him in 2024, but they've obviously got time for that.

If Lewis gets title #8 at Mercedes then it will be at least a decade before that record gets beaten - probably a few decades. For all that time, he, and by association, Mercedes, set the bar all others will be compared against. Years after Lewis and even Mercedes have left the sport, they will both still be given a mention every time any driver is particularly impressive and starts to look like they could rack up numerous WDC's. In short, the value is that without spending a penny or giving F1 a second thought in the future, Mercedes can continue to benefit from it as a source of free marketing, endless marketing.

I suspect they consider that to be quite valuable. Having a successor for Lewis is also valuable of course... But for a car manufacturer like Merc, nothing can really compare to entering the F1 game, rewriting the records and remaining unbeaten for years to come - even if they do have a couple of duff years afterwards due to sacrificing how soon they bring George in to the team.

For reference how often has MS been mentioned since it started to look like Lewis could equal or beat his 7 WDC's? And with every mention, there is also mention of Ferrari and him wearing his Ferrari race suit and/or in a Ferrari car.

Anyway, as I said, you and me and pretty much everyone else will probably be happy as it IS likely George will drive for them in 22', on the basis it is also likely that Lewis will beat Max this season, taking in to account RB have engine penalties and Merc appear to still be upgrading their car. But in order to be as confident as possible about which way the championship is headed, I do expect they'll delay a final decision as long as they feel they can.

I predict they’ll announce Russell at Mercedes within 2 weeks from now.

The title looks like it’s going to the wire, they can’t wait that long.

[TheDeuce]

Muzzer79 said:

TheDeuce said:

Muzzer79 said:

TheDeuce said:

Fwiw I think it's very likely George will get that seat next season. If Lewis does look like he won't get that 8th title this season however, that will increasingly push favour back towards keeping Bottas for 22'

8th title for Hamilton makes absolutely no difference IMO. The title probably won't be decided until very late in the season anyway.

George is the future. Bottas has done a perfectly adequate job, but they need a successor to Hamilton, which he isn't.

George will be in for next year. The next problem will be sorting a team-mate for him in 2024, but they've obviously got time for that.

If Lewis gets title #8 at Mercedes then it will be at least a decade before that record gets beaten - probably a few decades. For all that time, he, and by association, Mercedes, set the bar all others will be compared against. Years after Lewis and even Mercedes have left the sport, they will both still be given a mention every time any driver is particularly impressive and starts to look like they could rack up numerous WDC's. In short, the value is that without spending a penny or giving F1 a second thought in the future, Mercedes can continue to benefit from it as a source of free marketing, endless marketing.

I suspect they consider that to be quite valuable. Having a successor for Lewis is also valuable of course... But for a car manufacturer like Merc, nothing can really compare to entering the F1 game, rewriting the records and remaining unbeaten for years to come - even if they do have a couple of duff years afterwards due to sacrificing how soon they bring George in to the team.

For reference how often has MS been mentioned since it started to look like Lewis could equal or beat his 7 WDC's? And with every mention, there is also mention of Ferrari and him wearing his Ferrari race suit and/or in a Ferrari car.

Anyway, as I said, you and me and pretty much everyone else will probably be happy as it IS likely George will drive for them in 22', on the basis it is also likely that Lewis will beat Max this season, taking in to account RB have engine penalties and Merc appear to still be upgrading their car. But in order to be as confident as possible about which way the championship is headed, I do expect they'll delay a final decision as long as they feel they can.

I predict they’ll announce Russell at Mercedes within 2 weeks from now.

The title looks like it’s going to the wire, they can’t wait that long.

I guess I agree... it looks like its going to be close for a good while so they probably do have to make a choice. Without the luxury of more time, I think they'll go for Russell by default.

Tbh I think he's already all but signed up - I expect the paperwork and bartering is finalised already, just a matter of both parties making the final choice.

I think either Monza or straight after we'll know. Latest story is 'he already knows'... I call BS on that though, I think there is still a final decision to be made. If it was genuinely a done deal (IE: irreversible) we would know already.

[thegreenhell]

We'll probably know within a week. I'm sure they're just giving veteran ex-WDC Kimi due respect and letting him retire on his own terms, and giving him a few days for that to be the big story before burying it under the official announcements of Russell and Bottas moves.

[stemll]

TheDeuce said:

Latest story is 'he already knows'... I call BS on that though, I think there is still a final decision to be made. If it was genuinely a done deal (IE: irreversible) we would know already.

Given that that is exactly what George said and that Toto has said the decision has been made then I don't know where you get that from.

I suspect the only delay is that Alfa want to announce their new driver(s) in Italy. Kimi's announcement this week is so he can have the news this week and not drowned out by the new Mercedes and Alfa driver announcements.

[andburg]

I suspect this is all just waiting for Bottas to sign a contract and as a mark of respect merc are waiting for him to make his choice.

He's said he wants a multi year deal which suggests he doesn't have it nailed down and may still be speaking to multiple teams

[Muzzer79]

TheDeuce said:

Latest story is 'he already knows'... I call BS on that though, I think there is still a final decision to be made. If it was genuinely a done deal (IE: irreversible) we would know already.

If he says he knows then he knows. It would be a strange thing to say if he doesn't not to mention presumptuous on his part as, if he doesn't know, both his current and future boss will be a bit mystified.

There are plenty of reasons why it wouldn't be announced yet. The most obvious being that subsequent Bottas deal isn't quite done yet and/or Alfa want to announce it in Italy as the poster above says.

[Sandpit Steve]

andburg said:

I suspect this is all just waiting for Bottas to sign a contract and as a mark of respect merc are waiting for him to make his choice.

He's said he wants a multi year deal which suggests he doesn't have it nailed down and may still be speaking to multiple teams

Yes, it does sound like it’s just the timing of the contract signing and announcements now.

Kimi was the first move in the chess game. Now that we know he retires, the next announcement will be by Alfa Sauber (likely next weekend in Italy), then Mercedes, then Williams - if as we expect, Valtteri is going to Sauber and Russell to Mercedes.

[Milkyway]

Rumours Mill ( not gospel)...

Out: Bottas, Gio ( ob’ Kimi)
In: De Vries, Albon ( Williams)

Personally... Think Bottas to a Alfa & De Vries Williams.
( would leave seat @ Alfa... don’t know about Albon.
Would like to see Hulk back though.

[stemll]

Milkyway said:

Rumours Mill ( not gospel)...

Out: Bottas, Gio ( ob’ Kimi)
In: De Vries, Albon ( Williams)

Personally... Think Bottas to a Alfa & De Vries Williams.
( would leave seat @ Alfa... don’t know about Albon.
Would like to see Hulk back though.

Latifi is as good as confirmed at Williams from comments Capito has made. I don't think he's going anywhere and his dad owning Sofina and Lavazza has to help (even if they say they don't need pay-drivers, all drivers bring sponsorship and those are their two biggest).

[Milkyway]

stemll said:

Milkyway said:

Rumours Mill ( not gospel)...

Out: Bottas, Gio ( ob’ Kimi)
In: De Vries, Albon ( Williams)

Personally... Think Bottas / Alfa & De Vries / Williams.
( would leave seat @ Alfa... don’t know about Albon.
Would like to see Hulk back though.

Latifi is as good as confirmed at Williams from comments Capito has made. I don't think he's going anywhere and his dad owning Sofina and Lavazza has to help (even if they say they don't need pay-drivers, all drivers bring sponsorship and those are their two biggest).

[Milkyway]

Milkyway said:

stemll said:

Milkyway said:

Rumours Mill ( not gospel)...

Out: Bottas, Gio ( ob’ Kimi)
In: De Vries, Albon ( Williams)

Personally... Think Bottas / Alfa & De Vries / Williams.
( would leave seat @ Alfa... don’t know about Albon.
Would like to see Hulk back though.

Latifi is as good as confirmed at Williams from comments Capito has made. I don't think he's going anywhere and his dad owning Sofina and Lavazza has to help (even if they say they don't need pay-drivers, all drivers bring sponsorship and those are their two biggest).

Would be nice to have TALENT over £££££.

[Muzzer79]

Milkyway said:

Milkyway said:

stemll said:

Milkyway said:

Rumours Mill ( not gospel)...

Out: Bottas, Gio ( ob’ Kimi)
In: De Vries, Albon ( Williams)

Personally... Think Bottas / Alfa & De Vries / Williams.
( would leave seat @ Alfa... don’t know about Albon.
Would like to see Hulk back though.

Latifi is as good as confirmed at Williams from comments Capito has made. I don't think he's going anywhere and his dad owning Sofina and Lavazza has to help (even if they say they don't need pay-drivers, all drivers bring sponsorship and those are their two biggest).

Would be nice to have TALENT over £££££.

It's been this way since the dawn of motor racing. To go racing you need, from one source or another, money.

Lately, there's been a few sons of rich people. Much like the early years of the sport.

But let's not pretend that the greats of our sport didn't get where they did without cash behind them. Name any champion you like and they had personal sponsorship in one form or another.

[stemll]

Muzzer79 said:

Milkyway said:

Milkyway said:

stemll said:

Milkyway said:

Rumours Mill ( not gospel)...

Out: Bottas, Gio ( ob’ Kimi)
In: De Vries, Albon ( Williams)

Personally... Think Bottas / Alfa & De Vries / Williams.
( would leave seat @ Alfa... don’t know about Albon.
Would like to see Hulk back though.

Latifi is as good as confirmed at Williams from comments Capito has made. I don't think he's going anywhere and his dad owning Sofina and Lavazza has to help (even if they say they don't need pay-drivers, all drivers bring sponsorship and those are their two biggest).

Would be nice to have TALENT over £££££.

It's been this way since the dawn of motor racing. To go racing you need, from one source or another, money.

Lately, there's been a few sons of rich people. Much like the early years of the sport.

But let's not pretend that the greats of our sport didn't get where they did without cash behind them. Name any champion you like and they had personal sponsorship in one form or another.

Quite.

Let's not forget that Lauda bought his way into both F2 and F1 with a loan