Official 2021 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

Official 2021 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

Author
Discussion

aston80

264 posts

42 months

Saturday 5th June 2021
quotequote all
Piginapoke said:
TheLimla said:
Going to be another painful weekend for Lewis and Mercedes it seems...

That car is just so slow to get heat into its tyres it seems.
What does this actually mean? Not enough downforce?

Piginapoke

Original Poster:

4,770 posts

186 months

Saturday 5th June 2021
quotequote all
aston80 said:
Piginapoke said:
TheLimla said:
Going to be another painful weekend for Lewis and Mercedes it seems...

That car is just so slow to get heat into its tyres it seems.
What does this actually mean? Not enough downforce?
It’s a result of downforce and suspension design, the benefit is that it’s tyres typically last longer , like in Spain. Mercedes had DAS last year to compensate, but no more.

95 fiesta si

1,600 posts

153 months

Saturday 5th June 2021
quotequote all
I don't reckon the Mercs will be that far down come qualifying, be very shocked if they are !

I mean VB was keeping MV honest 2 weeks ago in Monaco, it was just Lewis that struggled in qualifying.

Man-At-Arms

5,907 posts

180 months

Saturday 5th June 2021
quotequote all
ggdrew said:
BUT Im conflicted because how can a race result stand when the winning cars are illegal under the regs? Its a mockery!
But as always in F1, the rules at the beginning of the season are ambiguous.
The teams exploit them and find loopholes to their advantage.

It’s only when the FIA realise how far the rules were bent (not broken), that they then start to make mid-season amendments.

Lotus - active downforce (1978)
Williams - active suspension (1989)
Brawn - double deck diffuser (2009)
RedBull - off throttle blown diffuser (2011)
Ferrari - fuel flow meter (2019)
Mercedes - dual axis steering (2020)

I’m sure there loads more I haven’t mentioned……

Derek Smith

45,736 posts

249 months

Saturday 5th June 2021
quotequote all
95 fiesta si said:
I don't reckon the Mercs will be that far down come qualifying, be very shocked if they are !

I mean VB was keeping MV honest 2 weeks ago in Monaco, it was just Lewis that struggled in qualifying.
Hamilton will be under pressure in the first few corners and probably first couple of laps. That might well cost him position. I like the bloke, I'm a bit of a Merc fan, but I am, sorry to say, rather glad. There are others who will struggle similarly, and we could get a situation of a number of cars 'out of place' in the first quarter of the race. To me, that's optimum, despite 'my' team, McL, probably being one of them. I want LH to have to fight, back to his days in the McL and the early Merc days. They showed his skills. Let's see his, and those of other drivers, out on circuit.

If the flexi wing is a big advantage, and if it wasn't it probably wouldn't be on the RB, then it adds a certain edge to the rest of the season, with LH trying to catch up. It seems odd, given that he had such a great start to 2021 when he normally struggles a bit. A strange season.

I think that RB knew that the rear wing would be called out, but also knew that the FIA would give them a time, and races, to sort it. To my mind it is cheating, but, on the whole, if it adds to the excitement, I'm glad they did it. This probably shows a weakness in morals on my behalf, but it is just a sport. It's there to entertain, and it's doing so this season, as it did in the last 10 or so.

Mind you, I don't want Horner to benefit.

SpudLink

5,865 posts

193 months

Saturday 5th June 2021
quotequote all
I agree with you, Derek. Like the cheat from the Red Team, it’s given us a chance to see Mercedes and Hamilton under real pressure. I would like to see Verstappen open up his championship lead a few more points, just so we can watch him being hunted down and beaten to the championship in the last race.

Piginapoke

Original Poster:

4,770 posts

186 months

Saturday 5th June 2021
quotequote all
Man-At-Arms said:
ggdrew said:
BUT Im conflicted because how can a race result stand when the winning cars are illegal under the regs? Its a mockery!
But as always in F1, the rules at the beginning of the season are ambiguous.
The teams exploit them and find loopholes to their advantage.

It’s only when the FIA realise how far the rules were bent (not broken), that they then start to make mid-season amendments.

Lotus - active downforce (1978)
Williams - active suspension (1989)
Brawn - double deck diffuser (2009)
RedBull - off throttle blown diffuser (2011)
Ferrari - fuel flow meter (2019)
Mercedes - dual axis steering (2020)

I’m sure there loads more I haven’t mentioned……
There are loads- it's one of the most interesting aspects of F1. It's certainly not cheating. A few more from me:

F Ducts
X Wings
Brabham Fan Car
McLaren fiddle brake
Williams 6 wheeled cars
Blown diffusers
Renault Mass Damper



ajprice

27,540 posts

197 months

Saturday 5th June 2021
quotequote all
Man-At-Arms said:
ggdrew said:
BUT Im conflicted because how can a race result stand when the winning cars are illegal under the regs? Its a mockery!
But as always in F1, the rules at the beginning of the season are ambiguous.
The teams exploit them and find loopholes to their advantage.

It’s only when the FIA realise how far the rules were bent (not broken), that they then start to make mid-season amendments.

Lotus - active downforce (1978)
Williams - active suspension (1989)
Brawn - double deck diffuser (2009)
RedBull - off throttle blown diffuser (2011)
Ferrari - fuel flow meter (2019)
Mercedes - dual axis steering (2020)

I’m sure there loads more I haven’t mentioned……
F-duct - banned and replaced by DRS systems.

Adrian W

13,895 posts

229 months

Saturday 5th June 2021
quotequote all
I hope The Mercs are trying to run lower downforce to get more speed on that stupid straight, resulting in the tyres taking longer to warm up,

resolve10

1,018 posts

46 months

Saturday 5th June 2021
quotequote all
Some interesting comments in this thread, and some totally wide of the mark.

The Red Bull 'flexi' wing is not illegal, it passed the FIA test. This kind of innovation happens all the time and what happens next usually goes one of two ways: 1) regulations are changed and the part becomes illegal and must be changed, or, 2) all the other teams copy it. Both neutralise the advantage and the whole process of finding the next advantage starts again.

Should also be noted that other teams were found to have flex in their wings, only reason there's fuss around Red Bull is they are leading the championship.

Red Bull have a new wing for Baku which, judging by a couple of shots from free practice, doesn't look to flex as much as the old one. Ironically, Mercedes also have a new wing that appears to flex perhaps even more than the Red Bull one did! I wonder if Mercedes realised their appeal wasn't going to prevent Red Bull using their wing for this race so they fast-tracked their own version?

Teddy Lop

8,301 posts

68 months

Saturday 5th June 2021
quotequote all
resolve10 said:
Some interesting comments in this thread, and some totally wide of the mark.

The Red Bull 'flexi' wing is not illegal, it passed the FIA test. This kind of innovation happens all the time and what happens next usually goes one of two ways: 1) regulations are changed and the part becomes illegal and must be changed, or, 2) all the other teams copy it. Both neutralise the advantage and the whole process of finding the next advantage starts again.

Should also be noted that other teams were found to have flex in their wings, only reason there's fuss around Red Bull is they are leading the championship.

Red Bull have a new wing for Baku which, judging by a couple of shots from free practice, doesn't look to flex as much as the old one. Ironically, Mercedes also have a new wing that appears to flex perhaps even more than the Red Bull one did! I wonder if Mercedes realised their appeal wasn't going to prevent Red Bull using their wing for this race so they fast-tracked their own version?
There's a thread dedicated the legal/not legal status of the red bull wing, please don't bring the mind numbing tedious entrenched warfare it's descended into into this one.

Leithen

10,941 posts

268 months

Saturday 5th June 2021
quotequote all
ajprice said:
Man-At-Arms said:
ggdrew said:
BUT Im conflicted because how can a race result stand when the winning cars are illegal under the regs? Its a mockery!
But as always in F1, the rules at the beginning of the season are ambiguous.
The teams exploit them and find loopholes to their advantage.

It’s only when the FIA realise how far the rules were bent (not broken), that they then start to make mid-season amendments.

Lotus - active downforce (1978)
Williams - active suspension (1989)
Brawn - double deck diffuser (2009)
RedBull - off throttle blown diffuser (2011)
Ferrari - fuel flow meter (2019)
Mercedes - dual axis steering (2020)

I’m sure there loads more I haven’t mentioned……
F-duct - banned and replaced by DRS systems.
All put in the shade by the Brabham BT49C and its hydro pneumatic suspension. Designed by Gordon Murray.

StevieBee

12,933 posts

256 months

Saturday 5th June 2021
quotequote all
Piginapoke said:
Williams 6 wheeled cars
Never raced though. I thought it was because they couldn't get the complex gearbox to work rather than it being banned. But may be wrong on that.

SpudLink

5,865 posts

193 months

Saturday 5th June 2021
quotequote all
I have to say, the cars look much better going through the re-profiled turn 8-9.

95 fiesta si

1,600 posts

153 months

Saturday 5th June 2021
quotequote all
Max in barriers, shouldn’t effect qualifying but won’t give him confidence and he will lose the rest of P3 before qualifying. Looks easy to go off here

TheDeuce

21,773 posts

67 months

Saturday 5th June 2021
quotequote all
Looked like downforce abandoned Max altogether there!

At least it was FP3 not quali - although the limited running will probably have a knock on effect..

resolve10

1,018 posts

46 months

Saturday 5th June 2021
quotequote all
Teddy Lop said:
There's a thread dedicated the legal/not legal status of the red bull wing, please don't bring the mind numbing tedious entrenched warfare it's descended into into this one.
I fully agree, apologies for that.

Not ideal but I don't think Max's off will affect him too much. There's enough pace in hand that he can slowly build up in Q1 and Q2 before we get to the business end.

95 fiesta si

1,600 posts

153 months

Saturday 5th June 2021
quotequote all
I know it’s only practice but when did we last see if ever a Alpha or Toro Rosso 1st and 2nd, there going well here

Piginapoke

Original Poster:

4,770 posts

186 months

Saturday 5th June 2021
quotequote all
They are just running out of sync, did soft runs early.

95 fiesta si

1,600 posts

153 months

Saturday 5th June 2021
quotequote all
Turn 15 throwing everyone off, literally