Official 2021 Azerbaijan Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***
Discussion
Mr Pointy said:
TheDeuce said:
The only downside is that across such a varying array of circuits each season, it's highly likely that every now and again such contrived tyres are simply not going to be good enough. (edited)
I do think it's a bit odd that many people (not necessarily you) are assuming that just because there were two incidents that there was an issue with the tyres in Baku & that the failures weren't caused by debris. Given that both failures were rear left & hence both ocurrred on the lesser loaded tyre it's far more likely that there was a specific track issue causing tyre damage, especially given that exactly the same tyre on Hamilton's car had visible damage.If the most highly stressed tyre had failed in both cases then yes, you might think that the tyre had failed but it's way less likley that the lower stressed tyre would give up in both cases. Plenty of other drivers did more laps on their tyres without issue.
Piginapoke said:
Mr Pointy said:
TheDeuce said:
The only downside is that across such a varying array of circuits each season, it's highly likely that every now and again such contrived tyres are simply not going to be good enough. (edited)
I do think it's a bit odd that many people (not necessarily you) are assuming that just because there were two incidents that there was an issue with the tyres in Baku & that the failures weren't caused by debris. Given that both failures were rear left & hence both ocurrred on the lesser loaded tyre it's far more likely that there was a specific track issue causing tyre damage, especially given that exactly the same tyre on Hamilton's car had visible damage.If the most highly stressed tyre had failed in both cases then yes, you might think that the tyre had failed but it's way less likley that the lower stressed tyre would give up in both cases. Plenty of other drivers did more laps on their tyres without issue.
Exige77 said:
Piginapoke said:
Mr Pointy said:
TheDeuce said:
The only downside is that across such a varying array of circuits each season, it's highly likely that every now and again such contrived tyres are simply not going to be good enough. (edited)
I do think it's a bit odd that many people (not necessarily you) are assuming that just because there were two incidents that there was an issue with the tyres in Baku & that the failures weren't caused by debris. Given that both failures were rear left & hence both ocurrred on the lesser loaded tyre it's far more likely that there was a specific track issue causing tyre damage, especially given that exactly the same tyre on Hamilton's car had visible damage.If the most highly stressed tyre had failed in both cases then yes, you might think that the tyre had failed but it's way less likley that the lower stressed tyre would give up in both cases. Plenty of other drivers did more laps on their tyres without issue.
Obviously other times we have seen an undeniable scale of repeat failures.. and regardless it wouldn't change my view about the contrived and fragile nature of F1 tyres in general bthese days.
Funny it should happen in exactly the same straight that Bottas had the flat in 2017.
You couldn’t see the immediate issue pre Stroll’s accident, probably because they didn’t want to show too much of him after the Monaco camerawork
But if you watch the slowmo of Max’s accident ( the closer of the two camera shots from in front of the car) and concentrate on the dark lines the tyre leaves as it deflates you can see a bit of debris about the size of a hand fly up in the air, just before the dark lines as they are being drawn.
edited to add pics :
Great race, for the wrong reasons but good to see the midfield close enough to take advantage of the leader’s mistakes rather than the top teams ending up in fifth and sixth position worst case scenario.
You couldn’t see the immediate issue pre Stroll’s accident, probably because they didn’t want to show too much of him after the Monaco camerawork
But if you watch the slowmo of Max’s accident ( the closer of the two camera shots from in front of the car) and concentrate on the dark lines the tyre leaves as it deflates you can see a bit of debris about the size of a hand fly up in the air, just before the dark lines as they are being drawn.
edited to add pics :
Great race, for the wrong reasons but good to see the midfield close enough to take advantage of the leader’s mistakes rather than the top teams ending up in fifth and sixth position worst case scenario.
Edited by talksthetorque on Wednesday 9th June 09:16
carinaman said:
It would be a Bob Judd story plot line that F1 Management Ltd. had remote control of 'The Magic'?
Ha! You can bet that Mercedes are hastily looking at either moving that button, or writing inhibit rules to stop it being pressed accidentally. A 26-point mistake, which in such a close season could decide the championship. 
Sandpit Steve said:
carinaman said:
It would be a Bob Judd story plot line that F1 Management Ltd. had remote control of 'The Magic'?
Ha! You can bet that Mercedes are hastily looking at either moving that button, or writing inhibit rules to stop it being pressed accidentally. A 26-point mistake, which in such a close season could decide the championship. He got himself in a smoking brake frenzy while peddle the story out loud he was content with a gentle run to 2nd. I think he left the tyre warming button on and forgot to switch it off. If it was so easy to brush it he would do it several times a race.
Still he had a result as he would have been 3rd this race and dropped a lot of points to max.
Still he had a result as he would have been 3rd this race and dropped a lot of points to max.
Fundoreen said:
He got himself in a smoking brake frenzy while peddle the story out loud he was content with a gentle run to 2nd. I think he left the tyre warming button on and forgot to switch it off. If it was so easy to brush it he would do it several times a race.
Still he had a result as he would have been 3rd this race and dropped a lot of points to max.
Not necessarily easy to brush and it wasn't on at the restart apparently. He knocked it on whilst wrestling the steering wheel as he battled off the line with Perez. I assume when he had to snatch to the left as Perez moved over: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUZPkjFbytYStill he had a result as he would have been 3rd this race and dropped a lot of points to max.
Everything can be made safer or more out of the way of course... but that doesn't mean that it was overtly easy to trigger either. Sometimes freak things just happen, even if it's a one in a million chance and anyone reviewing it beforehand would have said there was no real risk of it happening.
Fundoreen said:
He got himself in a smoking brake frenzy while peddle the story out loud he was content with a gentle run to 2nd. I think he left the tyre warming button on and forgot to switch it off. If it was so easy to brush it he would do it several times a race.
The team would have known if it was left on for the start. This wasn't some story made up in parc-ferme to cover up an error, they mentioned it on the team radio during the race.TheDeuce said:
Fundoreen said:
He got himself in a smoking brake frenzy while peddle the story out loud he was content with a gentle run to 2nd. I think he left the tyre warming button on and forgot to switch it off. If it was so easy to brush it he would do it several times a race.
Still he had a result as he would have been 3rd this race and dropped a lot of points to max.
Not necessarily easy to brush and it wasn't on at the restart apparently. He knocked it on whilst wrestling the steering wheel as he battled off the line with Perez. I assume when he had to snatch to the left as Perez moved over: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUZPkjFbytYStill he had a result as he would have been 3rd this race and dropped a lot of points to max.
Everything can be made safer or more out of the way of course... but that doesn't mean that it was overtly easy to trigger either. Sometimes freak things just happen, even if it's a one in a million chance and anyone reviewing it beforehand would have said there was no real risk of it happening.
Problem with moving it is, I believe most of the drivers personalise their steering wheels. Even if they don't, but especially if they do, everything will be where it is for a reason, and items that need quick access will be the easiest to find / closest to the thumb / whatever. So it's likely currently where it is because it's where Lewis wanted it to be, and moving it and making it less accessible may well cause its own performance problems.
kiseca said:
TheDeuce said:
Fundoreen said:
He got himself in a smoking brake frenzy while peddle the story out loud he was content with a gentle run to 2nd. I think he left the tyre warming button on and forgot to switch it off. If it was so easy to brush it he would do it several times a race.
Still he had a result as he would have been 3rd this race and dropped a lot of points to max.
Not necessarily easy to brush and it wasn't on at the restart apparently. He knocked it on whilst wrestling the steering wheel as he battled off the line with Perez. I assume when he had to snatch to the left as Perez moved over: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUZPkjFbytYStill he had a result as he would have been 3rd this race and dropped a lot of points to max.
Everything can be made safer or more out of the way of course... but that doesn't mean that it was overtly easy to trigger either. Sometimes freak things just happen, even if it's a one in a million chance and anyone reviewing it beforehand would have said there was no real risk of it happening.
Chances of winning the lottery are even more remote than that - but I here it happens every now and then
We just don't know. Maybe it was an oversight to have it where it can be knocked easily. Maybe it was just a case of sods law that a fold in his glove somehow managed to move a setting that you wouldn't have thought it possible could.
Luckily it's Mercedes so at some point they'll probably explain it all in detail including how they've improved it.
In the interview I saw with him on C4 he did say he hit it accidentally when Perez moved towards him, which supports that. Maybe his hands were still occupied with the clutch or other settings or something when he had to steer left, but he's had plenty of times in a start where he's had to move too. Maybe he has hit it before but usually has enough time to fix it before he needs the brakes.
Problem with moving it is, I believe most of the drivers personalise their steering wheels. Even if they don't, but especially if they do, everything will be where it is for a reason, and items that need quick access will be the easiest to find / closest to the thumb / whatever. So it's likely currently where it is because it's where Lewis wanted it to be, and moving it and making it less accessible may well cause its own performance problems.
TheDeuce said:
hunter 66 said:
More like an old fashion , late braking lock up , on non optimal tyre temps .... all the "magic" button talk , not so sure , as that would surely be a safer operation method
I think the 'magic' button just puts the brake bias all the way forwards to help heat up the fronts? So as soon as he hit the brakes, the fronts immediately locked up.
Was my understanding, I haven't really watched / read about it in any detail though. Not that I don't think Lewis can make a mistake, just that that's the reason they're giving.
SturdyHSV said:
I think the 'magic' button just puts the brake bias all the way forwards to help heat up the fronts?
So as soon as he hit the brakes, the fronts immediately locked up.
Was my understanding, I haven't really watched / read about it in any detail though. Not that I don't think Lewis can make a mistake, just that that's the reason they're giving.
Anthony Davidson pretty much confirmed based on his time in the simulator but was careful with his language.So as soon as he hit the brakes, the fronts immediately locked up.
Was my understanding, I haven't really watched / read about it in any detail though. Not that I don't think Lewis can make a mistake, just that that's the reason they're giving.
The Mercedes youtube debrief is normally out on Wednesday after the race?
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