Jamie Chadwick - First competitive female driver in F1?
Discussion
TheDeuce said:
However, I also think that she should ideally go to F3. I accept it is a meaningful step up from W series but it's still a perfectly reasonable next step. But she's not interested.
I think Jamie actually said something along the lines of wanting to buy a house rather than 'risk' money by pursuing a career towards F1.
There's a chunk of mindset missing I think, perhaps revealing part of why it is proving endlessly impossible to get a serious female competitor into F1?
Interesting.I think Jamie actually said something along the lines of wanting to buy a house rather than 'risk' money by pursuing a career towards F1.
There's a chunk of mindset missing I think, perhaps revealing part of why it is proving endlessly impossible to get a serious female competitor into F1?
It sounds like she's not convinced she has what it takes for F1 and doesn't want to risk her reputation in F3.
Fair enough I suppose.
She should be able to earn a decent living from sports cars if she's interested in that?
ImFeelingSaucy said:
TheDeuce said:
However, I also think that she should ideally go to F3. I accept it is a meaningful step up from W series but it's still a perfectly reasonable next step. But she's not interested.
I think Jamie actually said something along the lines of wanting to buy a house rather than 'risk' money by pursuing a career towards F1.
There's a chunk of mindset missing I think, perhaps revealing part of why it is proving endlessly impossible to get a serious female competitor into F1?
Interesting.I think Jamie actually said something along the lines of wanting to buy a house rather than 'risk' money by pursuing a career towards F1.
There's a chunk of mindset missing I think, perhaps revealing part of why it is proving endlessly impossible to get a serious female competitor into F1?
It sounds like she's not convinced she has what it takes for F1 and doesn't want to risk her reputation in F3.
Fair enough I suppose.
She should be able to earn a decent living from sports cars if she's interested in that?
That's all well and good but It's not an attitude that leads anyone to F1. It is an attitude that would entirely confuse most (not the paid up yuppies) of the current grid.
Hamilton and his family risked everything for his shot, and then potentially risked it again when he went to Merc. Lauda was prepared to walk away from a guaranteed fortune for a gamble on the road to F1. I'm sure there have been countless others that thought 'f
k it, i'm in with a shot of getting paid, probably getting laid... Let's pursue this'. And then got nowhere, especially on the latter intention...The daft thing is I love and appreciate my wife for being a safety brake when I get over excited about things sometimes, it seems to be a very natural thing for a woman to apply as much passion to an endeavour as a man but also have that 'what if it doesn't work out' trip switch remain in tact. I don't wish to generalise, I have no doubt there are plenty of women out there just as stupid as most men... But finding a woman able to fully forget any thoughts about personal safety or future family plans that also has an innate ability to drive on the limit with confidence at F1 speeds? Statistically I can't help but think that search could take a very long time.
Or maybe I'm talking absolute b
ks and there is a more likely explanation that despite so many years of trying, no one has been able to identify?I fail to see how having a woman on your team as a token gesture benefits the team or her to be honest,. as anyone worth their salt is going to dig deeper and find out all she has probably done is a bit of sim time and we can all do that, the team benefit more for having her involved as a lot of people will not ask these questions.
I will add I do not think she is good enough tog et anywhere near F1, but she is making the right decisions for her future now, she has realised this and made the decision that USA is best, more opportunity, she is not "known" there so can perhaps get some great deals.
I will add I do not think she is good enough tog et anywhere near F1, but she is making the right decisions for her future now, she has realised this and made the decision that USA is best, more opportunity, she is not "known" there so can perhaps get some great deals.
TheDeuce said:
TikTak said:
LukeBrown66 said:
And this CHadwick situation I find very odd, she is a great driver, what would be the harm in getting her out in a car once or twice
Its likely a few things. Cost, if she smashes the car. And experience the step from W series to F1 is huge.Potentially speed. If she's say 3 seconds slower than say Sargeant in the sim, because of the physicality if it puts her another 1.5 behind, it's not going to look great or do her any favours.
I personally wonder if NXT was the way to go. In license terms it's not a step although the cars or more powerful. I'm surprised they didn't get her in Super Formula or regionals if not putting her in F3 as I guess they're thinking F2 is too bigger jump too.
I mean, c'mon... W series cars are based on F3 and are about the closest to F3, if winning W series three times doesn't line someone up for an F3 seat then honestly what is the point!?
I just wonder what the NXT series gives her if the goal (as she has said) is an F1 drive? If she won in F3 (assuming she can hit the ground running because of the similarities), she hits ups F2 the year after with arguably an easier route to F1 from there. If she wins NXT, she goes to IndyCar with a bigger step to get back to F1?
The more I think about it I wonder if a step to Formula-E might have been a nice route. Shorter races to avoid the physical aspect and put her on the radar in terms of mixed sex pace although no one has gone from FE to F1, only the other way I believe?
TikTak said:
Yeah I mean I would tend to agree. Although I personally think the jump from WSeries to F3 is almost a little pointless in terms of technicality because the cars are so similar, I guess the move would totally be to race against male talent.
Jamie has raced in the 2019-20 Asian F3 Championship
She came 4th overall behind Nikita Mazepin, only ten drivers competed in every round.
Joey Alders who won it with nearly double the points Jamie scored has driven nothing since 2021. Jack Doohan who came second isn't exactly setting the world alight, but has his fathers name and I suspect a lot more backing behind him.
Jamie Chadwick knows deep down she doesn't have the talent for F1. She is happy to take the Formula W money, buy a house with it and secure her future, who could blame her? She is never going to risk that money on an F3 drive because she knows it's a waste of time and money.
Better to sit on the periphery of F1, play the game, say all the right things and secure your financial future.
andburg said:
I'd be interested to know the cost differential of F2 / F3 and NXT
wouldn't surprise me if the cost competing in NXT is lower than the others due to being a national series vs international
She’s likely getting something of a cheque for NXT, plus prize money and maybe some sponsorship - whereas she’d be writing a very big one for an FIA single-seat series. wouldn't surprise me if the cost competing in NXT is lower than the others due to being a national series vs international
I’ve heard numbers of £2m for FIA F3 and up to £4m for F2 mentioned before, as the cost of running a single car for the season, which is pretty much totally on the driver to fund.
An average Indycar team spends less than F2 per car per season, as there’s no flyaway races and the crews generally camp out. NXT is a level down from that, with cheaper cars and smaller teams.
Joey Deacon said:
TikTak said:
Yeah I mean I would tend to agree. Although I personally think the jump from WSeries to F3 is almost a little pointless in terms of technicality because the cars are so similar, I guess the move would totally be to race against male talent.
Jamie has raced in the 2019-20 Asian F3 ChampionshipShe came 4th overall behind Nikita Mazepin, only ten drivers competed in every round.
Joey Alders who won it with nearly double the points Jamie scored has driven nothing since 2021. Jack Doohan who came second isn't exactly setting the world alight, but has his fathers name and I suspect a lot more backing behind him.
Jamie Chadwick knows deep down she doesn't have the talent for F1. She is happy to take the Formula W money, buy a house with it and secure her future, who could blame her? She is never going to risk that money on an F3 drive because she knows it's a waste of time and money.
Better to sit on the periphery of F1, play the game, say all the right things and secure your financial future.
FIA F3 cars are bigger, heavier and more powerful, and without power steering, so would definitely be a measurable step up from WS.
thegreenhell said:
Joey Deacon said:
TikTak said:
Yeah I mean I would tend to agree. Although I personally think the jump from WSeries to F3 is almost a little pointless in terms of technicality because the cars are so similar, I guess the move would totally be to race against male talent.
Jamie has raced in the 2019-20 Asian F3 ChampionshipShe came 4th overall behind Nikita Mazepin, only ten drivers competed in every round.
Joey Alders who won it with nearly double the points Jamie scored has driven nothing since 2021. Jack Doohan who came second isn't exactly setting the world alight, but has his fathers name and I suspect a lot more backing behind him.
Jamie Chadwick knows deep down she doesn't have the talent for F1. She is happy to take the Formula W money, buy a house with it and secure her future, who could blame her? She is never going to risk that money on an F3 drive because she knows it's a waste of time and money.
Better to sit on the periphery of F1, play the game, say all the right things and secure your financial future.
FIA F3 cars are bigger, heavier and more powerful, and without power steering, so would definitely be a measurable step up from WS.
Joey Deacon said:
TikTak said:
Yeah I mean I would tend to agree. Although I personally think the jump from WSeries to F3 is almost a little pointless in terms of technicality because the cars are so similar, I guess the move would totally be to race against male talent.
Jamie has raced in the 2019-20 Asian F3 ChampionshipShe came 4th overall behind Nikita Mazepin, only ten drivers competed in every round.
Joey Alders who won it with nearly double the points Jamie scored has driven nothing since 2021. Jack Doohan who came second isn't exactly setting the world alight, but has his fathers name and I suspect a lot more backing behind him.
Jamie Chadwick knows deep down she doesn't have the talent for F1. She is happy to take the Formula W money, buy a house with it and secure her future, who could blame her? She is never going to risk that money on an F3 drive because she knows it's a waste of time and money.
Better to sit on the periphery of F1, play the game, say all the right things and secure your financial future.
But my earlier point was that, for a woman to get to male levels of motorsport excellence, making practical sense and lifestyle choices shouldn't be the decision maker. Saying 'f
k it, if this doesn't work I'm penniless and homeless, I have to make this work' is a sentiment that you're massively more likely to hear from a man than a woman.And that sentiment needs to be supported by mum from day one when a young girl shows an interest in 'being like Jamie' and racing cars for a living. How many mums will tell their 9 year old daughters to stop dreaming about marriage and babies and to jump into a kart and race with the boys? With a final good bit of advice 'don't be scared if they're a bit mean, if they take a big risk you have to as well - off you go!'
I'm always in two minds about whether my blunt assessment of the difference between men and women is wise when it comes to these sorts of threads. But I'm a human, I'm not a machine - I make judgements based on probability based on what I see in the real world and I know that my male friends encourage their sons to go for it, my female friends encourage their daughters to be sensible and not follow the reckless/silly/spontaneous behavior of the boys. There is very clearly a fundamental difference of approach to life and parenting at a formative age is there not? And I'm sure some chemical differences affecting stupidity vs nest building inclinations that further creates differences in inclination when it comes to really focussing on nothing in life other than motorsport, despite the risks, including the risk of not ever actually being successful enough to justify those risks.
I think you'd have to be an idiot to ignore the different pressures that face men and women, disregarding societal ones.
Women have a finite amount of time to have children, so that is a factor in career decisions. If you have a family, particularly young dependant children, I'd say you're probably a lot less likely to want to take massive risks on the track to get past someone, or to gain that extra tenth you're missing, etc. Would Vettel have done better in his last years in F1 if he hadn't started a family and realised there was more to life than motorsport?
I think your last paragraph nails it really. Women are generally brought up to be sensible, which is the antithesis of what's needed to excel in F1 - the pinnacle of motorsport. To do well in F1 I think you have to be arrogant, self-centred, ruthless, unflinching, driven, etc - even if you can contain that stuff to a greater or lesser extent - off of the track. These traits aren't typical in women, and they're not encouraged in women, for a variety of reasons - it's seen as unbecoming of women to behave this way (contrast how driven men and women are perceived in business environments), and consequently they're not raised this way.
Women have a finite amount of time to have children, so that is a factor in career decisions. If you have a family, particularly young dependant children, I'd say you're probably a lot less likely to want to take massive risks on the track to get past someone, or to gain that extra tenth you're missing, etc. Would Vettel have done better in his last years in F1 if he hadn't started a family and realised there was more to life than motorsport?
I think your last paragraph nails it really. Women are generally brought up to be sensible, which is the antithesis of what's needed to excel in F1 - the pinnacle of motorsport. To do well in F1 I think you have to be arrogant, self-centred, ruthless, unflinching, driven, etc - even if you can contain that stuff to a greater or lesser extent - off of the track. These traits aren't typical in women, and they're not encouraged in women, for a variety of reasons - it's seen as unbecoming of women to behave this way (contrast how driven men and women are perceived in business environments), and consequently they're not raised this way.
There are some interesting slants on the topic here.
But one thing does remain, and that is that there could and hopefully will be a female driver who has the talent, drive and backing to make all the stpes regardless of "female" pressures.
The reason why it has not happened is obvious, the talent pool is already very small and finding a woman with the requisite talent, drive and backing who is prepared to giuve up that "female" life is a very long shot
But I do think it is possible, if unlikely. Some have got close. And let's face it these days you can have families later in life, so like in other careers, a woman could devote the first 35 years to this and still have a family
But one thing does remain, and that is that there could and hopefully will be a female driver who has the talent, drive and backing to make all the stpes regardless of "female" pressures.
The reason why it has not happened is obvious, the talent pool is already very small and finding a woman with the requisite talent, drive and backing who is prepared to giuve up that "female" life is a very long shot
But I do think it is possible, if unlikely. Some have got close. And let's face it these days you can have families later in life, so like in other careers, a woman could devote the first 35 years to this and still have a family
Dont think we need to worry about the getting married and having kids angle of it. These days, generally if you haven't made to F1 by about 25 years old you are past it and not going to. A woman could easily have 5-10 years in F1 or any other series, before worrying about settling down.
Max is only 25 now and has been around for ages, the current World Rally Champion is 22, F2 champions have all been 20-24 when they won.
Max is only 25 now and has been around for ages, the current World Rally Champion is 22, F2 champions have all been 20-24 when they won.
RB Will said:
Dont think we need to worry about the getting married and having kids angle of it. These days, generally if you haven't made to F1 by about 25 years old you are past it and not going to. A woman could easily have 5-10 years in F1 or any other series, before worrying about settling down.
Max is only 25 now and has been around for ages, the current World Rally Champion is 22, F2 champions have all been 20-24 when they won.
Ahh but women do tend to have thoughts and plans leading up to creating the ideal nest quite some time before they actually do. Like I said earlier, Jamie said the decision to buy a house whilst she had the funds trumped the potential to (part) self fund an F3 drive. It was perfectly reasonable thing to say and do but also it does signify there are things on her mind well outside of pushing herself to be the most focussed, racing obsessed version of herself she could ever be.Max is only 25 now and has been around for ages, the current World Rally Champion is 22, F2 champions have all been 20-24 when they won.
Of course we shouldn't focus on the kids and family thing too much, for all we know she has no such intentions - some people don't. But the principle stands, there was a sliding door moment and she chose sensible security over taking the next, admittedly very bold, leap forward as a racing driver. That's not a criticism on any level, it's just an observation.
I just don’t know in her particular case if it is classic female nesting or whatever term we want to use. It is just the sensible choice. I’d do it in her position too.
She knows in her head she won’t win F3/2/1 and is set up and funded for a very nice life. Would be daft to throw it all away proving to everyone else what you already know.
She knows in her head she won’t win F3/2/1 and is set up and funded for a very nice life. Would be daft to throw it all away proving to everyone else what you already know.
ch37 said:
Sophia Floersch has just announced she has an F3 seat for next season, she hasn't driven single seaters for a few years. I still can't quite figure out how Chadwick hasn't ended up on that ladder.
Great news for Sophia, after a few years in sportscars, and good to see at least one lady on the F3 grid. She was a critic of the W Series when it launched, suggesting that seggregated racing was unlikely to get a lady into F1, and preferring to do her own thing.
She is right, we all know it was a largely flawed format, unless you were good enough to dominate as Jamie was and earn 1.5 million from daft investors who signed up no doubt expecting the winners to be catapulted into F1.
Fair play to her, she knows her limits, and is now in the best place for females racers, America where she will carve out a no doubt long ans fruitful career!
Fair play to her, she knows her limits, and is now in the best place for females racers, America where she will carve out a no doubt long ans fruitful career!
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