Jamie Chadwick - First competitive female driver in F1?
Discussion
Sandpit Steve said:
chappj said:
My 12yr old daughter has started karting this year as a direct effect from her seeing the W series. Before this she didn’t believe other girls/women competed in motorsport.
Even at our grass roots level it still feels like a male dominated sport. Very very few girls competing at club level karting.
I agree W series championship should = FIA F3 seat.
That’s awesome, good luck to her! Even at our grass roots level it still feels like a male dominated sport. Very very few girls competing at club level karting.
I agree W series championship should = FIA F3 seat.
The one thing WS has done well, is publicising the number of women in competitive motorsport. The next woman F1 driver might well be someone who was exposed to WS and decided to go karting.
Sandpit Steve said:
chappj said:
My 12yr old daughter has started karting this year as a direct effect from her seeing the W series. Before this she didn’t believe other girls/women competed in motorsport.
Even at our grass roots level it still feels like a male dominated sport. Very very few girls competing at club level karting.
I agree W series championship should = FIA F3 seat.
That’s awesome, good luck to her! Even at our grass roots level it still feels like a male dominated sport. Very very few girls competing at club level karting.
I agree W series championship should = FIA F3 seat.
The one thing WS has done well, is publicising the number of women in competitive motorsport. The next woman F1 driver might well be someone who was exposed to WS and decided to go karting.
to your daughter - hope she really enjoys it. I started karting aged 12 as part of a school project in the early 80s, but had to give up dreams of a motorsport career when I hit 6'4" and 15 stone by age 15.....I'm being a bit presumptive in assuming your daughter won't struggle to fit in a kart like I did after a few years. 
Agree with other posters W Series needs to up it's support to getting into F3 - £500,000 buys about 1/5 of an F3 season, so it's leaving drivers stranded
My question to those who say weak-ass W Series should give an F3 seat to it's unworthy champion is, which F3 team should be lumbered with the driver realistically not good enough to be there? When not even FREC has such an agreement despite considering more capable drivers competing in it.
Chadwick herself has just proven quite convincingly that winning W Series does not indicate adequate talent to be good enough for F3, considering she was beyond poor in FREC despite driving for Prema (PREMA!) and racing against younger, less experienced drivers. She not only got beaten but pulparised. If she is the greatest W Series can provide then the rest have no chance at all.
Chadwick herself has just proven quite convincingly that winning W Series does not indicate adequate talent to be good enough for F3, considering she was beyond poor in FREC despite driving for Prema (PREMA!) and racing against younger, less experienced drivers. She not only got beaten but pulparised. If she is the greatest W Series can provide then the rest have no chance at all.
jsf said:
It's a ridiculous series to do as a stepping stone to F1.
Go kick everyone's arse in the proper feeder series if you have any talent.
Despite it's PR BS, W Series is not a F1 feeders series. It's not even an F3 feeder series. It's a series full of hopeless F4 rejects that wouldn't hold their own in mid level F4 fields. In reality, the F1 feeder series starts at FIA F3. The lower series than that weed out the drivers that don't have what it takes.Go kick everyone's arse in the proper feeder series if you have any talent.
JonChalk said:
I'm slowly coming to the view that W Series is not what it set out to be, which makes me sad - and in parallel coming round to the view that "separate" racing is not what's needed.
It was never going to be, because it was never going to be in a position to do so because of it's own decisions. It has chosen to limit itself to the bottom end of the talent bowl meaning the chances of it having a driver capable of progressing further was very slim. Any driver good enough would avoid it anyway as they would be good enough to get drives in the decent series elsewhere.JonChalk said:
Chadwick has won the series twice, is a Williams development driver and competes in multiple other series, yet still can't even get into FIA F3.
But she CAN, she was reportedly offered an F3 drive for 2022 but turned it down because it seemingly wasn't in a good enough team for her liking. There is increasing evidence that it is Chadwick's entitled attitude that is holding her back, on top of her poor results. Given she finished almost at the back of the 2020 Formula Regional European Championship driving for Prema, behind part-time racers for lesser teams, she is quite frankly lucky to get any offers at all. Hazel Southwell writing for Racefans confirmed this to be the case.chappj said:
My 12yr old daughter has started karting this year as a direct effect from her seeing the W series. Before this she didn’t believe other girls/women competed in motorsport.
Even at our grass roots level it still feels like a male dominated sport. Very very few girls competing at club level karting.
I agree W series championship should = FIA F3 seat.
So what is your plan when the inevitable happens and she loses interest, because the passing fad becomes something else and that gets her attention instead? That's the problem with this type of coersive social manipulation, if you take advantage of the short attention span to manipulate them it to something, there will always be something else to take it's place.Even at our grass roots level it still feels like a male dominated sport. Very very few girls competing at club level karting.
I agree W series championship should = FIA F3 seat.
You can't force interest in something, it may work for a short period but it just festers resentment long term that ultimately causes damage. You only have to look at the rebellious teen stage of life.
Chrishum said:
I think it’s this point that those who are writing off W series are missing. Kids who make it to high levels of motorsport start very early, if young girls see females racing cars on tv then they are more likely to develop an interest. Eventually more women will drive in lower formula and the likelihood of one or more of them making it to F1 becomes greater. It probably won’t be Jamie Chadwick, maybe not even any of the current W series grid but it’s a long process not an overnight magic bullet.
No one is "missing" this, this is an entirely imagined ideal. Something you wish and hope to happen in the future. Human beings are not so simplistic, and those enfused by such low-level manipulation will not grow up to have any real passion in the subject anyway. Have you not learned anything from the many generations that have been brainwashed with religious dogma only to grow up to not religious at all as a result. You have just replaced one dogma with another here.Short term the boosting of Chadwick way beyond her realistic level may have a 'positive' effect but it will be short-lived when the reality hits home. When simply being an entitled brat wanting to go racing doesn't provide the results some claimed it would and that you have to work hard and get results to proceed.
The reality is becoming a racing driver is a life of dedication, and none of those getting interested because of Chadwick and co have the level of interest required to be dedicated enough to get that far. There will always be another in the list of manipulative fads shaping impressionable minds into the wills of others.
Not being able to be with the friends during their free time or having to commit every second of their free time to one thing will become a negative if they aren't 100% passionate about it.
JonChalk said:
Agree with other posters W Series needs to up it's support to getting into F3 - £500,000 buys about 1/5 of an F3 season, so it's leaving drivers stranded
It also means you have about 1/5 of the required talent required, so sounds about right. W Series already pays more prize money than the series supposedly at the same level, series that contain considerably more talent. Especially when you considering W Series drives also have the privilege of not having to pay towards their drive, something different to everywhere else.As always, funding is a convenient excuse designed to brush the real reason under the carpet, that the drivers in question just are not good enough yet are continuously and endlessly excused for poor performances just because they're women. Compare and contrast Jamie Chadwick to Alex Quinn or Grégoire Saucy, both of whom receive far less attention than Chadwick does.
Saucy far exceeded Chadwick being a FREC champion while Quinn finished in the same spot as Chadwick did in 2020, 9th. Neither one of which have had widespread claims they deserve better or whining that 'they aren't getting the drives they deserve' despite superior and equal results as Chadwick has had.
It will happen I am convinced of it.
But I also think the issue now is that in any series SO many girls are taking part that their ability to find sponsors is perhaps getting harder, in the past it was a little easier, decent driver, probably got higher up the ladder than she ought to have because she was vaguely pretty, knew how to promote herself or got a team to do it, and was able to attract enough money to do a higher ranking series.
I am thinking Legge, Wolff, the SImmonites in rallying, none of them were top drawer but good enough to compete in the midfield, and good enough to attract good sponsors for a while. Legge has made a career in the US, and found her level, she is a damn good GT driver,
Jamie I think is a good driver but cannot find that bit extra to move up, maybe she is not quick enough, but if it is only about money that is sad.
But I also think the issue now is that in any series SO many girls are taking part that their ability to find sponsors is perhaps getting harder, in the past it was a little easier, decent driver, probably got higher up the ladder than she ought to have because she was vaguely pretty, knew how to promote herself or got a team to do it, and was able to attract enough money to do a higher ranking series.
I am thinking Legge, Wolff, the SImmonites in rallying, none of them were top drawer but good enough to compete in the midfield, and good enough to attract good sponsors for a while. Legge has made a career in the US, and found her level, she is a damn good GT driver,
Jamie I think is a good driver but cannot find that bit extra to move up, maybe she is not quick enough, but if it is only about money that is sad.
The W Series should get behind the top three drivers in each year and promote each into an International series. Overall winner into F3 or F2 for a full season with a leading team. Second place into a single seater team with the first half of the season and third place into a full season in a leading GT or saloon team. None of these three should be allowed back into the series. I was under the impression that the series was to promote females up through the various racing series but presently it’s a stagnant pond with no movement out.
It’s riding on the shirttails of F1 so money shouldn’t be a problem. The big names behind it should use their contacts and get the money in even if it’s a tv channel or a multinational company. Plenty of people have made many millions out of F1 whether they be drivers, team owners or sponsors so Liberty or the FIA could extract money from these to fund W Series.
It’s riding on the shirttails of F1 so money shouldn’t be a problem. The big names behind it should use their contacts and get the money in even if it’s a tv channel or a multinational company. Plenty of people have made many millions out of F1 whether they be drivers, team owners or sponsors so Liberty or the FIA could extract money from these to fund W Series.
Edited by Tazar on Sunday 8th May 00:12
Given that double champion Chadwick is consistently beating the other drivers and yet is still considered not fast enough to progress elsewhere, what does that say about the rest of the W Series field?
If they can't beat someone considered not fast enough, should they just give up now? Should we pack up the W Series circus and go home as there are no fast drivers participating and therefore it's all pointless?
If they can't beat someone considered not fast enough, should they just give up now? Should we pack up the W Series circus and go home as there are no fast drivers participating and therefore it's all pointless?
carl_w said:
Bright Halo said:
Jamie going again in Formula W
What is the point, all she can do is go backwards after winning two years on the trott?
Surely the prize should be an F1 test?
Or an F3 seat.What is the point, all she can do is go backwards after winning two years on the trott?
Surely the prize should be an F1 test?
chappj said:
My 12yr old daughter has started karting this year as a direct effect from her seeing the W series. Before this she didn’t believe other girls/women competed in motorsport.
Even at our grass roots level it still feels like a male dominated sport. Very very few girls competing at club level karting.
I agree W series championship should = FIA F3 seat.
Agreed but rich or well off parents kids the boys usually would go down the karting route and girls horses as thats what both are more likely to be into. There were girls racing when I did in late 90s early 2000s 1 or 2 were OK but none ran at the front. They were treated exactly the same as any of the boys.Even at our grass roots level it still feels like a male dominated sport. Very very few girls competing at club level karting.
I agree W series championship should = FIA F3 seat.
Cold said:
Given that double champion Chadwick is consistently beating the other drivers and yet is still considered not fast enough to progress elsewhere, what does that say about the rest of the W Series field?
If they can't beat someone considered not fast enough, should they just give up now? Should we pack up the W Series circus and go home as there are no fast drivers participating and therefore it's all pointless?
Who said she wasn’t fast enough?If they can't beat someone considered not fast enough, should they just give up now? Should we pack up the W Series circus and go home as there are no fast drivers participating and therefore it's all pointless?
I don't think the W Series grid is packed with talent, but it's only the 3rd season.
It's primarily a PR exercise at this point, but give it time we'll hopefully see some young girls taking up karting and filtering through. There has to be some progression.
It's primarily a PR exercise at this point, but give it time we'll hopefully see some young girls taking up karting and filtering through. There has to be some progression.
Fat Thor said:
Who said she wasn’t fast enough?
jsf said:
She isn't quick enough.
Vips beat her by 1 point when he missed 14 races in Formula Regional in 2020, it's probably not far from being correct.Tazar said:
The W Series should get behind the top three drivers in each year and promote each into an International series.
I agree. There needs to be some kind of progression mechanism in place. Saying that the top few get to automatically race in W Series again next season is tantamount to an exam board saying the top scoring GCSE students get to do their GCSEs again instead of progressing to A Levels.I wonder if there will be pressure put on the FIA to change the regs to make F1 more friendly to women drivers. Limiting G for instance. Are the cars physically difficult to drive, if so, ensure they are useable by elite female athletes.
I've spoken to a few female WEC-type drivers and the consensus was that they believed they are/could be the equal of male drivers in their sport. This despite the demands of driving a Le Mans ES car for an hour or so, then repeat.
The question is, why are F1 cars so demanding physically to drive? It should be about skills and racecraft they might suggest.
I've spoken to a few female WEC-type drivers and the consensus was that they believed they are/could be the equal of male drivers in their sport. This despite the demands of driving a Le Mans ES car for an hour or so, then repeat.
The question is, why are F1 cars so demanding physically to drive? It should be about skills and racecraft they might suggest.
Fat Thor said:
Cold said:
Given that double champion Chadwick is consistently beating the other drivers and yet is still considered not fast enough to progress elsewhere, what does that say about the rest of the W Series field?
If they can't beat someone considered not fast enough, should they just give up now? Should we pack up the W Series circus and go home as there are no fast drivers participating and therefore it's all pointless?
Who said she wasn’t fast enough?If they can't beat someone considered not fast enough, should they just give up now? Should we pack up the W Series circus and go home as there are no fast drivers participating and therefore it's all pointless?
Derek Smith said:
I wonder if there will be pressure put on the FIA to change the regs to make F1 more friendly to women drivers. Limiting G for instance. Are the cars physically difficult to drive, if so, ensure they are useable by elite female athletes.
I've spoken to a few female WEC-type drivers and the consensus was that they believed they are/could be the equal of male drivers in their sport. This despite the demands of driving a Le Mans ES car for an hour or so, then repeat.
The question is, why are F1 cars so demanding physically to drive? It should be about skills and racecraft they might suggest.
The most insightful comment I’ve read on this subject was from Tatiana Calderon, who was the last lady to race in F2 and has tested F1 cars. I've spoken to a few female WEC-type drivers and the consensus was that they believed they are/could be the equal of male drivers in their sport. This despite the demands of driving a Le Mans ES car for an hour or so, then repeat.
The question is, why are F1 cars so demanding physically to drive? It should be about skills and racecraft they might suggest.
Her comment was that it’s actually the F2 car which is pig to drive for the ladies. Unlike F1, there’s no power steering in F2 and it’s very draining on the arms. It’s a much bigger and heavier car than the F3.
F1 does have higher g-forces in cornering and braking, which necessitates a lot of training of the neck. Longer races too, F2 feature races are one hour.
Given that almost all new F1 drivers will drive F2 first, perhaps making the F2 car easier for ladies to drive would be a good starting point.
Miss Calderon spent a couple of years going nowhere with F2, and is now running well in WEC and Indycar.
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