Jamie Chadwick - First competitive female driver in F1?
Discussion
Sandpit Steve said:
Miss Calderon spent a couple of years going nowhere with F2, and is now running well in WEC and Indycar.
I'm not sure she is "running well" in Indycar: this year she's had a 24th (last car running at the end), a 16th (out of 19 finishers, one of whom crashed on the penultimate lap) and a 26th (last). jsf said:
Derek Smith said:
I wonder if there will be pressure put on the FIA to change the regs to make F1 more friendly to women drivers. Limiting G for instance. Are the cars physically difficult to drive, if so, ensure they are useable by elite female athletes.
I've spoken to a few female WEC-type drivers and the consensus was that they believed they are/could be the equal of male drivers in their sport. This despite the demands of driving a Le Mans ES car for an hour or so, then repeat.
The question is, why are F1 cars so demanding physically to drive? It should be about skills and racecraft they might suggest.
There is zero reason why a woman cant handle F1 car loads, just look a the size of some of the F1 drivers, they are tiny.I've spoken to a few female WEC-type drivers and the consensus was that they believed they are/could be the equal of male drivers in their sport. This despite the demands of driving a Le Mans ES car for an hour or so, then repeat.
The question is, why are F1 cars so demanding physically to drive? It should be about skills and racecraft they might suggest.
carl_w said:
Sandpit Steve said:
Miss Calderon spent a couple of years going nowhere with F2, and is now running well in WEC and Indycar.
I'm not sure she is "running well" in Indycar: this year she's had a 24th (last car running at the end), a 16th (out of 19 finishers, one of whom crashed on the penultimate lap) and a 26th (last). I would think Chadwick could occasionally get an IndyCar into a top 10 position.
Not sure what to make of W series now. What has come out of it? The prize money is arguably isn't enough and a lot of the drivers aren't even international level drivers and for some the cars themselves represents a step down.
Better off creating a scholarship and support a top female karter progressing in single seaters.
Better off creating a scholarship and support a top female karter progressing in single seaters.
So the first two W Series races won by Jamie Chadwick. Has to say something about her, probably her racecraft is good and she has speed.
If she wins the Championship again then surely some international company will get behind her with sponsorship? There are a lot of companies or individuals who want to be big in motor sports and they’d get the exposure with her if they come up with the money.
Not Rich Energy though.
If she wins the Championship again then surely some international company will get behind her with sponsorship? There are a lot of companies or individuals who want to be big in motor sports and they’d get the exposure with her if they come up with the money.
Not Rich Energy though.
Tazar said:
So the first two W Series races won by Jamie Chadwick. Has to say something about her, probably her racecraft is good and she has speed.
If she wins the Championship again then surely some international company will get behind her with sponsorship? There are a lot of companies or individuals who want to be big in motor sports and they’d get the exposure with her if they come up with the money.
Not Rich Energy though.
I think they would be worried that the exposure would soon be of the embarrassing kind when she wasn't competitive. She has skill for sure, likely a good future in GT cars if she wants it, but F1? Unlikely. If she wins the Championship again then surely some international company will get behind her with sponsorship? There are a lot of companies or individuals who want to be big in motor sports and they’d get the exposure with her if they come up with the money.
Not Rich Energy though.
I don't think her competition in W series is particularly stiff, and her record in other series isn't overly impressive.
All said, merely being there and racing well in that particular series can't do harm for women in motorsport. I hope it inspires many a young girl to start racing and I look forward to seeing female drivers doing well at the top level of motorsport in the future.
I know a bit about WS and Jamie C from a neighbour’s son, who is a race engineer and has worked with them both.
He speaks very highly of her, says she’s excellent technically, spends a lot of time with the engineers, has a good manner with everyone, does a lot with the media, and has been very successful in a wide cross section of racing.
But he isn’t convinced about F1 due to the physical demands.
Funding aside, he reckoned that the aero on fia F3 and F2 cars makes them hard work, even for some male drivers, as they don’t have PAS, and these series are necessary stepping stones to F1.
The F1 car is apparently easier to drive as it does have PAS, although of course the intensity and race durations are much longer.
He speaks very highly of her, says she’s excellent technically, spends a lot of time with the engineers, has a good manner with everyone, does a lot with the media, and has been very successful in a wide cross section of racing.
But he isn’t convinced about F1 due to the physical demands.
Funding aside, he reckoned that the aero on fia F3 and F2 cars makes them hard work, even for some male drivers, as they don’t have PAS, and these series are necessary stepping stones to F1.
The F1 car is apparently easier to drive as it does have PAS, although of course the intensity and race durations are much longer.
Edited by Koln-RS on Sunday 8th May 23:31
I've interviewed JC and she is a very bright, personable and professional driver. I wonder why we can't just wish her well and let her make her way wherever her abilities , opportunities and luck take her? . I find the constant rhetoric about F1 deeply tedious, and not only about her . F1 is treated as if it were the only show in town , completely ignoring myriad other series in the sport. Every kid karter - Jamie included - tends to have F1 ambition despite the absurdly tiny chances of getting there - the F1 grid is ten car smaller than it should be , bed blocker drivers like Raikkonen hung around for years and the money involved is grotesque.
As for women drivers generally, opportunities have been more limited than for men , women have often been treated as ornamentation in the sport , and little else , some women have been mighty (eg Mouton, Moss-Carlsson , Muldowney , Wilson , Aitken Walker and Petre ) and many have been also rans - just like their male counterparts . We don't know if a woman will go on to F1 success - it will be fun finding out .
As for women drivers generally, opportunities have been more limited than for men , women have often been treated as ornamentation in the sport , and little else , some women have been mighty (eg Mouton, Moss-Carlsson , Muldowney , Wilson , Aitken Walker and Petre ) and many have been also rans - just like their male counterparts . We don't know if a woman will go on to F1 success - it will be fun finding out .
I agree F1 is an ambition that often is unreasonable. Jamie did have some success in sports cars, Aston if I remember correctly. Many male drivers have formed solid careers in sports and saloon cars and surely the various sports and saloon car categories, National and international, should be the target for ambitious drivers beyond the age of 24 or so.
Who could complain of being the female equivalent of Derek Bell or Jason Plato ? If single seaters is the target then the USA has to be your new home where ambitious females do get top Championship drives.
Who could complain of being the female equivalent of Derek Bell or Jason Plato ? If single seaters is the target then the USA has to be your new home where ambitious females do get top Championship drives.
entropy said:
Not sure what to make of W series now. What has come out of it?
Same here, there are no barriers to becoming a female racing driver, if anything teams and sponsors would be falling over themselves to sign a female racing driver. The way to make it into F1 is to do well in series such as F2 and F3, the same path that every other driver who has made it to F1 has taken.The inconvenient truth is none of these female drivers have done well in either of these series and hence haven't got enough points to get a super licence. They didn't have enough talent and/or money to make it in F2 and F3, the same as hundreds of other drivers.
It has absolutely zero to do with being female and everything to do with just not being good enough. This is the ultimate issue, creating a female only racing series is not helping the problem, it is merely highlighting what the issue is.
You only have to go onto Wikipedia and look at the racing results of any female driver who gets mentioned in the same breath as F1 to see that they have no hope of getting a drive.
coppice said:
I've interviewed JC and she is a very bright, personable and professional driver. I wonder why we can't just wish her well and let her make her way wherever her abilities , opportunities and luck take her? . I find the constant rhetoric about F1 deeply tedious, and not only about her . F1 is treated as if it were the only show in town , completely ignoring myriad other series in the sport. Every kid karter - Jamie included - tends to have F1 ambition despite the absurdly tiny chances of getting there - the F1 grid is ten car smaller than it should be , bed blocker drivers like Raikkonen hung around for years and the money involved is grotesque.
As for women drivers generally, opportunities have been more limited than for men , women have often been treated as ornamentation in the sport , and little else , some women have been mighty (eg Mouton, Moss-Carlsson , Muldowney , Wilson , Aitken Walker and Petre ) and many have been also rans - just like their male counterparts . We don't know if a woman will go on to F1 success - it will be fun finding out .
A really great informed post free from the misogynistic rhetoric of many here.As for women drivers generally, opportunities have been more limited than for men , women have often been treated as ornamentation in the sport , and little else , some women have been mighty (eg Mouton, Moss-Carlsson , Muldowney , Wilson , Aitken Walker and Petre ) and many have been also rans - just like their male counterparts . We don't know if a woman will go on to F1 success - it will be fun finding out .
I know Jamie well enough to stop and have a chat with her as we both raced in British GT back in 2015. Honestly many male drivers could learn a thing or two about their approach to motorsport from her attitude and approach to the sport. I think most here are also missing the obvious. If she wins this year again, she'll have made £1.5million. Which one of us would turn that down to race at a pretty high level of exposure? So the reason for staying in W Series is pretty clear in my mind given her motivation. She's still young, she's making a name for herself and she's earning decent money and doing sensible things with it. She almost certainly has a plan to move on, and I doubt she hinges it all on F1...
jsf said:
That money is supposed to be used to move up the ranks, not pocket as a salary.
There's nothing in the rules the requires you to do that, and she made a wise decision a few years ago to not pay for drives directly as it ends up pigeon holing you as a pay driver. Furthermore, £500,000 will barley get you a quarter of a season in something like FIA F3, let alone F2. It it might just about get you a season in the World Endurance Championship if you find a friendly team....Well, it does appear that a hack from the Telegraph has been reading this thread…
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-1/2022/05/09/l...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-1/2022/05/09/l...
freedman said:
Sandpit Steve said:
Miss Calderon spent a couple of years going nowhere with F2, and is now running well in WEC and Indycar.
Who pays for these years and years of racing with zero results?
"Calderón was employed by the Sauber Formula One team (later Alfa Romeo Racing) as a development and test driver from 2018 to 2020."
Seriously?
Edited by anonymous-user on Monday 9th May 12:41
Sandpit Steve said:
Well, it does appear that a hack from the Telegraph has been reading this thread…
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-1/2022/05/09/l...
Opening comment on that article, under the photo, is an observation that JC is "by far W Series' most marketable driver".https://www.telegraph.co.uk/formula-1/2022/05/09/l...
That says all that needs to be said really about the lens through which the situation is being observed. Why does a female driver need to be marketable? Couldn't they just be competitive and consistent, with whatever elevated celebrity being a consequence of that?
I think you could make a compelling argument that F1 is handling this thorny issue perfectly well. If you think about it, a female driver in F1 who could compete effectively would - cynicism aside - be a major marketing coup. The fact it hasn't happened in spite of this gives as clear an indication as any, I think, that the current crop of women simply aren't good enough.
I tend to agree with Horner in so much that it is probably a question of time rather than any perceived glass ceiling (pay drivers taking up valuable seats notwithstanding).
The thing is here, if you REALLY know your motorsport, you will know that F1 is only the pinnacle in a few areas. Speed yes, earnings, standing. so the scope for FW end results needs widening. it is too much about single seaters. Why not include some LMP3 races or a few rallies or BTCC events, expand it a bit.
But real fans understand that a guy going from 12th to 1st in one lap in a BOP based formula at the Nordschliefe, is just as impressive as anything Hamilton or Max has done, a guy doing fastest lap at Le Mans at 3am in the middle of 4 stints is just as impressive, a guy beating another guy in a WRC stage by 10 seconds is almost superhuman, a guy finishing a Dakar stage on a motorbike with his throttle grip hanging off, then finding out he rode like that for 70 miles.
If you go searching, there is vast and differen talent out there, and I am convinced ladies like Jamie will realise that very quickly. The goal is always F1 and you can see that in all of them, but that is case with every guy racing GP2,3 F3 etc etc. Then they will either give up or filter across, most top level GT and P drivers were very good single seater guys, some across very quickly some take years.
And would you rather be remembered for winning Le Mans, or the 24h of Nordschleife, or Daytona, or Bathurst 12h or Sebring, or being an also ran in junior single seaters. it needs to be pushed more to these girls in FW, I would rather see them in a GT3 Aston in GTWC or WEC or a P2 car like is done already, I think the concentration on F1 and single seaters is unhealthy for them and them and is a failing of FW.
But real fans understand that a guy going from 12th to 1st in one lap in a BOP based formula at the Nordschliefe, is just as impressive as anything Hamilton or Max has done, a guy doing fastest lap at Le Mans at 3am in the middle of 4 stints is just as impressive, a guy beating another guy in a WRC stage by 10 seconds is almost superhuman, a guy finishing a Dakar stage on a motorbike with his throttle grip hanging off, then finding out he rode like that for 70 miles.
If you go searching, there is vast and differen talent out there, and I am convinced ladies like Jamie will realise that very quickly. The goal is always F1 and you can see that in all of them, but that is case with every guy racing GP2,3 F3 etc etc. Then they will either give up or filter across, most top level GT and P drivers were very good single seater guys, some across very quickly some take years.
And would you rather be remembered for winning Le Mans, or the 24h of Nordschleife, or Daytona, or Bathurst 12h or Sebring, or being an also ran in junior single seaters. it needs to be pushed more to these girls in FW, I would rather see them in a GT3 Aston in GTWC or WEC or a P2 car like is done already, I think the concentration on F1 and single seaters is unhealthy for them and them and is a failing of FW.
LukeBrown66 said:
The thing is here, if you REALLY know your motorsport, you will know that F1 is only the pinnacle in a few areas. Speed yes, earnings, standing. so the scope for FW end results needs widening. it is too much about single seaters. Why not include some LMP3 races or a few rallies or BTCC events, expand it a bit.
Jade Edwards races in BTCCAlice Powell did a one off IMSA race at Lime Rock IIRC in a GTD/GT3 car
Visser races in LMP2
Whether it was from the back of W Series, hard to say.
On the other hand there's initiatives like Iron Dames team racing GTs and Beth Parertta's team running Tatiana Calderon
The lack of seats being available in F1 doesn't really help, especially when you end up with the likes of Latifi or Mazepin filling seats that arguably should be available for more deserving talents.
You've got a full grid of F2 fighting every year to get an F1 seat, and the only one who goes through for this season was 3rd in the championship last year.
There's the argument that being a marketable driver shouldn't come into it (which I can agree with), but again, there was a lot of talk over Zhou's signing helping to raise F1 interest in China. Just being faster than everyone already isn't enough anyway.
I think there is potentially some overlap about the discussion over additional teams entering, increasing the grid to 22/24 cars should in theory give the drivers in lower formulas slightly better odds of landing a seat.
You've got a full grid of F2 fighting every year to get an F1 seat, and the only one who goes through for this season was 3rd in the championship last year.
There's the argument that being a marketable driver shouldn't come into it (which I can agree with), but again, there was a lot of talk over Zhou's signing helping to raise F1 interest in China. Just being faster than everyone already isn't enough anyway.
I think there is potentially some overlap about the discussion over additional teams entering, increasing the grid to 22/24 cars should in theory give the drivers in lower formulas slightly better odds of landing a seat.
I imagine an FE seat (amongst other things) was on the table for Jamie, fair play to her for holding out to see if she can secure funding for an F3/2 drive. She seems very focused on single seaters and the road to F1, having given up Extreme E too.
Contrast that with Jess Hawkins who is doing W Series alongside TCR UK and seemingly happy to give anything a shot.
Neither is right or wrong, but I admire Jamie's effort, if she doesn't make it it won't have been for lack of trying. If they both end up in WEC eventually or if Jamie goes to FE I don't think that'll be a bad outcome for W Series.
Contrast that with Jess Hawkins who is doing W Series alongside TCR UK and seemingly happy to give anything a shot.
Neither is right or wrong, but I admire Jamie's effort, if she doesn't make it it won't have been for lack of trying. If they both end up in WEC eventually or if Jamie goes to FE I don't think that'll be a bad outcome for W Series.
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