Jamie Chadwick - First competitive female driver in F1?
Discussion
Formula W car specs and speed - 270bhp - 26 seconds slower than a F1 car around the RedBull Ring. I think it would be a huge step up from F W to F1.
Formula 3 car - 380bhp, 167mph
Formula 1 car - 210mph (although V Bottas achieved 236mph at mexico in 2016)
Comparisons between F1 and F2
https://flowracers.com/blog/f1-vs-f2-racing/
Formula 3 car - 380bhp, 167mph
Formula 1 car - 210mph (although V Bottas achieved 236mph at mexico in 2016)
Comparisons between F1 and F2
https://flowracers.com/blog/f1-vs-f2-racing/
jsf said:
She should have already moved on, a third year in FW is a failure for the concept.
The Sky coverage showed an interview with the team principal, Caitlin Jenner (?) where she says really liked the W Series and wanted to get involved, but only if she could have Chadwick as her no.1 driver, which took some time and persuading.But the spin off benefit was she would help Chadwick further her career.
So, that kind of explains it.
Koln-RS said:
jsf said:
She should have already moved on, a third year in FW is a failure for the concept.
The Sky coverage showed an interview with the team principal, Caitlin Jenner (?) where she says really liked the W Series and wanted to get involved, but only if she could have Chadwick as her no.1 driver, which took some time and persuading.But the spin off benefit was she would help Chadwick further her career.
So, that kind of explains it.
jsf said:
She should have already moved on, a third year in FW is a failure for the concept.
I agree, not really sure what the concept actually is. If you want to be in F1 you have to have proven yourself in F3 and F2 and have the cash or a massive sponsor. It doesn't matter what you have between your legs and winning a women's series isn't going to spring board you past F2. Maybe she should try and get into some racing in murica instead? Like indycar or something.
It feels like she's doing that thing when you first start playing Gran Turismo and you find the easiest race with the most prize money, and do it over and over again just to build up enough credits to buy a better car to move on with the game, even though it's not satisfying in itself.
Yazza54 said:
jsf said:
She should have already moved on, a third year in FW is a failure for the concept.
I agree, not really sure what the concept actually is. If you want to be in F1 you have to have proven yourself in F3 and F2 and have the cash or a massive sponsor. It doesn't matter what you have between your legs and winning a women's series isn't going to spring board you past F2. Maybe she should try and get into some racing in murica instead? Like indycar or something.
If women are to have their own series it should be tiered so they can progress and end up battling others that have already won FW, in an 'FW masters' or whatever series of races. The winners of that might then be just about good enough to have a chance in mixed sex F3.
Winning FW as it is means little other than perhaps an unwarranted celebration of one's abilities in terms of taking an F1 journey seriously.
I just don't see how taking women out of a mixed sex environment does anything other than make it harder to jump back in to that environment. I understand it's designed to attract more young females to Motorsport and broaden the talent pool... But those young girls watching are going to wonder why their current role models in the series never progress surely..!?
If this is to continue my ideal would be a female only series to progress to that ran close to F2 cars. They win that and they should then find stepping back to F3 with the boys a lot easier. A little like it's easy to be a star on a pub pool table after a few months playing on a full sized snooker table - you need to aim higher to be great at a realistic level sometimes.
Yazza54 said:
Maybe she should try and get into some racing in murica instead? Like indycar or something.
She would most likely have to bring/attract sponsors or the team owner takes a real shining to you and help bring in sponsors. I don't think she's on the level of Romain Grosjean, Scott McLaughlin or Jimmie Johnson to jump into a car and expect to be paid a straight up salary. This is why W Series should allow sponsors brought in by the drivers.TheDeuce said:
My view is that you can't just take women out of the traditional roadmap to F1 with their own series and then expect them to be able to jump back in to a mixed sex series.
It's not meant to interfere with the traditional ladder but to aid progression. With the promotion and hype its got it is very easy to think of the former. It's an excuse to showcase women drivers, not to replace F3 or whatever.entropy said:
TheDeuce said:
My view is that you can't just take women out of the traditional roadmap to F1 with their own series and then expect them to be able to jump back in to a mixed sex series.
It's not meant to interfere with the traditional ladder but to aid progression. With the promotion and hype its got it is very easy to think of the former. It's an excuse to showcase women drivers, not to replace F3 or whatever.If they raced against the other women in a higher level car that would probably give them a leg up if they did then want to switch back to the traditional path and enter F3 then hopefully F2.
TheDeuce said:
I know what it's meant to be and to do. But it does interfere as the women winning FW are not good enough to be strong in F3, because their recent victory was to beat drivers in a lesser series with statistically a lesser calibre of competitor than F3.
If they raced against the other women in a higher level car that would probably give them a leg up if they did then want to switch back to the traditional path and enter F3 then hopefully F2.
Find a different category/discipline to compete in or find a different career. Happens to lots of drivers who don't make the grade or don't have enough funds to climb the single seater ladder. If they raced against the other women in a higher level car that would probably give them a leg up if they did then want to switch back to the traditional path and enter F3 then hopefully F2.
It's going to take more than single sex championship if the goal is to get a woman to race in F1.
TheDeuce said:
If this is to continue my ideal would be a female only series to progress to that ran close to F2 cars. They win that and they should then find stepping back to F3 with the boys a lot easier. A little like it's easy to be a star on a pub pool table after a few months playing on a full sized snooker table - you need to aim higher to be great at a realistic level sometimes.
Presumably that's purely a cost thing. W Series has sponsors and investors but not funded teams or drivers, they'd hemorrhage money if they had faster, more complex cars, especially given they're spreading the races across the world too.I would advocate that FW has numerous categories, say LMP3, R2 or R5 rally BTCC, and praps a GT4 team. That can then push any of these talented girls into a series they might not have looked at.
yes we all know F1 is the goal, but also F|W have to be realistic, I feel they are aimless and pushing too high.
yes we all know F1 is the goal, but also F|W have to be realistic, I feel they are aimless and pushing too high.
LukeBrown66 said:
I would advocate that FW has numerous categories, say LMP3, R2 or R5 rally BTCC, and praps a GT4 team. That can then push any of these talented girls into a series they might not have looked at.
yes we all know F1 is the goal, but also F|W have to be realistic, I feel they are aimless and pushing too high.
I'm fairly sure the sponsors (basically the only income FW has, nobody pays for a seat) are there because of the exposure of being on the F1 circus. It's being run at a loss at the moment but has some wealthy investors who believe in the concept, they hope to start turning a profit soon through increasing sponsorship deals (they do have some pretty big names on board now).yes we all know F1 is the goal, but also F|W have to be realistic, I feel they are aimless and pushing too high.
Nobody is going to fund to that degree in WEC, BTCC, WRC etc as they don't receive even 5% of the exposure that F1 gets and they'd never realistically see any sort of return on the investment.
Even FE, with big manufacturers, TV deals and city centre races struggle to make any sort of wider impact. I'd be fairly confident that FW dies a quick death if not for the F1 link.
Peacockantony said:
So what is your plan when the inevitable happens and she loses interest, because the passing fad becomes something else and that gets her attention instead? That's the problem with this type of coersive social manipulation, if you take advantage of the short attention span to manipulate them it to something, there will always be something else to take it's place.
You can't force interest in something, it may work for a short period but it just festers resentment long term that ultimately causes damage. You only have to look at the rebellious teen stage of life.
That's a bit cynical isn't it? In the example of my daughter, she has had a lifelong fascination with cars (pretty obsessed in fact) and a consistent level of aspiration to pursue a career in engineering (currently either as a car designer or designing robotics for production line assembly). Her decision to start karting is predominately because she cannot wait to be old enough to drive a car, but never had the confidence to actually start karting until she saw a few W series races and then had the privilege of speaking with a W series engineer at last years GW FOS. She's still very very green but enjoying the learning process of both driving and setting up a kart. She has zero aspirations to become a professional racing car driver, but for her the W series just gave her the reassurance both boys and girls can compete in motorsport. To answer your question; if after a year or two she decides karting is no longer for her we will sell the equipment and be thankful that we had the resources to give her the opportunity to pursue the interest (at that point in her life).You can't force interest in something, it may work for a short period but it just festers resentment long term that ultimately causes damage. You only have to look at the rebellious teen stage of life.
ch37 said:
LukeBrown66 said:
I would advocate that FW has numerous categories, say LMP3, R2 or R5 rally BTCC, and praps a GT4 team. That can then push any of these talented girls into a series they might not have looked at.
yes we all know F1 is the goal, but also F|W have to be realistic, I feel they are aimless and pushing too high.
I'm fairly sure the sponsors (basically the only income FW has, nobody pays for a seat) are there because of the exposure of being on the F1 circus. It's being run at a loss at the moment but has some wealthy investors who believe in the concept, they hope to start turning a profit soon through increasing sponsorship deals (they do have some pretty big names on board now).yes we all know F1 is the goal, but also F|W have to be realistic, I feel they are aimless and pushing too high.
Nobody is going to fund to that degree in WEC, BTCC, WRC etc as they don't receive even 5% of the exposure that F1 gets and they'd never realistically see any sort of return on the investment.
Even FE, with big manufacturers, TV deals and city centre races struggle to make any sort of wider impact. I'd be fairly confident that FW dies a quick death if not for the F1 link.
Back to square one then: what is the point of FW? It's to attract more young females to the sport but how will that help when they see their heroes side roaded professionally after winning FW?
Will FW still even exist in ten years time? I try and watch and support the idea but it's hard to see what it's actually achieving. I'm pretty sure the only drivers I have any interest in would have found their way into other series this season of FW didn't exist.
ch37 said:
Nobody is going to fund to that degree in WEC, BTCC, WRC etc as they don't receive even 5% of the exposure that F1 gets and they'd never realistically see any sort of return on the investment.
They wouldn't need to fund to that degree in many other categories such as BTCC and TCR as the costs are a fraction of what FW is. BTCC in particular is very good for brand exposure in terms of outlay. As for the exposure it all depends on the target market/countries. BTCC and Aussie Supercars are way, way above 5% of F1 in their main markets.I'd be interested to see stats on how much of the F1 audience actually watches the FW races. I expect it's less than the number of people who watch some of the other non-F1 series.
JoelH said:
ch37 said:
Nobody is going to fund to that degree in WEC, BTCC, WRC etc as they don't receive even 5% of the exposure that F1 gets and they'd never realistically see any sort of return on the investment.
They wouldn't need to fund to that degree in many other categories such as BTCC and TCR as the costs are a fraction of what FW is. BTCC in particular is very good for brand exposure in terms of outlay. As for the exposure it all depends on the target market/countries. BTCC and Aussie Supercars are way, way above 5% of F1 in their main markets.I'd be interested to see stats on how much of the F1 audience actually watches the FW races. I expect it's less than the number of people who watch some of the other non-F1 series.
I have no issue with increasing exposure and f=trying to create role models to follow, but the obsession with single seaters is wrong, they are and always have been the most expensive form of racing to get involved in.
I would much rather see a few teams run in multiple disciplines aswell as FW, and LMP3 is not cheap, but nothing like a season in GP3 or F3. A brand new R5 costs about 180 grand, a BTCC car could probably be bought for that price, that would expose top talent to tv audiences, it can also travel to new locations with endurance and rallying. The cost of being "allowed" to compete in GOP meetings would probably easily cover all this.
The focus on single seaters is not helping this initiative at all long term. And this comes from the people who run it, not from fans or likely the girls in it.
I would much rather see a few teams run in multiple disciplines aswell as FW, and LMP3 is not cheap, but nothing like a season in GP3 or F3. A brand new R5 costs about 180 grand, a BTCC car could probably be bought for that price, that would expose top talent to tv audiences, it can also travel to new locations with endurance and rallying. The cost of being "allowed" to compete in GOP meetings would probably easily cover all this.
The focus on single seaters is not helping this initiative at all long term. And this comes from the people who run it, not from fans or likely the girls in it.
Yazza54 said:
I've never watched a FW race. Don't see the point in it. I know it's supposed to be a woman's racing formula to gain females exposure but the reality is that they were never disallowed or alienated from mainstream Motorsport in the first place. If they were good enough and had the backing they would be welcome.
It's a vicious cycle, how do you know whether they are good enough if they don't get the sponsorship to fund the backing? How are they going to get the sponsorship unless the profile is raised?
So FW came about to raise the profile. If the backing comes and they get the training, maybe we will see one or two come good i.e. get to the level competitive with men.
leef44 said:
Yazza54 said:
I've never watched a FW race. Don't see the point in it. I know it's supposed to be a woman's racing formula to gain females exposure but the reality is that they were never disallowed or alienated from mainstream Motorsport in the first place. If they were good enough and had the backing they would be welcome.
It's a vicious cycle, how do you know whether they are good enough if they don't get the sponsorship to fund the backing? How are they going to get the sponsorship unless the profile is raised?
So FW came about to raise the profile. If the backing comes and they get the training, maybe we will see one or two come good i.e. get to the level competitive with men.
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