Jamie Chadwick - First competitive female driver in F1?

[TheDeuce]

leef44 said:

Milkyway said:

Sounds like Jamie will take her money & FIA licence points.
It will be interesting to see how Abbi Pulling does in a full season in 2022.
She was very impressive @ COTA... & a youngster too.
Alice will return, but....Mmmmmm

Watching one of the previous F1 race buid up on C4 where Alice was one of the presenters, I noticed she talked about mentoring Abbi. Her tone was almost like saying she is really too old to be able to progress but she can use her talent to nurture others who have the potential.

Abbi really did impress in the W series in a similar way Max Verstappen did on his debut year in F1.

It's a chicken and egg situation. Women in motorsport do not have the skill compared to their male cohorts but that is not to say they don't have the talent. The difference being that the sponsorship focus has not been there for women to nurture that skill to bring it up to the same level of their male cohorts.

Take Abbi, if some organisation was to come along and provide the sort of support which Lewis got from Ron Dennis, she would have the resources to train up to the level of her male cohorts. Level that playing field and then we can compare.

How did she compare to Lewis in karts, before he had any money behind him?

[C70R]

Sandpit Steve said:

Milkyway said:

If there is a young girl with a Billionaire Daddy... she’ll do just fine.

Given how so many of today’s top drivers have family money behind them, it wouldn’t be surprising if the next woman in F1 has family wealth or connections backing her.

Do you mean like Jamie Chadwick's IoM tax-exiled, property developing father?

The same one who managed to afford to pay for both of his kids to do Ginetta Juniors? That one?

I respect the hell out of Jamie as a driver, but let's not pretend that she's had it tough up to now.

[Bo_apex]

TheDeuce said:

How did she compare to Lewis in karts, before he had any money behind him?

Lewis had everything he needed to race karts. A self-sacrificing and pushy father

[thegreenhell]

TheDeuce said:

How did she compare to Lewis in karts, before he had any money behind him?

She is a two-time (2017, 2018) British champion in S1 Junior TKM, the same championship that Jenson Button won in 1992.

[Bo_apex]

C70R said:

Do you mean like Jamie Chadwick's IoM tax-exiled, property developing father?

.

Common misconception, residents pay income tax and national insurance. It's not Monaco

[thegreenhell]

Bo_apex said:

C70R said:

Do you mean like Jamie Chadwick's IoM tax-exiled, property developing father?

.

Common misconception, residents pay income tax and national insurance. It's not Monaco

Even Monaco residents have to pay national insurance. It's a common misconception.

[C70R]

Bo_apex said:

C70R said:

Do you mean like Jamie Chadwick's IoM tax-exiled, property developing father?

.

Common misconception, residents pay income tax and national insurance. It's not Monaco

Indeed.

But tell me about IoM corporation tax.

[Bo_apex]

C70R said:

Bo_apex said:

C70R said:

Do you mean like Jamie Chadwick's IoM tax-exiled, property developing father?

.

Common misconception, residents pay income tax and national insurance. It's not Monaco

Indeed.

But tell me about IoM corporation tax.

Depends on the business sector. PWC will guide you.

Back on topic, I don't think Chadwick is the next Hamilton.

[C70R]

Bo_apex said:

C70R said:

Bo_apex said:

C70R said:

Do you mean like Jamie Chadwick's IoM tax-exiled, property developing father?

.

Common misconception, residents pay income tax and national insurance. It's not Monaco

Indeed.

But tell me about IoM corporation tax.

Depends on the business sector. PWC will guide you.

Back on topic, I don't think Chadwick is the next Hamilton.

Erm, this is the topic. We were talking about financial backing for F1 drivers, and the point was that she's not short.

[TheDeuce]

C70R said:

Bo_apex said:

C70R said:

Bo_apex said:

C70R said:

Do you mean like Jamie Chadwick's IoM tax-exiled, property developing father?

.

Common misconception, residents pay income tax and national insurance. It's not Monaco

Indeed.

But tell me about IoM corporation tax.

Depends on the business sector. PWC will guide you.

Back on topic, I don't think Chadwick is the next Hamilton.

Erm, this is the topic. We were talking about financial backing for F1 drivers, and the point was that she's not short.

If the point is that she's not short of £££... Then why does it matter where the money comes from and the tax arrangement?

[C70R]

TheDeuce said:

C70R said:

Bo_apex said:

C70R said:

Bo_apex said:

C70R said:

Do you mean like Jamie Chadwick's IoM tax-exiled, property developing father?

.

Common misconception, residents pay income tax and national insurance. It's not Monaco

Indeed.

But tell me about IoM corporation tax.

Depends on the business sector. PWC will guide you.

Back on topic, I don't think Chadwick is the next Hamilton.

Erm, this is the topic. We were talking about financial backing for F1 drivers, and the point was that she's not short.

If the point is that she's not short of £££... Then why does it matter where the money comes from and the tax arrangement?

It doesn't. I was merely offering additional information that someone might find interesting.

I don't give a hoot where people live or how they pay tax.

[RacerMike]

TheDeuce said:

C70R said:

Bo_apex said:

C70R said:

Bo_apex said:

C70R said:

Do you mean like Jamie Chadwick's IoM tax-exiled, property developing father?

.

Common misconception, residents pay income tax and national insurance. It's not Monaco

Indeed.

But tell me about IoM corporation tax.

Depends on the business sector. PWC will guide you.

Back on topic, I don't think Chadwick is the next Hamilton.

Erm, this is the topic. We were talking about financial backing for F1 drivers, and the point was that she's not short.

If the point is that she's not short of £££... Then why does it matter where the money comes from and the tax arrangement?

None of her or her family's money goes into racing anymore. She made a decision a few years ago, but then up to that point she had the money to go racing, so arguably she got the leg up she needed through family money. However, all of the funding for any racing she does now is from partners or sponsors. There's a very different approach to people who pay for their drives from their own pockets, and Jamie is very aware of that.

[C70R]

RacerMike said:

TheDeuce said:

C70R said:

Bo_apex said:

C70R said:

Bo_apex said:

C70R said:

Do you mean like Jamie Chadwick's IoM tax-exiled, property developing father?

.

Common misconception, residents pay income tax and national insurance. It's not Monaco

Indeed.

But tell me about IoM corporation tax.

Depends on the business sector. PWC will guide you.

Back on topic, I don't think Chadwick is the next Hamilton.

Erm, this is the topic. We were talking about financial backing for F1 drivers, and the point was that she's not short.

If the point is that she's not short of £££... Then why does it matter where the money comes from and the tax arrangement?

None of her or her family's money goes into racing anymore. She made a decision a few years ago, but then up to that point she had the money to go racing, so arguably she got the leg up she needed through family money. However, all of the funding for any racing she does now is from partners or sponsors. There's a very different approach to people who pay for their drives from their own pockets, and Jamie is very aware of that.

Exactly.

The point remains that, without that funding in her early career, her likelihood of being the W Series champion or being part of Williams would have been significantly lower.

[df76]

TheDeuce said:

df76 said:

TheDeuce said:

Peacockantony said:

TheDeuce said:

Timing? If she's competitive enough and amasses the require SL points, an F1 team will take her - irrespective of age. A competitive female driver in F1 would be a massive PR boost and attract previously unreachable audiences and sponsors to the sport.

No ones going to worry she's a couple years older than ideal when that level of commercial value is linked to her.

Doubtful, even the PR for having a female driver wouldn't be enough to offset the negativity that would result from giving such an unsuitable driver an opportunity and it having poor results that were to be expected from an unprepared driver being dropped in the deep end. You would see a competetive midfield car end up at the back every race because the driver wouldn't be good enough.

The teams aren't dumb, they get the PR from having Calderon, Chadwick, Hawkins etc in made-for-PR roles so they can wheel them out for photo ops but in reality they will still pick the far more capable male racing drivers that will get better results to compete for them.

This is where we differ then. I think they would get a net PR gain and that whilst it would be fantastic if the first (recent) female F1 driver was truly competitive, the fact of the matter is that simply isn't on the cards. There are no such female drivers identified as having that sort of potential anywhere close to F1 in terms of SL points.

You may be right... it might backfire. I personally think they would spin it well enough and that the masses would just love a female driver and that it would attract new sponsors and a new demographic of fans and viewers, regardless of performance.

If you don't agree with my perspective on that, then I fully understand why you think Jamie will never and should never be slightly cynically given the leg up in to F1.

She was supposed to do FIA F3 this season (2021), however, her pace in the Formula Regional series last autumn killed that chance off. Was clear that she wouldn't be competitive so made no sense for her to spend the cash, and the top teams wouldn't have taken her in any case. Hope she can step up in 2022, but any F1 opportunity is a long way off.

It's difficult to gauge how competitive W Series actually is.. but Abbi Pulling was nowhere in British F4 this season (her second year at that level) before bailing out mid season. She then rocks up in Austin and sticks the car on pole.

I actually didn't know she was penned for F3 this season before her regional series struggles - thanks for that.

I would say that this season in FW she was stronger than 2019, so still evolution and growth, She also wasn't terrible in the regional series back then, she was average.. So perhaps she could do better now if she attempted that again, or.. even F3..

We should all avoid writing her off at least until she's stopped showing signs of improving as a driver.

Definitely an interesting moment in her career. I don't think she could do another W Series season (if she has any real single seater ambitions). But we really don't know how competitive her rivals has been over this year. Given what Abbi Pulling did at the weekend, it suggests that it's not the strongest field. Moving to FIA F3 and getting blown away would be awkward, but I hope she can step up and make it happen. W Series can't just become a dumping ground for ladies that haven't quite cut it and then have run out of budget.

[C70R]

df76 said:

TheDeuce said:

df76 said:

TheDeuce said:

Peacockantony said:

TheDeuce said:

Timing? If she's competitive enough and amasses the require SL points, an F1 team will take her - irrespective of age. A competitive female driver in F1 would be a massive PR boost and attract previously unreachable audiences and sponsors to the sport.

No ones going to worry she's a couple years older than ideal when that level of commercial value is linked to her.

Doubtful, even the PR for having a female driver wouldn't be enough to offset the negativity that would result from giving such an unsuitable driver an opportunity and it having poor results that were to be expected from an unprepared driver being dropped in the deep end. You would see a competetive midfield car end up at the back every race because the driver wouldn't be good enough.

The teams aren't dumb, they get the PR from having Calderon, Chadwick, Hawkins etc in made-for-PR roles so they can wheel them out for photo ops but in reality they will still pick the far more capable male racing drivers that will get better results to compete for them.

This is where we differ then. I think they would get a net PR gain and that whilst it would be fantastic if the first (recent) female F1 driver was truly competitive, the fact of the matter is that simply isn't on the cards. There are no such female drivers identified as having that sort of potential anywhere close to F1 in terms of SL points.

You may be right... it might backfire. I personally think they would spin it well enough and that the masses would just love a female driver and that it would attract new sponsors and a new demographic of fans and viewers, regardless of performance.

If you don't agree with my perspective on that, then I fully understand why you think Jamie will never and should never be slightly cynically given the leg up in to F1.

She was supposed to do FIA F3 this season (2021), however, her pace in the Formula Regional series last autumn killed that chance off. Was clear that she wouldn't be competitive so made no sense for her to spend the cash, and the top teams wouldn't have taken her in any case. Hope she can step up in 2022, but any F1 opportunity is a long way off.

It's difficult to gauge how competitive W Series actually is.. but Abbi Pulling was nowhere in British F4 this season (her second year at that level) before bailing out mid season. She then rocks up in Austin and sticks the car on pole.

I actually didn't know she was penned for F3 this season before her regional series struggles - thanks for that.

I would say that this season in FW she was stronger than 2019, so still evolution and growth, She also wasn't terrible in the regional series back then, she was average.. So perhaps she could do better now if she attempted that again, or.. even F3..

We should all avoid writing her off at least until she's stopped showing signs of improving as a driver.

Definitely an interesting moment in her career. I don't think she could do another W Series season (if she has any real single seater ambitions). But we really don't know how competitive her rivals has been over this year. Given what Abbi Pulling did at the weekend, it suggests that it's not the strongest field. Moving to FIA F3 and getting blown away would be awkward, but I hope she can step up and make it happen. W Series can't just become a dumping ground for ladies that haven't quite cut it and then have run out of budget.

As mentioned above, I suspect she's going to head back to GT racing after this season.

[Milkyway]

So... collect 25 SL points & they can participate in free practices.
Plus a possible extra 10 points from that.
Still leaves them 5pts short of a full a SL.
It’s also time limited... It isn’t easy.
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.drivers...

Edited by Milkyway on Tuesday 26th October 15:25

[leef44]

df76 said:

Definitely an interesting moment in her career. I don't think she could do another W Series season (if she has any real single seater ambitions). But we really don't know how competitive her rivals has been over this year. Given what Abbi Pulling did at the weekend, it suggests that it's not the strongest field. Moving to FIA F3 and getting blown away would be awkward, but I hope she can step up and make it happen. W Series can't just become a dumping ground for ladies that haven't quite cut it and then have run out of budget.

The point of the W series is to give them that first step to open doors. She has achieved that so she should make something of it.

[Milkyway]

leef44 said:

df76 said:

Definitely an interesting moment in her career. I don't think she could do another W Series season (if she has any real single seater ambitions). But we really don't know how competitive her rivals has been over this year. Given what Abbi Pulling did at the weekend, it suggests that it's not the strongest field. Moving to FIA F3 and getting blown away would be awkward, but I hope she can step up and make it happen. W Series can't just become a dumping ground for ladies that haven't quite cut it and then have run out of budget.

The point of the W series is to give them that first step to open doors. She has achieved that so she should make something of it.

So.. Season 1: Win = +15pts
Season 2: Win again = 30 Total ( 2nd = +12)
Combine with Free practices sessions: +10 (max)
Get Superlicence.
( Risky... But achievable)

Edited by Milkyway on Tuesday 26th October 15:42

[thegreenhell]

Milkyway said:

So... collect 25 SL points & they can participate in free practices.
Plus a possible extra 10 points from that.
Still leaves them 5pts short of a full a SL.
It’s also time limited... It isn’t easy.
https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.drivers...

She'd need to do ten full FP1 sessions (minimum 100km in each, without incidents) to get ten extra points, but there are plenty of ways she should be able to find the other five points from somewhere.

Also worth mentioning that she loses ten points at the end of next year when her F3 Asia points expire, so she would need to get to 40 before then or else she needs to find those ten again from somewhere else.

[antspants]

Personally I think a much more realistic expectation is to see in 5, 7, 10 years time whether the introduction of the W series and it's F1 exposure has increased the number of girls entering motorsport at a young grassroots level, and has that led to those women having access to increased levels of support, training, sponsorship etc. Surely the measure of its (and the drivers) success or failure, shouldn't just be the short term view of can this years W series winner get an F1 drive, but actually it's today's winners paving the way for the rest?