What separates the excellent from the elite?
Discussion
PhilAsia said:
I have read that Prost emphasised setting up the car for the race. Senna more towards qualy. However I wasn't there so I do not know if this is 100% or not...
The best example of this is Mexico 1990 when Prost started 13th and won. He always worked on race setup which is why his pole stats were not as high.cgt2 said:
PhilAsia said:
I have read that Prost emphasised setting up the car for the race. Senna more towards qualy. However I wasn't there so I do not know if this is 100% or not...
The best example of this is Mexico 1990 when Prost started 13th and won. He always worked on race setup which is why his pole stats were not as high.I totally agree was Prost was a great driver, but I think simply not as quick as Senna.
Muzzer79 said:
Piginapoke said:
I totally agree was Prost was a great driver, but I think simply not as quick as Senna.
That could be debated forever and a dayBut what I think is clear is that your general statement "Senna destroyed Prost in their two years together" patently isn't correct.
Piginapoke said:
Muzzer79 said:
Piginapoke said:
I totally agree was Prost was a great driver, but I think simply not as quick as Senna.
That could be debated forever and a dayBut what I think is clear is that your general statement "Senna destroyed Prost in their two years together" patently isn't correct.
M5-911 said:
cgt2 said:
I was lucky enough to be at Donington in 1993. If that wasn't greatness I don't know what else could define the term.
Not really when you know that he was the only front runner car on rain set up. Schermerhorn said:
DodgyGeezer said:
Schermerhorn said:
Really?
You really reckon a Chubby Chubster like Fangio could even fit in a modern F1 car let alone keep up with someone like Senna, Prost, Schumacher and the like?
you could equally argue can you imagine a modern driver having to drive the crude and unsafe cars of then?You really reckon a Chubby Chubster like Fangio could even fit in a modern F1 car let alone keep up with someone like Senna, Prost, Schumacher and the like?
Edited by Schermerhorn on Tuesday 23 November 17:14
Either way to play the scenario, its inappropriate to compare generations
Hasn’t it got something to do with a portion of the brain... you’re either wired up that way... or not.
Personally... I would have loved to see Jensen Button in a Mercedes.
( Apparently, Schumacher was blessed)
https://gts-rs.co.uk/2017/11/28/scientists-found-k...
Personally... I would have loved to see Jensen Button in a Mercedes.
( Apparently, Schumacher was blessed)
https://gts-rs.co.uk/2017/11/28/scientists-found-k...
Edited by Milkyway on Thursday 25th November 13:58
'What separates the excellent from the elite' as per the OP .
Certainly in the last 20 odd years I would say -
Luck / opportunity / timing / team / car ........... and some talent
Never popular here where people seem to think that some drivers are born elite .
You have to have these tools to develop into an elite driver . 95% of all F1 drivers are 'excellent' but other outside influences give you the chance to develop 'elite' status .
Certainly in the last 20 odd years I would say -
Luck / opportunity / timing / team / car ........... and some talent
Never popular here where people seem to think that some drivers are born elite .
You have to have these tools to develop into an elite driver . 95% of all F1 drivers are 'excellent' but other outside influences give you the chance to develop 'elite' status .
paulw123 said:
Genius - Hamilton, Fangio, Clark etc
Flawed genius - Senna & Schumacher
I'd agree with that. I'd add Alonso to flawed genius as thr ability to get on with your team matters and he has alienated ferrari mclaren and Honda in his time possibly preventing him for better cars.Flawed genius - Senna & Schumacher
Vettel to me right car right time so not in the elite just good.
Simoncelli58 said:
'What separates the excellent from the elite' as per the OP .
Certainly in the last 20 odd years I would say -
Luck / opportunity / timing / team / car ........... and some talent
Never popular here where people seem to think that some drivers are born elite .
You have to have these tools to develop into an elite driver . 95% of all F1 drivers are 'excellent' but other outside influences give you the chance to develop 'elite' status .
I have never given it much thought but this is probably the truth. We all (mostly) accept that Lewis is the greatest of the current era and one of the all time greats but if he hadn’t left McLaren and joined Mercedes at the right time I doubt anyone would be giving him those accolades. It is also likely that Roseberg would be a multiple world champion and be touted as an elite driver on this thread. Certainly in the last 20 odd years I would say -
Luck / opportunity / timing / team / car ........... and some talent
Never popular here where people seem to think that some drivers are born elite .
You have to have these tools to develop into an elite driver . 95% of all F1 drivers are 'excellent' but other outside influences give you the chance to develop 'elite' status .
Piginapoke said:
Muzzer79 said:
Piginapoke said:
I totally agree was Prost was a great driver, but I think simply not as quick as Senna.
That could be debated forever and a dayBut what I think is clear is that your general statement "Senna destroyed Prost in their two years together" patently isn't correct.
sandman77 said:
I have never given it much thought but this is probably the truth. We all (mostly) accept that Lewis is the greatest of the current era and one of the all time greats but if he hadn’t left McLaren and joined Mercedes at the right time I doubt anyone would be giving him those accolades. It is also likely that Roseberg would be a multiple world champion and be touted as an elite driver on this thread.
Hmm.........think really hard about that statement, it takes more than just multiple championships before we are discussing `Elite` ,Vettel ,Piquet, Brabham & others not getting a lot of mentions here, plus I think Rosberg would have dropped the ball without a great team mate pushing him, Alonso & Vettel most likely would have taken the spoils. Rosberg had to win 1 WDC, the Germans expected it.sandman77 said:
I have never given it much thought but this is probably the truth. We all (mostly) accept that Lewis is the greatest of the current era and one of the all time greats but if he hadn’t left McLaren and joined Mercedes at the right time I doubt anyone would be giving him those accolades. It is also likely that Roseberg would be a multiple world champion and be touted as an elite driver on this thread.
I remember Brawn and Lauda both lobbied him intensely and eventually convinced him to make the move. He wasn't sure about it being the right move at the time. cgt2 said:
sandman77 said:
I have never given it much thought but this is probably the truth. We all (mostly) accept that Lewis is the greatest of the current era and one of the all time greats but if he hadn’t left McLaren and joined Mercedes at the right time I doubt anyone would be giving him those accolades. It is also likely that Roseberg would be a multiple world champion and be touted as an elite driver on this thread.
I remember Brawn and Lauda both lobbied him intensely and eventually convinced him to make the move. He wasn't sure about it being the right move at the time. The rest, as they say, is history.
StevieBee said:
M5-911 said:
cgt2 said:
I was lucky enough to be at Donington in 1993. If that wasn't greatness I don't know what else could define the term.
Not really when you know that he was the only front runner car on rain set up. As an aside, I think 93 was Senna's best year in F1- 5 wins was way more than the car deserved.
cgt2 said:
sandman77 said:
I have never given it much thought but this is probably the truth. We all (mostly) accept that Lewis is the greatest of the current era and one of the all time greats but if he hadn’t left McLaren and joined Mercedes at the right time I doubt anyone would be giving him those accolades. It is also likely that Roseberg would be a multiple world champion and be touted as an elite driver on this thread.
I remember Brawn and Lauda both lobbied him intensely and eventually convinced him to make the move. He wasn't sure about it being the right move at the time. Piginapoke said:
cgt2 said:
sandman77 said:
I have never given it much thought but this is probably the truth. We all (mostly) accept that Lewis is the greatest of the current era and one of the all time greats but if he hadn’t left McLaren and joined Mercedes at the right time I doubt anyone would be giving him those accolades. It is also likely that Roseberg would be a multiple world champion and be touted as an elite driver on this thread.
I remember Brawn and Lauda both lobbied him intensely and eventually convinced him to make the move. He wasn't sure about it being the right move at the time. In all seriousness, it's a fallacy to assume that Hamilton has had nothing to do with Mercedes' success other than driving the car.
It would almost be akin to saying that Barrichello would be a multiple champion if Schumacher had left Ferrari.
Rosberg was (relatively) better than Barrichello, but who knows if he'd have been able to reach those heights without Hamilton's benchmark being there.
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