The Triple Crown??

The Triple Crown??

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hot metal

Original Poster:

1,577 posts

165 months

Thursday 25th November
quotequote all
Getting a bit tired of talking about who is `elite` or who is going to push who off in the next 2 GP`s. Better to discuss who we have really enjoyed over the decades & also answer this question.
The Americans seem to think the Triple Crown is any driver who has won the Indy 500, Le Mans & the Monaco Grand Prix. Seems fair ,all special races.

But,, I always thought it was any driver who won the Indy 500, Le Mans and the WDC. so who is right ??

Either way , Graham Hill is the only one who ticks all the boxes either way you look at it, 5 Monaco wins, 2 WDC, 1 Indy 500 ,1 Le Mans 24 Hours.

Few are close to this feat , only Alonso recently who has had it in mind, but found it tougher than he thought.

J. Villeneuve had a crack at the 24 hours ,last in 2008 & came 2nd, close, but no cigar. (no Monaco win for him though)

Will any other driver ever get close equalling Hills record,? I think many WDC champs look down their nose at Indy a little and decide to rest on their not inconsiderable pot/laurels,

Carlososos

507 posts

68 months

Thursday 25th November
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It doesn’t mean as much anymore or possibly it means more I’m not sure. What I mean is each driving series is so efficiently run and raced that for a outsider to get close is nearly impossible.

Alonso is desperate to be a true great a proper hero great. Desperate! That why he has such hatred of Vettel and Ham. They should be his championships.

hot metal

Original Poster:

1,577 posts

165 months

Thursday 25th November
quotequote all
Carlososos said:
It doesn’t mean as much anymore or possibly it means more I’m not sure. What I mean is each driving series is so efficiently run and raced that for a outsider to get close is nearly impossible.

Alonso is desperate to be a true great a proper hero great. Desperate! That why he has such hatred of Vettel and Ham. They should be his championships.
I think you do Alonso a disservice , this supposed anger or hatred he has is just media bullst.

thegreenhell

9,854 posts

191 months

Thursday 25th November
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The only man to have achieved it so far said it included the WDC and not Monaco, and as it has no official definition or recognition it's hard to argue otherwise.

Logically it might make more sense with Monaco, as then it's three individual races, not two races and a championship.

An alternative hardman triple crown would be the F1 WDC, WEC and Indycar series titles.

hot metal

Original Poster:

1,577 posts

165 months

Thursday 25th November
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
The only man to have achieved it so far said it included the WDC and not Monaco, and as it has no official definition or recognition it's hard to argue otherwise.

Logically it might make more sense with Monaco, as then it's three individual races, not two races and a championship.

An alternative hardman triple crown would be the F1 WDC, WEC and Indycar series titles.
Agreed, scratchchin anyone done that ?

But is anyone ever likely to equal Hills record ? still think he was one of the greats but few recognize it now.

Edited by hot metal on Thursday 25th November 18:50

CoolHands

14,025 posts

167 months

Thursday 25th November
quotequote all
It just sounds like made-up nonsense.

hot metal

Original Poster:

1,577 posts

165 months

Thursday 25th November
quotequote all
CoolHands said:
It just sounds like made-up nonsense.
Oh its real enough, why did Alonso bust a gut to try & win Indy, Andretti tried for Le Mans late in his career, trying to tick that final box, I am sure it was on Villeneuve`s mind at LM in 2008 when his star was waning & he was openly ridiculed for his F1 career failing in such a miserable fashion.

Flooble

4,334 posts

72 months

Thursday 25th November
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hot metal said:
thegreenhell said:
The only man to have achieved it so far said it included the WDC and not Monaco, and as it has no official definition or recognition it's hard to argue otherwise.

Logically it might make more sense with Monaco, as then it's three individual races, not two races and a championship.

An alternative hardman triple crown would be the F1 WDC, WEC and Indycar series titles.
Agreed, scratchchin anyone done that ?

But is anyone ever likely to equal Hills record ? still think he was one of the greats but few recognize it now.

Edited by hot metal on Thursday 25th November 18:50
Mansell did F1 and Indycar back to back, but don't think he even tried WEC

hot metal

Original Poster:

1,577 posts

165 months

Thursday 25th November
quotequote all
Mansell never won the Indy 500, 3rd was best place I think, he had a go at Le Mans partnering his 2 sons in 2010, only lasted 4 laps ,not sure how serious this attempt was. LM is not part of the WEC anyway, a stand alone event.
Wiki says the Triple Crown of Motorsport is Indy 500, Le Mans & Monaco GP, maybe an American wrote it. Hill & Jacques Villeneuve maintained it was the WDC that counted & not Monaco, of course Villeneuve would say this as he was always hopeless at Monaco.

Either way, it would take an F1 driver of some note to achieve it now, A J Foyt had 2 of the 3 but he was never going to complete the set to save his life.

Deesee

5,526 posts

55 months

Thursday 25th November
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It’s Monaco, when this was ‘set’ in the days before a WDC.

There’s only a handful of drivers that have actually taken part in all 3 legs.

Fernando and JPM could achieve this with the ‘right’ drive.

Some never made the journey to indi or Monaco.

hot metal

Original Poster:

1,577 posts

165 months

Thursday 25th November
quotequote all
I, suppose, they are 3 of the oldest standing races if not the 3 oldest & toughest.

eps

5,663 posts

241 months

Friday 26th November
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hot metal said:
Mansell never won the Indy 500, 3rd was best place I think, he had a go at Le Mans partnering his 2 sons in 2010, only lasted 4 laps ,not sure how serious this attempt was. LM is not part of the WEC anyway, a stand alone event.
Wiki says the Triple Crown of Motorsport is Indy 500, Le Mans & Monaco GP, maybe an American wrote it. Hill & Jacques Villeneuve maintained it was the WDC that counted & not Monaco, of course Villeneuve would say this as he was always hopeless at Monaco.

Either way, it would take an F1 driver of some note to achieve it now, A J Foyt had 2 of the 3 but he was never going to complete the set to save his life.
LM is part of the current WEC, but it's a superset of that as well..

Surprised no one has mentioned JPM as a possible contender for the Triple Crown. ETA: oops sorry someone has as well - but can't see it happening unless he gets a decent LM24 drive which doesn't seem likely - a bit like Mario Andretti in the Panoz a few years back (early 2000s).

For me it has always been the 3 races. LM24, Monaco and Indy500.

MontyPythonX

212 posts

88 months

Friday 26th November
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Just to muddy the water more...would it be an outright win at Le Mans, or would a class win suffice?

Dal3D

841 posts

123 months

Friday 26th November
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John Surtees must get some recognition for being 4x World Champion on 500cc motorbikes for MV Agusta and world Champion in F1 with Ferrari.

Although his best at Monoco was only 4th and finished 3rd best at Le Mans.

carl_w

7,001 posts

230 months

Friday 26th November
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Isn't Montoya "only" a Le Mans win away from the triple crown using the Monaco definition? He's done a lot of racing in IMSA so it would certainly be possible.

I guess the reason for the F1 world championship definition is that in the past the Le Mans 24h would be a total distance/time of about the same as a full F1 season.

thegreenhell

9,854 posts

191 months

Friday 26th November
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My dream team for Le Mans would have Mansell, Montoya and Villeneuve in the same car. When they win together they can argue amongst themselves about which one of them has just won the Triple Crown.

Muzzer79

5,643 posts

159 months

Friday 26th November
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carl_w said:
Isn't Montoya "only" a Le Mans win away from the triple crown using the Monaco definition? He's done a lot of racing in IMSA so it would certainly be possible.

I guess the reason for the F1 world championship definition is that in the past the Le Mans 24h would be a total distance/time of about the same as a full F1 season.
Indeed he is. I'm surprised he's not gone harder at it - winning Le Mans in the last few years, with the right team, is (very) arguably the easier of the trio to achieve.

hot metal

Original Poster:

1,577 posts

165 months

Friday 26th November
quotequote all
MontyPythonX said:
Just to muddy the water more...would it be an outright win at Le Mans, or would a class win suffice?
Just out right I believe, few remember class wins sadly.

hot metal

Original Poster:

1,577 posts

165 months

Friday 26th November
quotequote all
thegreenhell said:
My dream team for Le Mans would have Mansell, Montoya and Villeneuve in the same car. When they win together they can argue amongst themselves about which one of them has just won the Triple Crown.
biggrin ,I think Montoya`s lack of WDC would take the shine off it, but as there are no official rules just glory and recognition. The Americans look to Indy 500, Daytona 500 & Daytona 24hrs, of course, they would, and plenty have done those 3.
I thought Montoya was going to take the title at one point, 2004 I think, then some tyre regs changed mid season which handed the advantage back to Ferrari, shame, I missed JPM when he was gone, not scared of Michael ,got pee`d off with officialdom I believe.

coppice

6,961 posts

116 months

Saturday 27th November
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I first heard the expression in the Seventies , probably after Graham Hill won Le Mans . Originally , I can confirm it meant Indy 500, Le Mans and victory at Monaco . It did not mean the championship , but the waters have been muddied by speculation about what it does mean by folk who weren't around when the term was coined.

It is not especially important but 'consistency, thou art a jewel' as my OH reminds me. As Indy and Le Mans are events , and not championships , Monaco seems the more logical choice . But little sleep will be lost if it isn't....