Official 2021 Saudi Arabia Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***

[Milkyway]

Really a season of the ‘if, buts & maybes’.
Or... do you remember this saying;
https://www.google.co.uk/search?client=safari&...

Edited by Milkyway on Wednesday 8th December 12:05

[Angpozzuto]

Muzzer79 said:

Pretty simple for me:

Max knows he has to give the place back.

Max wants to do it before the DRS line so he can slipstream back past Lewis afterwards

Lewis thinks "not on your nelly" and holds back, planning to go past after the DRS line.

Max thinks "yes on your nelly" and slams the brakes on, intending to force Hamilton to overtake him.

Both knew exactly what they were doing and behaving tactically.

Max shouldn't have slammed the brakes on with a car behind him. I don't think he intended for Lewis to hit him but, because he's a stubborn what-not, he wasn't having things not being done his way.

Dick-move by Max.

I think this sums it up about right. does anyone know if there's a rule about being on the racing line while trying to give a position back? surely they should be made to move off line like when backmarkers get blue flags

[Siao]

Angpozzuto said:

Muzzer79 said:

Pretty simple for me:

Max knows he has to give the place back.

Max wants to do it before the DRS line so he can slipstream back past Lewis afterwards

Lewis thinks "not on your nelly" and holds back, planning to go past after the DRS line.

Max thinks "yes on your nelly" and slams the brakes on, intending to force Hamilton to overtake him.

Both knew exactly what they were doing and behaving tactically.

Max shouldn't have slammed the brakes on with a car behind him. I don't think he intended for Lewis to hit him but, because he's a stubborn what-not, he wasn't having things not being done his way.

Dick-move by Max.

I think this sums it up about right. does anyone know if there's a rule about being on the racing line while trying to give a position back? surely they should be made to move off line like when backmarkers get blue flags

Not a rule that I know of, but it was very obvious after Spa '98. I vaguely remember another incident, possibly with Alonso where someone lifted on the racing line, but generally drivers do not do that. Interestingly, the term "racing line" wasn't even in the rule book at that time, can't find it before the 2012 sporting rules...

[honda_exige]

paulguitar said:

honda_exige said:

Jolyon Palmer said Hamilton's actions were "bizarre", which is most reasonable people's thoughts. Quite a fair analysis overall by him.

I don't think you, of all posters, get to decide what 'most reasonable people's' thoughts are... It's likely that due to Max being thoroughly untrustworthy, Lewis was reluctant to get alongside him with the possible result of a sideswipe or similar.

You tried to compare F1 to road driving, your thought process is even odder than either Max or Lewis

'and for our latest Sky Pad Analysis we cross to Paul Guitar, reigning M25-Ring champion'

[VladD]

Red Bull Gives You Diiings

[Digger]

According to the last few laps the front wing needs to be re-modelled exactly as above . . .

[SmoothCriminal]

Angpozzuto said:

Muzzer79 said:

Pretty simple for me:

Max knows he has to give the place back.

Max wants to do it before the DRS line so he can slipstream back past Lewis afterwards

Lewis thinks "not on your nelly" and holds back, planning to go past after the DRS line.

Max thinks "yes on your nelly" and slams the brakes on, intending to force Hamilton to overtake him.

Both knew exactly what they were doing and behaving tactically.

Max shouldn't have slammed the brakes on with a car behind him. I don't think he intended for Lewis to hit him but, because he's a stubborn what-not, he wasn't having things not being done his way.

Dick-move by Max.

I think this sums it up about right. does anyone know if there's a rule about being on the racing line while trying to give a position back? surely they should be made to move off line like when backmarkers get blue flags

If this was true then why did Hamilton take the place back at pretty much the same spot.

All this talk of Hamilton playing tactically is just mind games from people trying to either defend max or adding something that is not there.

Every f1 fan knows that you can't give a place back and take it at the next corner which is exactly why when max did do that they slapped him with a 5 second penalty before he was even out of turn 2.

[MontyPythonX]

angrymoby said:

i have to watch again, but iirc they didn't replace anything

If that's the case then disregard my previous comment

[havoc]

PhilAsia said:

Just to balance things out, I thought start 3 - when Max was in P3 and passed LH and Ocon, was an absolutely blinding piece of driving, right ON THE LIMIT!!

I'll disagree.

He threw it in there at Hamilton knowing he'd benefit either way, modulated his braking so HE stayed on track, while forcing Hamilton and Ocon off the circuit and ultimately behind him.

If that had been a gravel trap not run-off he'd have ended two people's races through excessively aggressive driving.


...so it was very much within his standard MO. And just happened to be within the new (expanded-by-Masi) letter of the law about leaving people space. 6 months ago and with a different driver that behaviour would have seen him receive a penalty from the stewards.

[Sandpit Steve]

VladD said:

Red Bull Gives You Diiings

That could be a great CFD correlation exercise.

3D scan the part as it is now, feed it into the CFD model, and see how much slower around that circuit the computer says the car should have been!

[PhilAsia]

Siao said:

Angpozzuto said:

Muzzer79 said:

Pretty simple for me:

Max knows he has to give the place back.

Max wants to do it before the DRS line so he can slipstream back past Lewis afterwards

Lewis thinks "not on your nelly" and holds back, planning to go past after the DRS line.

Max thinks "yes on your nelly" and slams the brakes on, intending to force Hamilton to overtake him.

Both knew exactly what they were doing and behaving tactically.

Max shouldn't have slammed the brakes on with a car behind him. I don't think he intended for Lewis to hit him but, because he's a stubborn what-not, he wasn't having things not being done his way.

Dick-move by Max.

I think this sums it up about right. does anyone know if there's a rule about being on the racing line while trying to give a position back? surely they should be made to move off line like when backmarkers get blue flags

Not a rule that I know of, but it was very obvious after Spa '98. I vaguely remember another incident, possibly with Alonso where someone lifted on the racing line, but generally drivers do not do that. Interestingly, the term "racing line" wasn't even in the rule book at that time, can't find it before the 2012 sporting rules...

CoulRBRthard if I recall{?}

[PhilAsia]

honda_exige said:

paulguitar said:

honda_exige said:

Jolyon Palmer said Hamilton's actions were "bizarre", which is most reasonable people's thoughts. Quite a fair analysis overall by him.

I don't think you, of all posters, get to decide what 'most reasonable people's' thoughts are... It's likely that due to Max being thoroughly untrustworthy, Lewis was reluctant to get alongside him with the possible result of a sideswipe or similar.

You tried to compare F1 to road driving, your thought process is even odder than either Max or Lewis

'and for our latest Sky Pad Analysis we cross to Paul Guitar, reigning M25-Ring champion'

...I compared tyres, tarmac, and outcome of unexpected braking with a closely following driver on the road.
Compared to tyres, tarmac, and outcome of unexpected braking with a closely following driver on the track.

I don't know, but I thought it was a relatively easy to grasp comparison...for some

[MarkwG]

PhilAsia said:

honda_exige said:

paulguitar said:

honda_exige said:

Jolyon Palmer said Hamilton's actions were "bizarre", which is most reasonable people's thoughts. Quite a fair analysis overall by him.

I don't think you, of all posters, get to decide what 'most reasonable people's' thoughts are... It's likely that due to Max being thoroughly untrustworthy, Lewis was reluctant to get alongside him with the possible result of a sideswipe or similar.

You tried to compare F1 to road driving, your thought process is even odder than either Max or Lewis

'and for our latest Sky Pad Analysis we cross to Paul Guitar, reigning M25-Ring champion'

...I compared tyres, tarmac, and outcome of unexpected braking with a closely following driver on the road.
Compared to tyres, tarmac, and outcome of unexpected braking with a closely following driver on the track.

I don't know, but I thought it was a relatively easy to grasp comparison...for some

Yep, I got it, as I suspect did many others: use of an analogy that relates to something people are more likely to be familiar with is reasonable & common. It's not the same as saying "if I was an F1 driver..." for example, when you're not - that's presuming an experience of something you don't have.

[Milkyway]

The passing equation...
https://www.skillsyouneed.com/images/foil-method.p...

[MustangGT]

In hindsight it is surprising RB did not protest Lewis's car for being underweight following the incident.

[Milkyway]

MustangGT said:

In hindsight it is surprising RB did not protest Lewis's car for being underweight following the incident.

Thought that Redbull GAVE you wings...obviously all lies. :

[GCH]

PhilAsia said:

CoulRBRthard if I recall{?}

Already referenced a few pages back.

It was Coulthard, while being lapped by Schumacher, in appalling wet weather with monsoon levels of standing water and spray.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN10hXcuCzo
Totally lifted (not braked) on the racing line, not visible due to the spray, and Schumacher smashed into the rear and finished the lap on three wheels before retiring and having to be pulled off coulthard in the pits.

Absolute dick move by coulthard which makes it even more laughable him trying to blame lewis for saudi.

Would love to have seen Lewis do this to max post-race. Would be great for someone to knock some sense into him, as the FIA aren't going to.

[Siao]

GCH said:

PhilAsia said:

CoulRBRthard if I recall{?}

Already referenced a few pages back.

It was Coulthard, while being lapped by Schumacher, in appalling wet weather with monsoon levels of standing water and spray.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN10hXcuCzo
Totally lifted (not braked) on the racing line, not visible due to the spray, and Schumacher smashed into the rear and finished the lap on three wheels before retiring and having to be pulled off coulthard in the pits.

Absolute dick move by coulthard which makes it even more laughable him trying to blame lewis for saudi.

Would love to have seen Lewis do this to max post-race. Would be great for someone to knock some sense into him, as the FIA aren't going to.

What's funnier is that years later DC admitted that he should never have lifted in the racing line! But braking is ok apparently

[ukkid35]

TLDR - has anyone mentioned the way Max is weaving before the impact?

It certainly wasn't touched on in any of the TV commentary that I heard

[MarkwG]

Siao said:

GCH said:

PhilAsia said:

CoulRBRthard if I recall{?}

Already referenced a few pages back.

It was Coulthard, while being lapped by Schumacher, in appalling wet weather with monsoon levels of standing water and spray.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yN10hXcuCzo
Totally lifted (not braked) on the racing line, not visible due to the spray, and Schumacher smashed into the rear and finished the lap on three wheels before retiring and having to be pulled off coulthard in the pits.

Absolute dick move by coulthard which makes it even more laughable him trying to blame lewis for saudi.

Would love to have seen Lewis do this to max post-race. Would be great for someone to knock some sense into him, as the FIA aren't going to.

What's funnier is that years later DC admitted that he should never have lifted in the racing line! But braking is ok apparently

He did, indeed I think it was matter of weeks rather than years. In contrast to last week, though, I don't recall potential intent to cause an incident, Coulthard was met with a wall of spray & backed off because he was temporarily disoriented. The weather was similar to this year, where they couldn't even race, so stupid, maybe even incompetent, although who am I to say, but not malicious or devious. It does make his comments a little difficult to stomach, certainly.