Official 2021 Saudi Arabia Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***
Discussion
honda_exige said:
However, when it was announced that Max had to serve a penalty for failing to slow down under a yellow flag, which effectively thwarted Red Bull's hopes, there was no more time to provide an engine change.
/
No time, and importantly it would have been a pitlane start as they were in Parc Ferme./
I think Red Bull have missed the engine change opportunity.
I thought since the Honda engine is homologated to the later spec they can’t simply turn it up to 11 as Mercedes’ have done-as the Mercedes’ is basically the same ice that ran with party mode.
Regardless, I’d love Verstappen and red bull to try something like this and get stuck in traffic, seeing max perfect that alonso glare at Abu Dhabi would be the icing on the cake of a fantastic season.
Where’s Petrov when you need him
Regardless, I’d love Verstappen and red bull to try something like this and get stuck in traffic, seeing max perfect that alonso glare at Abu Dhabi would be the icing on the cake of a fantastic season.
Where’s Petrov when you need him
Deesee said:
honda_exige said:
However, when it was announced that Max had to serve a penalty for failing to slow down under a yellow flag, which effectively thwarted Red Bull's hopes, there was no more time to provide an engine change.
/
No time, and importantly it would have been a pitlane start as they were in Parc Ferme./
I think Red Bull have missed the engine change opportunity.
Any penalty would put Verstappen right in the pack for the start.
Both Max and Hamilton have got lucky so far with traffic, that luck can only take you so far.
If I was them I'd be doing my very best to stay out of everyone else's way, let's face it there's not that much to play for outside the top two.
Assuming it's a Merc 1,2 in qualy with Max 3rd If I was Bottas I'd be running Max to the outside and squeezing him for all it's worth, we know that's allowed now.
That's assuming Max hasn't pulled a few lengths on Bottas by T1.
For the sake of the championship I'd love a Hamilton 1st, Max 2nd to set up the final race finale.
Both Max and Hamilton have got lucky so far with traffic, that luck can only take you so far.
If I was them I'd be doing my very best to stay out of everyone else's way, let's face it there's not that much to play for outside the top two.
Assuming it's a Merc 1,2 in qualy with Max 3rd If I was Bottas I'd be running Max to the outside and squeezing him for all it's worth, we know that's allowed now.
That's assuming Max hasn't pulled a few lengths on Bottas by T1.
For the sake of the championship I'd love a Hamilton 1st, Max 2nd to set up the final race finale.
HustleRussell said:
This has to be one of the worse tracks of the season to take a grid drop if you're Red Bull, most cars on the grid barring the backmarkers and the Alpha Tauris could prove a significant obstacle.
It's only a 5 place grid drop, so if he qualifies 2nd that's only 7th. It's mighty off the line perez will give way, Gasly too if he's 6th. Doesn't seem too risky but obviously not entirely risk free. Deesee said:
Flooble said:
They got away with changing it after qualifying in Hungary, which was also during parc ferme?
That was already pooled.Flooble said:
Deesee said:
Flooble said:
They got away with changing it after qualifying in Hungary, which was also during parc ferme?
That was already pooled.
Interestingly this PU 3 has only seen one full race, Zandefoort. Hungary, Monza and Spa were all not full distance.
Any change past PU3 would result in a grid penalty/pit lane start (if diff spec).
Thanks - it was the pit lane start but only for PU4+ that confused me. I wasn't questioning you, if it came over like that I apologise
I didn't know that unit had done so few races, I thought only the teams knew that sort of thing - excellent digging.
Was Hungary not full distance though? I know Max finished low down because of the damage, but I thought he did finish? I guess he didn't finish on the lead lap, but not sure that is a massive saving!
Still means he's got a unit that is almost as new as Hamilton's "spicy" one though - when you consider the Sprint in Brazil as well.
I didn't know that unit had done so few races, I thought only the teams knew that sort of thing - excellent digging.
Was Hungary not full distance though? I know Max finished low down because of the damage, but I thought he did finish? I guess he didn't finish on the lead lap, but not sure that is a massive saving!
Still means he's got a unit that is almost as new as Hamilton's "spicy" one though - when you consider the Sprint in Brazil as well.
Flooble said:
Thanks - it was the pit lane start but only for PU4+ that confused me. I wasn't questioning you, if it came over like that I apologise
I didn't know that unit had done so few races, I thought only the teams knew that sort of thing - excellent digging.
Was Hungary not full distance though? I know Max finished low down because of the damage, but I thought he did finish? I guess he didn't finish on the lead lap, but not sure that is a massive saving!
Still means he's got a unit that is almost as new as Hamilton's "spicy" one though - when you consider the Sprint in Brazil as well.
I didn't know that unit had done so few races, I thought only the teams knew that sort of thing - excellent digging.
Was Hungary not full distance though? I know Max finished low down because of the damage, but I thought he did finish? I guess he didn't finish on the lead lap, but not sure that is a massive saving!
Still means he's got a unit that is almost as new as Hamilton's "spicy" one though - when you consider the Sprint in Brazil as well.
it’s F1 no one really knows until they roll up on the grid!I’m pretty sure Red Bull are running the ‘22 unit so there should not be any spec changes (but this is F1) to force a pit lane start.
PU1 was 6 races (France)
PU2 was 4 races (retired at Quali Hungary, damaged at Silverstone)
PU3 was 2 races + Spa/Monza (+ sprint).
PU4 active from Russia 6 races to date (+ sprint).
Hungary, sorry, got Max confused as retired with Bottas/Checo, he did a full distance (damaged barge boards thinking back).
With PU3 you’d think that’s the unit they are using in free practice, so there would be a fair bit of time on that already.
Even if they have shared race day with PU3/4 that’s 8 races + sprints + Monza (ok and Spa), + another 10 FP1/FP2 (etc), another 2 full weekends on unknown tracks is pushing it.
Flooble said:
They got away with changing it after qualifying in Hungary, which was also during parc ferme?
They did - becuase it was a physically identical unit, replacing noticable damage, and within the reliability parameters as the third engine of the season. Not that it didn’t appear dodgy as hell at the time. I think it’s all the RB mind games at this point. There’s rumours that Bottas might take a new PU this weekend, so RB are trying to get their own rumours going. The fact remains that there’s no evidence that a new Honda engine is any faster than an old one, whereas the Merc engines have a well-documented falloff in performance with time - and they’ve been doing some funky experiments with Bottas for most of the second half of this season.
Deesee said:
it’s F1 no one really knows until they roll up on the grid!I’m pretty sure Red Bull are running the ‘22 unit so there should not be any spec changes (but this is F1) to force a pit lane start.
PU1 was 6 races (France)
PU2 was 4 races (retired at Quali Hungary, damaged at Silverstone)
PU3 was 2 races + Spa/Monza (+ sprint).
PU4 active from Russia 6 races to date (+ sprint).
Hungary, sorry, got Max confused as retired with Bottas/Checo, he did a full distance (damaged barge boards thinking back).
With PU3 you’d think that’s the unit they are using in free practice, so there would be a fair bit of time on that already.
Even if they have shared race day with PU3/4 that’s 8 races + sprints + Monza (ok and Spa), + another 10 FP1/FP2 (etc), another 2 full weekends on unknown tracks is pushing it.
It will be interesting to see. I would expect them to want to get a lot of laps in at Jeddah (maybe a little less so at Abu Dhabi). Max didn't do as many practice laps as the Mercedes guys in Qatar (10 in FP3 vs 16 for Hamilton, and 20 vs 25 in FP2; but 22 vs 21 in FP1). So maybe Red Bull have been managing the mileage on the "practice" engine.
Certainly adds an extra dimension, if Red Bull are managing mileage. Take the grid drop so you can really get into the rhythm of the fairly complicated (in terms of number of turns) circuit, or nurse your engine knowing Max can get P2 any day of the week regardless.
I believe the FIA are considering a last minute rule change Re: Engines and in order to ensure that there is no bias shown at all to be consistent with the season. I understand the new proposed rule to be :
"If a Red Bull car takes a new PU they are promoted 5 places for being brave and any Mercedes car ahead is demoted 3 places."
Might be wrong, but we will see.........
"If a Red Bull car takes a new PU they are promoted 5 places for being brave and any Mercedes car ahead is demoted 3 places."
Might be wrong, but we will see.........
Horner being very combative in the Telegraph.
Blames "other teams" for bringing his comments about the marshall to the Stewards' attention; accuses Hamilton of aggressive comments, while Max "just wants to drive and the play on his Playstation".
Most interesting is that he suggests that Merc's rear wing may mean that the season may end up being decided in court.....
Blames "other teams" for bringing his comments about the marshall to the Stewards' attention; accuses Hamilton of aggressive comments, while Max "just wants to drive and the play on his Playstation".
Most interesting is that he suggests that Merc's rear wing may mean that the season may end up being decided in court.....
Blib said:
Horner being very combative in the Telegraph.
Blames "other teams" for bringing his comments about the marshall to the Stewards' attention; accuses Hamilton of aggressive comments, while Max "just wants to drive and the play on his Playstation".
Most interesting is that he suggests that Merc's rear wing may mean that the season may end up being decided in court.....
The guy is salivating on bus windows.Blames "other teams" for bringing his comments about the marshall to the Stewards' attention; accuses Hamilton of aggressive comments, while Max "just wants to drive and the play on his Playstation".
Most interesting is that he suggests that Merc's rear wing may mean that the season may end up being decided in court.....
The "court" comment was to influence favorable outcomes from FIA decisions imo.....
Gassing Station | Formula 1 | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff