Mohammed ben Sulayem

[Evercross]

PhilAsia said:

Evercross said:

jm doc said:

I've stated clearly and logically why the race ended before the last lap, it ceases to be an FIA race when the FIA rule book is not being followed.

By your own logic the race is null-and-void then?! Wasn't that my point all along, that forcing the issue means the race result is void, and attempting to confect an alternative result based on another rule interpretation and what might have happened is an equal injustice? This wasn't a case of the flag dropping early by mistake catching everyone out. What happened happened in the full gaze of every team and they had to deal with it accordingly. Mercedes chose to let it lie.

Everyone else should respect that.

WHEN? = the last lap is when the rule book was thrown out and the LAP becomes null-and-void. Lewis and MB won at the point F1 rules ceased to be upheld and the sport became a fiasco. This was a case of the rules being dropped before the flag did.

Everyone can understand and respect that.

This is exactly why I cannot take the obsessive cultists seriously. People more intelligent than you have understood exactly what can of worms that interpretation will open, because all it takes is for someone to pervert the rules at the point they want the result to stand and by your logic it is a legal finish.

Bonkers.

[jm doc]

Evercross said:

PhilAsia said:

Evercross said:

jm doc said:

I've stated clearly and logically why the race ended before the last lap, it ceases to be an FIA race when the FIA rule book is not being followed.

By your own logic the race is null-and-void then?! Wasn't that my point all along, that forcing the issue means the race result is void, and attempting to confect an alternative result based on another rule interpretation and what might have happened is an equal injustice? This wasn't a case of the flag dropping early by mistake catching everyone out. What happened happened in the full gaze of every team and they had to deal with it accordingly. Mercedes chose to let it lie.

Everyone else should respect that.

WHEN? = the last lap is when the rule book was thrown out and the LAP becomes null-and-void. Lewis and MB won at the point F1 rules ceased to be upheld and the sport became a fiasco. This was a case of the rules being dropped before the flag did.

Everyone can understand and respect that.

This is exactly why I cannot take the obsessive cultists seriously. People more intelligent than you have understood exactly what can of worms that interpretation will open, because all it takes is for someone to pervert the rules at the point they want the result to stand and by your logic it is a legal finish.

Bonkers.

Dear God, you really ARE bonkers!

[Evercross]

jm doc said:

Dear God, you really ARE bonkers!

OK, I'll bite. Let's just imagine for a minute that Masi was biased towards RB and Ver, and that with 2 laps to go Ver is ahead on worn tyres with Ham second on new rubber and gaining fast. Masi decides for no reason to pervert the rules and show the chequered flag. Both racers are confused and keep racing for one more lap and Ham passes and wins after the correct number of race laps are run.

Whoopsie - rule breach, race director did not follow the correct procedure by running the nominated number of laps. Race ended when the rules stopped being applied, therefore Ver wins (according to you).

That's why your logic is flawed if you want it to mean Ham was the "real" victor in AD, because by your logic a race director could manipulate a result by deliberately flouting the rules at the point he wants the result to stand. Why is alleged manipulation OK when it suits the outcome you want?

I don't care how bitter you are as a Ham fan, as an F1 fan I never want your interpretation of how AD should have been treated to ever apply. Ending a race on a lap when the rules are allegedly breached is a recipe for corruption of results on a grand scale. Establishing that as a precedent to satiate your sense of injustice in AD is so myopic and selfish it is unbelievable.

It is with good reason that annulment is the remedy. As a neutral I believe the course of events was the correct one given that, despite the race director cocking things up, negating the entire last race of the year on a point of principle was a futile exercise that would have just caused more problems than it solved and in the long-run changed nothing except the perception of the sport (and the Mercedes F1 team) in the eyes of the more disinterested public, but there was no other legitimate remedy that would have given Ham fans the result they wanted, short of re-running the race and even then it wasn't a given.

Edited by Evercross on Tuesday 28th June 22:00

[Evercross]

jsf said:

Already happened multiple times. Result declared as the rules required with countback to the point where the race was ended by the flag. The last moment the race was live under the rules.

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/single...

You just pissed on your own argument.

If you cannot see the difference between a celeb waving the flag too eagerly too early and the race director intentionally perverting the rules to end the race early then there is no hope for you.

People are accusing Masi of manipulating the result of AD, and those same people want a process applied by which the result is manipulated differently so that the outcome suits them.

As I said - bonkers.

Edited by Evercross on Tuesday 28th June 22:06

[TheDeuce]

jsf said:

Theres been no hope for many of us from the moment we were born.

You're doing alright. Don't listen to the bullies.

[PhilAsia]

Evercross said:

jsf said:

Already happened multiple times. Result declared as the rules required with countback to the point where the race was ended by the flag. The last moment the race was live under the rules.

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/single...

You just pissed on your own argument.

If you cannot see the difference between a celeb waving the flag too eagerly too early and the race director intentionally perverting the rules to end the race earlyignoring, and in complete contradiction to the rules he defended vehemently the year previously, then there is no hope for you.

Edited by Evercross on Tuesday 28th June 22:06

There. FTFY.
Bit forgetful Evercross:

[Evercross]

PhilAsia said:

Evercross said:

jsf said:

Already happened multiple times. Result declared as the rules required with countback to the point where the race was ended by the flag. The last moment the race was live under the rules.

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/single...

You just pissed on your own argument.

If you cannot see the difference between a celeb waving the flag too eagerly too early and the race director intentionally perverting the rules to end the race earlyignoring, and in complete contradiction to the rules he defended vehemently the year previously, then there is no hope for you.

There. FTFY.

Someone else changing my words to suit their argument.

No wonder so many live in denial when they think they can shape the truth!

[HighwayStar]

Evercross said:

PhilAsia said:

Evercross said:

jsf said:

Already happened multiple times. Result declared as the rules required with countback to the point where the race was ended by the flag. The last moment the race was live under the rules.

https://www.motorsportmagazine.com/articles/single...

You just pissed on your own argument.

If you cannot see the difference between a celeb waving the flag too eagerly too early and the race director intentionally perverting the rules to end the race earlyignoring, and in complete contradiction to the rules he defended vehemently the year previously, then there is no hope for you.

There. FTFY.

Someone else changing my words to suit their argument.

No wonder so many live in denial when they think they can shape the truth!

You have an opinion, it doesn’t have to be agreed with! Y’know like you don’t agree with the opinion of others.
It is not the case that all who say the rules weren’t followed believe Hamilton should be made champion. For most it’s simply the rules weren’t not followed as they have been in the past, the safety car in this discussion. It’s not about Hamilton. This conversation would be the same if Leclerc had lost out in the same manner.
I don’t want to be watching a sport where from race to race similar contentious situations the rules are not consistently applied across the season. Rules not being applied to keep the championship close is something I’m not fond off either.

[Evercross]

HighwayStar said:

You have an opinion, it doesn’t have to be agreed with! Y’know like you don’t agree with the opinion of others.
It is not the case that all who say the rules weren’t followed believe Hamilton should be made champion. For most it’s simply the rules weren’t not followed as they have been in the past, the safety car in this discussion. It’s not about Hamilton. This conversation would be the same if Leclerc had lost out in the same manner.
I don’t want to be watching a sport where from race to race similar contentious situations the rules are not consistently applied across the season. Rules not being applied to keep the championship close is something I’m not fond off either.

It is not an opinion, it is an observation based on what actually happened. Mercedes DID NOT APPEAL THE RESULT. I proffered that the reason they did so is because their minds are superior to the cultists in here who think there was a resolution that would have given a Mercedes driver the 2021 WDC, without massive fallout for their reputation, the sport's reputation and their ongoing business model.

Simple as that.

If anyone believes otherwise then they are welcome to use whatever power, influence and resources they have to see their version of justice done. If for whatever reason they think that is not possible then they should accept their alternative interpretation of how things should have been are just fiction and deserve to be treated as such.

Edited by Evercross on Wednesday 29th June 10:28

[HighwayStar]

Evercross said:

HighwayStar said:

You have an opinion, it doesn’t have to be agreed with! Y’know like you don’t agree with the opinion of others.
It is not the case that all who say the rules weren’t followed believe Hamilton should be made champion. For most it’s simply the rules weren’t not followed as they have been in the past, the safety car in this discussion. It’s not about Hamilton. This conversation would be the same if Leclerc had lost out in the same manner.
I don’t want to be watching a sport where from race to race similar contentious situations the rules are not consistently applied across the season. Rules not being applied to keep the championship close is something I’m not fond off either.

It is not an opinion, it is an observation based on what actually happened. Mercedes DID NOT APPEAL THE RESULT. I proffered that the reason they did so is because their minds are superior to the cultists in here who think there was a resolution that would have given a Mercedes driver the 2021 WDC, without massive fallout for their reputation, the sport's reputation and their ongoing business model.

Simple as that.

If anyone disagrees then they are welcome to use whatever power, influence and resources they have to see their version of justice done. If for whatever reason they think that is not possible then they should accept their alternative interpretation of how things should have been are just fiction and deserve to be treated as such.

Edited by Evercross on Wednesday 29th June 10:27

Remember this…
HighwayStar said:
Max’s WDC*
Petty, and emblematic of the denial.

You think you are carrying a torch for the truth but really you are disrespecting even Mercedes Benz and Hamilton who have acknowledged and accepted the situation. They are clearly bigger men than you.

I am not arguing the rights and wrongs after-the-fact incidentally, I just think that the torch bearers for the alternative 2021 WDC ending deserve to be categorized with flat-earthers.

My point is it’s not about Hamilton per se… you’ve decided it’s all Hamilton fans wanting the result changed. It’s not!

[angrymoby]

Evercross said:

It is not an opinion, it is an observation based on what actually happened. Mercedes DID NOT APPEAL THE RESULT. I proffered that the reason they did so is because their minds are superior to the cultists in here who think there was a resolution that would have given a Mercedes driver the 2021 WDC, without massive fallout for their reputation, the sport's reputation and their ongoing business model.

Simple as that.

If anyone believes otherwise then they are welcome to use whatever power, influence and resources they have to see their version of justice done. If for whatever reason they think that is not possible then they should accept their alternative interpretation of how things should have been are just fiction and deserve to be treated as such.

it's not a fiction when the FIA acknowledge that rules weren't followed correctly & had they been the result would have certainly been different

the only fiction is as to 'why' that was & 'if' Merc had pursued it to the fullest

Max will always be classified in the history books as 2021 WDC, that will not change ...but the same history books will tell of how he shouldn't have been & no amount of attempted gaslighting will change that, no matter how much you stomp your feet

[Evercross]

HighwayStar said:

My point is it’s not about Hamilton per se… you’ve decided it’s all Hamilton fans wanting the result changed. It’s not!

I'll ask again - if there is a route to the result being changed then why was it not taken? No conspiracy theories or allegations of bias please, just the facts and reasons...

[carl_w]

Now ever Whinger Spice is saying that Masi got it wrong https://www.racefans.net/2022/06/29/masi-did-get-i...

[angrymoby]

Evercross said:

I'll ask again - if there is a route to the result being changed then why was it not taken? No conspiracy theories or allegations of bias please, just the facts and reasons...

cost (in it's numerous meanings)

[sparta6]

paulguitar said:

sparta6 said:

When will the salty tears stop flowing ?

How old are you sparta?

just old enough to trigger your reaction

[sparta6]

jsf said:

Theres been no hope for any of us from the moment we were born.

The greatest post on PH, ever

[PhilAsia]

Just so you are aware Evercross, I do not want the result to be changed. Max did what every other driver would do in the same circumstances - that is an indictment of the sportsmanship nowadays, and that is where my criticism emanates from.

The result can stand and my criticism will continue.

[HighwayStar]

Evercross said:

HighwayStar said:

My point is it’s not about Hamilton per se… you’ve decided it’s all Hamilton fans wanting the result changed. It’s not!

I'll ask again - if there is a route to the result being changed then why was it not taken? No conspiracy theories or allegations of bias please, just the facts and reasons...

Where have I said I want the result changed? I’m not that person.

[Evercross]

angrymoby said:

Evercross said:

I'll ask again - if there is a route to the result being changed then why was it not taken? No conspiracy theories or allegations of bias please, just the facts and reasons...

cost (in it's numerous meanings)

Agreed.

[MustangGT]

Evercross said:

angrymoby said:

Evercross said:

I'll ask again - if there is a route to the result being changed then why was it not taken? No conspiracy theories or allegations of bias please, just the facts and reasons...

cost (in it's numerous meanings)

Agreed.

You now appear to be arguing against yourself Evercross?