Christian Horner
Discussion
Petrus1983 said:
HocusPocus said:
Some PHers tolerate Trump rape and pussy grabs, even a celebratory non-consensual peck on the lips by Rubiales. Must be the women's fault for being so irresistably attractive. Cavemen, not 1972.
This is a weird thing - and I'm 100% not focusing this on you. But have you ever thought we're in 2024 and we have strong, knowledgeable and focused women who know exactly what their power is? Why do you assume the PA is the victim? Why do you feel she was forced into anything? Why do you feel that, as a woman, she didn't have her own mindset as to the outcome?I have read all the published whatsapps, which have not been verified. If true, the content raises prima facie cause for concern about serious wrongdoings; employment law, corporate law and commercial contracts plus human rights issues all come into play. Yes, there is almost certainly to be more to it than that, and CH should have the right to defend himself with due process.
If reports about the dismissal are true, then she would be well advised to take this to Tribunal where proper legal examination will take place in the proper forum. It is called open justice.
What I hate about PH (and not about you at all) is the often ignorant presumptions espoused by certain brave keyboard warriors.
HardtopManual said:
Bo_apex said:
thegreenhell said:
It says her contract was terminated and she is preparing to sue them.
Also in that article, the Thai majority shareholders back Horner and value Newey over Verstappen, and would replace the driver if necessary, targeting Albon and Paistri for next year. Both have contracts elsewhere, but contracts can be bought and they have enough money for any payoff required.
Albon is on record admitting he cannot drive a RedBull as quickly as Max. Neither can Perez.Also in that article, the Thai majority shareholders back Horner and value Newey over Verstappen, and would replace the driver if necessary, targeting Albon and Paistri for next year. Both have contracts elsewhere, but contracts can be bought and they have enough money for any payoff required.
Red Bull drop down the grid instantly if they lose Max.
Good news for the Tifosi
Albon and Perez in the RB would see Albon WDC.
NRS said:
tele_lover said:
Earlier someone said it looked like she shared a screenshot with a friend.
Depending when that was, RBR could maybe argue that conversation with CEO is company material and gross misconduct.
No they couldn’t, it was a private relationship and nothing to do with work, remember? Depending when that was, RBR could maybe argue that conversation with CEO is company material and gross misconduct.
Bo_apex said:
Gazzab said:
Bo_apex said:
Forester1965 said:
Bo_apex said:
Some women love to flirt.
Maybe she's a flirter ?
Maybe they're just celebrating Jos' son winning a WDC? If it were two guys embracing would you say "maybe he's a flirter"?Maybe she's a flirter ?
But women can celebrate and flirt simultaneously.
So can men.
Human behaviour. It is what it is.
It seems you need to get out more often.
Flirting is rife in society, especially in the metropolis. The Horner baseline is ultimately about flirting gone too far. Women have been the downfall of many men through history, especially the successful and high profile.
It can be lucrative low hanging fruit for women of a manipulative nature.
LH was stitched up like a kipper but there's an NDA on the real reason he split with NS.
Maybe Horner should've married Scary Spice instead
said:
Verstappen was asked if his father regretted his comments: “I have not asked him that, but my dad is very outspoken and he is not a liar, that is for sure. My dad and I are very close. We call every day. I don’t see myself in F1 without them (his father and manager) by my side.”
Verstappen not supporting Horner, endorsing his father’s comments (“Horner staying will tear the team apart”). I.e., he goes or I go.https://x.com/PhilDuncanF1/status/1765431877089870...
EddieSteadyGo said:
davidd said:
It is on their website, just needs a little digging to find it...
TBH there are a few things in there that I'd not seen before but given who publishes the mag I'm never inclined to believe it.
Do you have a link? I can see they have the first 14 pages free to read, but the article in question seems to be later in the magazine. There is this page, which shows the start of the story, but I might quite like to read the rest of it.TBH there are a few things in there that I'd not seen before but given who publishes the mag I'm never inclined to believe it.
Petrus1983 said:
Frank Williams always knew a team was bigger than an individual driver - he even dropped Damon Hill after he won the world championship. Whilst I appreciate Williams isn't the same now - but lessons can be learnt.
I don't think he dropped him because Damon was being a ****?Kart16 said:
EddieSteadyGo said:
davidd said:
It is on their website, just needs a little digging to find it...
TBH there are a few things in there that I'd not seen before but given who publishes the mag I'm never inclined to believe it.
Do you have a link? I can see they have the first 14 pages free to read, but the article in question seems to be later in the magazine. There is this page, which shows the start of the story, but I might quite like to read the rest of it.TBH there are a few things in there that I'd not seen before but given who publishes the mag I'm never inclined to believe it.
Petrus1983 said:
Frank Williams always knew a team was bigger than an individual driver - he even dropped Damon Hill after he won the world championship. Whilst I appreciate Williams isn't the same now - but lessons can be learnt.
He dropped him well before he became WDC. It was when he thought JV could win in the car. It's not so much that Williams and Head thought the team bigger than the driver. They thought drivers were plug-in devices.
Some Gump said:
They’ll drop quicker without Newey!
While Newey is a very clever guy, he is one of hundreds of enginners on the team, and he does seem to be involved it lots of other things, hes also not young and may not have the drive he once had, not sure RB would change much if he left now days.Him and Horner have built a great team, i do wander how it would change if either or both left, they have formed the team, and the team would still maybe the team
Wills2 said:
isaldiri said:
Wills2 said:
What is seemingly lost on some poster's whilst they indulge in moral indignation and piously condemn Horner based upon snippets of whatapps and the outbursts of a violent criminal with track record of domestic abuse, is just low their own moral standards are to be able to condemn someone based upon so little.
It seems to completely pass them by that no one outside of the two belligerents, the investigation team and its recipients actually know the truth and what is in front of us isn't enough to make a judgement.
It's less a question of morals as that's simply a useful stick used in this case to beat someone (ie Horner) with. It's more people are just happy to take the line of 'I dislike Horner (particularly because his team/driver has stiffed the one I support) so anything bad about him must therefore be true and anyone not in agreement with me is a Horner/RB supporter/defender'.....It seems to completely pass them by that no one outside of the two belligerents, the investigation team and its recipients actually know the truth and what is in front of us isn't enough to make a judgement.
Whilst we're on subject of Horner and his distractors, I have no love for the man and have posted many times about my dislike for the way he conducted himself during 2021, I'm a Lewis fanboy and not supporter of the RB team but wouldn't lower myself or be as naive to act/post in way many have on this thread.
OK... that BusinessF1 article...I've now seen a copy and, it's interesting....
I can see why Horner is taking legal action, it's not giving him a nice write up. It's written mainly from a perspective as being supportive of FH, but I have to say, it seems well sourced. However, we know some people have questioned the owner of this magazine's reputation, so don't take this as fact.
He makes the following claims...
When FH made her complaint to Red Bull head office, they started a 9 week investigation by Stefan Salzer, Red Bull’s global head of human resources and its global head of legal, Sylvia Hess. The article says the investigation was about sexual assault. It included the messages we have all seen.
The conclusion of the Red Bull investigation resulted in Oliver Mintzlaff sending a letter telling Horner he was being dismissed.
Horner responded by getting his lawyers to call Sylvia Hess, to tell her that Horner had the right to an independent investigation in his contract before he could be terminated. They threatened Red Bull with a High Court injunction that would be filed that afternoon preventing his dismissal.
Hess reviewed Horner's contract and decided it was a 'grey area', but rather than risk being over-ruled by the High Court, they agreed to engage a KC to investigate it independently. They fully expected the KC to agree with Hess/Salzer's investigation.
The KC did review all the content of the messages, and for some reason [the article doesn't speculate why], the KC reached the opposite conclusion. Therefore Red Bull had no choice but to keep Horner, even thought they wanted to dismiss him.
The article also suggests Horner became obsessed with FH. And it says he has only ever had two girlfriends, prior to getting into his 40's...it also makes it sound like there was no reciprocal interest from FH in Horner although it glosses over whether there had been any sexual contact. [One can only speculate if the missing messages the KC will have seen add important information].
It says Horner did call Ecclestone, who advised Horner to pay FH whatever was necessary to make the problem go away. Horner offered FH the equivalent of $650,000 (£500,000). FH refused. Ecclestone told Horner he would need to be prepared to pay a much higher amount, and it would probably need to be upwards of $5m as 'everyone has their price'. Horner refused, because he didn't want to tell his wife, and $650,000 was all he could pay without Geri getting involved.
It says Ecclestone didn't advise Horner to resign, only that it was 'an option'.
It also blames Horner for wanting to get rid of Marko. And suggests he (Horner) has a god complex. And that Horner is basically responsible for all of the de-stablisation at Red Bull between Red Bull head office, Marko and the Verstappens....
Overall, it's very spicy. I'm not saying any of this is true or false. It's just saying what I read in the magazine article.
(edited for a typo)
I can see why Horner is taking legal action, it's not giving him a nice write up. It's written mainly from a perspective as being supportive of FH, but I have to say, it seems well sourced. However, we know some people have questioned the owner of this magazine's reputation, so don't take this as fact.
He makes the following claims...
When FH made her complaint to Red Bull head office, they started a 9 week investigation by Stefan Salzer, Red Bull’s global head of human resources and its global head of legal, Sylvia Hess. The article says the investigation was about sexual assault. It included the messages we have all seen.
The conclusion of the Red Bull investigation resulted in Oliver Mintzlaff sending a letter telling Horner he was being dismissed.
Horner responded by getting his lawyers to call Sylvia Hess, to tell her that Horner had the right to an independent investigation in his contract before he could be terminated. They threatened Red Bull with a High Court injunction that would be filed that afternoon preventing his dismissal.
Hess reviewed Horner's contract and decided it was a 'grey area', but rather than risk being over-ruled by the High Court, they agreed to engage a KC to investigate it independently. They fully expected the KC to agree with Hess/Salzer's investigation.
The KC did review all the content of the messages, and for some reason [the article doesn't speculate why], the KC reached the opposite conclusion. Therefore Red Bull had no choice but to keep Horner, even thought they wanted to dismiss him.
The article also suggests Horner became obsessed with FH. And it says he has only ever had two girlfriends, prior to getting into his 40's...it also makes it sound like there was no reciprocal interest from FH in Horner although it glosses over whether there had been any sexual contact. [One can only speculate if the missing messages the KC will have seen add important information].
It says Horner did call Ecclestone, who advised Horner to pay FH whatever was necessary to make the problem go away. Horner offered FH the equivalent of $650,000 (£500,000). FH refused. Ecclestone told Horner he would need to be prepared to pay a much higher amount, and it would probably need to be upwards of $5m as 'everyone has their price'. Horner refused, because he didn't want to tell his wife, and $650,000 was all he could pay without Geri getting involved.
It says Ecclestone didn't advise Horner to resign, only that it was 'an option'.
It also blames Horner for wanting to get rid of Marko. And suggests he (Horner) has a god complex. And that Horner is basically responsible for all of the de-stablisation at Red Bull between Red Bull head office, Marko and the Verstappens....
Overall, it's very spicy. I'm not saying any of this is true or false. It's just saying what I read in the magazine article.
(edited for a typo)
Edited by EddieSteadyGo on Wednesday 6th March 22:46
richhead said:
Some Gump said:
They’ll drop quicker without Newey!
While Newey is a very clever guy, he is one of hundreds of enginners on the team, and he does seem to be involved it lots of other things, hes also not young and may not have the drive he once had, not sure RB would change much if he left now days.Him and Horner have built a great team, i do wander how it would change if either or both left, they have formed the team, and the team would still maybe the team
I think Newey leaving RB would be very different to when Allison left Merc.
I think Allison was missed because of the way he managed/integrated people and teams, whereas I don't get the impression Newey is like that.
So RBR might be able to cope with him leaving more than Merc did with Allison.
tele_lover said:
EddieSteadyGo, I think you mean "without Geri"
Doh, you're right, I did mean to type that!ETA : the article also blames Horner for not treating Marko/Verstappens and Newey with respect after Mateschitz's death, and saying it became all about Horner, and that he (Horner) wanted to treat them more as junior employees when he was God. I wonder if this part of the article was sourced directly from the Marko/Verstappen camp
Edited by EddieSteadyGo on Wednesday 6th March 22:40
EddieSteadyGo said:
OK... that BusinessF1 article...I've now seen a copy and, it's interesting....
I can see why Horner is taking legal action, it's not giving him a nice write up. It's written mainly from a perspective as being supportive of FH, but I have to say, it seems well sourced. However, we know some people have questioned the owner of this magazine's reputation, so don't take this as fact.
He makes the following claims...
When FH made her complaint to Red Bull head office, they started a 9 week investigation by Stefan Salzer, Red Bull’s global head of human resources and its global head of legal, Sylvia Hess. The article says the investigation was about sexual assault. It included the messages we have all seen.
The conclusion of the Red Bull investigation resulted in Oliver Mintzlaff sending a letter telling Horner was being dismissed.
Horner responded by getting his lawyers to call Sylvia Hess, to tell her that Horner had the right to an independent investigation in his contract before he could be terminated. They threatened Red Bull with a High Court injunction that would be filed that afternoon preventing his dismissal.
Hess reviewed Horner's contract and decided it was a 'grey area', but rather than risk being over-ruled by the High Court, they agreed to engage a KC to investigate it independently. They fully expected the KC to agree with Hess/Salzer's investigation.
The KC did review all the content of the messages, and for some reason [the article doesn't speculate why], the KC reached the opposite conclusion. Therefore Red Bull had no choice but to keep Horner, even thought they wanted to dismiss him.
The article also suggests Horner became obsessed with FH. And it says he has only ever had two girlfriends, prior to getting into his 40's...it also makes it sound like there was no reciprocal interest from FH in Horner although it glosses over whether there had been any sexual contact. [One can only speculate if the missing messages the KC will have seen add important information].
It says Horner did call Ecclestone, who advised Horner to pay FH whatever was necessary to make the problem go away. Horner offered FH the equivalent of $650,000 (£500,000). FH refused. Ecclestone told Horner he would need to be prepared to pay a much higher amount, and it would probably need to be upwards of $5m as 'everyone has their price'. Horner refused, because he didn't want to tell his wife, and $650,000 was all he could pay without Geri getting involved.
It says Ecclestone didn't advise Horner to resign, only that it was 'an option'.
It also blames Horner for wanting to get rid of Marko. And suggests he (Horner) has a god complex. And that Horner is basically responsible for all of the de-stablisation at Red Bull between Red Bull head office, Marko and the Verstappens....
Overall, it's very spicy. I'm not saying any of this is true or false. It's just saying what I read in the magazine article.
(edited for a typo)
It'll be interesting to perhaps at some point learn if any of it's true! I can see why Horner is taking legal action, it's not giving him a nice write up. It's written mainly from a perspective as being supportive of FH, but I have to say, it seems well sourced. However, we know some people have questioned the owner of this magazine's reputation, so don't take this as fact.
He makes the following claims...
When FH made her complaint to Red Bull head office, they started a 9 week investigation by Stefan Salzer, Red Bull’s global head of human resources and its global head of legal, Sylvia Hess. The article says the investigation was about sexual assault. It included the messages we have all seen.
The conclusion of the Red Bull investigation resulted in Oliver Mintzlaff sending a letter telling Horner was being dismissed.
Horner responded by getting his lawyers to call Sylvia Hess, to tell her that Horner had the right to an independent investigation in his contract before he could be terminated. They threatened Red Bull with a High Court injunction that would be filed that afternoon preventing his dismissal.
Hess reviewed Horner's contract and decided it was a 'grey area', but rather than risk being over-ruled by the High Court, they agreed to engage a KC to investigate it independently. They fully expected the KC to agree with Hess/Salzer's investigation.
The KC did review all the content of the messages, and for some reason [the article doesn't speculate why], the KC reached the opposite conclusion. Therefore Red Bull had no choice but to keep Horner, even thought they wanted to dismiss him.
The article also suggests Horner became obsessed with FH. And it says he has only ever had two girlfriends, prior to getting into his 40's...it also makes it sound like there was no reciprocal interest from FH in Horner although it glosses over whether there had been any sexual contact. [One can only speculate if the missing messages the KC will have seen add important information].
It says Horner did call Ecclestone, who advised Horner to pay FH whatever was necessary to make the problem go away. Horner offered FH the equivalent of $650,000 (£500,000). FH refused. Ecclestone told Horner he would need to be prepared to pay a much higher amount, and it would probably need to be upwards of $5m as 'everyone has their price'. Horner refused, because he didn't want to tell his wife, and $650,000 was all he could pay without Geri getting involved.
It says Ecclestone didn't advise Horner to resign, only that it was 'an option'.
It also blames Horner for wanting to get rid of Marko. And suggests he (Horner) has a god complex. And that Horner is basically responsible for all of the de-stablisation at Red Bull between Red Bull head office, Marko and the Verstappens....
Overall, it's very spicy. I'm not saying any of this is true or false. It's just saying what I read in the magazine article.
(edited for a typo)
Edited by EddieSteadyGo on Wednesday 6th March 22:36
18:30 tomorrow, Horner in the hot seat for the press conference. Should also be interesting.. or at least, incredibly awkward.
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