Will Lewis ever win #8?
Discussion
Chamon_Lee said:
HustleRussell said:
InformationSuperHighway said:
Sad is this is to say.. you can really sense that Lewis's days are up.
He and Mercedes dominance is clearly now in the past. He has lost his mojo.
What a shame he didn't get number 8 last year and then could be done with it all.
Amazing how quickly people will depreciate Mercedes and Hamilton. Two difficult weekends and all hope is lost. This is the team which won eight constructors' on the trot over two major regulations changes, and arguably the best driver ever. He and Mercedes dominance is clearly now in the past. He has lost his mojo.
What a shame he didn't get number 8 last year and then could be done with it all.
At this stage they've got clearly the third fastest car and no developing threat from behind. If you are pessimistic about their chances they are coming 3rd by default. If you are optimistic they still have a chance of winning the thing.
Not to mention things are clean for now between Leclerc and max. Give it a few races for things to heat up.
Whilst I have a hunch that he won't win another title; it's far, far too early to be writing him or Mercedes off after two races.
I'd love to know the rationale for Mercedes' dominance being "clearly now in the past"
For reference, I recall Red Bull turning up for the 2009 season and associated rule changes with a good car but certainly not one that dominated - after two races they had 1.5 points. They did OK over the following 5 years.....
paulguitar said:
I saw some comments on Twitter saying that the reason Max and Charles have had no issues is that "Lewis was the problem, pass it on'.
We really appear to be living in an age where some people simply invent their own reality. It's quite worrying, really.
I've found that all a little odd. I mean Lewis had some good clean fights with folks last year, Alonso and Perez and then K Mag on sunday.... That was all clean...We really appear to be living in an age where some people simply invent their own reality. It's quite worrying, really.
davidd said:
paulguitar said:
I saw some comments on Twitter saying that the reason Max and Charles have had no issues is that "Lewis was the problem, pass it on'.
We really appear to be living in an age where some people simply invent their own reality. It's quite worrying, really.
I've found that all a little odd. I mean Lewis had some good clean fights with folks last year, Alonso and Perez and then K Mag on sunday.... That was all clean...We really appear to be living in an age where some people simply invent their own reality. It's quite worrying, really.
All that's different is so far in 2022 is that Max is choosing to obey the rules.
davidd said:
paulguitar said:
I saw some comments on Twitter saying that the reason Max and Charles have had no issues is that "Lewis was the problem, pass it on'.
We really appear to be living in an age where some people simply invent their own reality. It's quite worrying, really.
I've found that all a little odd. I mean Lewis had some good clean fights with folks last year, Alonso and Perez and then K Mag on sunday.... That was all clean...We really appear to be living in an age where some people simply invent their own reality. It's quite worrying, really.
paulguitar said:
davidd said:
paulguitar said:
I saw some comments on Twitter saying that the reason Max and Charles have had no issues is that "Lewis was the problem, pass it on'.
We really appear to be living in an age where some people simply invent their own reality. It's quite worrying, really.
I've found that all a little odd. I mean Lewis had some good clean fights with folks last year, Alonso and Perez and then K Mag on sunday.... That was all clean...We really appear to be living in an age where some people simply invent their own reality. It's quite worrying, really.
All that's different is so far in 2022 is that Max is choosing to obey the rules.
Let's see how calm and collected Max is towards the tail end of the season when every point counts. I say that not as a criticism of Max persay, rather that in any competitive event it tends to be late in the day that tempers start to fray and discipline takes a backseat.
paulguitar said:
It's just as clear as day that what's changed is that, so far at least, Max is not being a dick. He's racing fairly and with respect, which he repeatedly failed to do with Lewis last season. In fact, it's precisely because of his behaviour that the rule clarification was issued.
All that's different is so far in 2022 is that Max is choosing to obey the rules.
I wonder how long that will last if things start getting tastyAll that's different is so far in 2022 is that Max is choosing to obey the rules.
MustangGT said:
PhilAsia said:
C'mon Lewis....
.....empty your pockets..!!
????? I have no idea what you are trying to say here......empty your pockets..!!
It was a scintillating piece of comedic genius in response to this: "..... we're just 2 races in a 23-race season, so it might well be that come December he will have it in his pocket....." Sort of thing shoplifters (with a WDC trophy in their pocket) hear all the time.
edit: or tangental b
ks...jsf said:
wpa1975 said:
paulguitar said:
It's just as clear as day that what's changed is that, so far at least, Max is not being a dick. He's racing fairly and with respect, which he repeatedly failed to do with Lewis last season. In fact, it's precisely because of his behaviour that the rule clarification was issued.
All that's different is so far in 2022 is that Max is choosing to obey the rules.
I wonder how long that will last if things start getting tastyAll that's different is so far in 2022 is that Max is choosing to obey the rules.
It was probably a conscious decision by the Verstappen camp to take this approach to Hamilton seeing as the objective was very much to usurp him specifically. Thinking of and referring to a competitor as 'the other driver' or 'my team-mate' is a common strategy to detach emotion and sentiment from competition- to view them as a kind of faceless Stig-like entity, or like an A.I. like in a video game. That’d explain some of Verstappen’s moves anyway.
Also I am reminded of something Prost said of Senna- Senna didn’t want to simply ‘beat’ prost, he set out to ‘humiliate’ him. Verstappen loves an audacious outside pass like what he attempted at Monza last year. To a driver, being passed on the outside is humiliating on some level. Verstappen would’ve been chalking up points on this score every time Hamilton yielded in wheel-to-wheel situations.
I think Verstappen will have consciously or unconsciously adjusted his approach at the beginning of this season. He did unseat Hamilton- mission accomplished- in a very intense championship battle. This season the championship ‘rivalry’ is yet to emerge between two drivers. The sporting media is already building up a Verstappen vs. Leclerc narrative as last year’s battle will have been like crack cocaine to them, but there is no evidence of any personal rivalry manifesting yet.
Verstappen is part of a cohort of young drivers who all came up together. He is probably friends with them until he is locked into a championship battle against one of them individually. Hamilton was relatively close with Rosberg for many years until...
Hamiltons the GOAT, Verstappen wants that title for himself. It's natural that Verstappen was extra aggressive with him and vice versa, it's the law of the jungle. Neither could be seen to be beaten by the other.
Verstappen will be slightly more relaxed now with a championship* under his belt and having seemingly beat the best. But things will heat up considerably between Leclerc/Verstappen if they find themselves in a championship battle, could get quite spicy.
With regards to Lewis' 8th, I don't see it happening, too many hungry young drivers in decent cars around. Hope i'm wrong.
Verstappen will be slightly more relaxed now with a championship* under his belt and having seemingly beat the best. But things will heat up considerably between Leclerc/Verstappen if they find themselves in a championship battle, could get quite spicy.
With regards to Lewis' 8th, I don't see it happening, too many hungry young drivers in decent cars around. Hope i'm wrong.
paulguitar said:
It's just as clear as day that what's changed is that, so far at least, Max is not being a dick. He's racing fairly and with respect, which he repeatedly failed to do with Lewis last season. In fact, it's precisely because of his behaviour that the rule clarification was issued.
All that's different is so far in 2022 is that Max is choosing to obey the rules.
I dunno, it's easy to forget Max raced fairly plenty of times last season.All that's different is so far in 2022 is that Max is choosing to obey the rules.
Put him back in the situation where he has a championship lead over Leclerc and they're steaming into a hairpin under DRS, I expect the same results.
Kevin Cozner said:
Listening to the team by team on Midweek Motorsport, it does feel like a changing of the guard this season with Leclerc seemingly ready to fulfill his potential and Russell getting up to speed in the Merc. I think that's it for Lewis, no 8th title.
Unless there’s a sea change in Mercedes’ fortunes, or he goes to drive for Ferrari for his last season as a box ticking thing (everyone loves Ferrari) then I think you might be right.I have never known a British driver divide opinion as much as Hamilton, most people I know who watch f1 cannot stand him, I dont know why, I think domination helps.
I dont consider him the greatest no, as for most of his career at Merc he had little or no opposition, his team mate beat him once to a title and he had very off years at McLaren when he was beaten by Button who you would never call a great.
I dont know why he is so disliked, maybe just his manner, I am aware of people who have worked at McLaren that despise the man, but that could be said of numerous champions.
I hope he does not win another title, he has won enough and done so at a canter in cars that are not that interesting to watch and with a huge advantage. yes you have to take advantage of all that, and he has, he is a magnificent racing driver and deserves his success, but I hope he never wins again, unless he comes back frmo behind and takes on a rival and wins in a slower car. The he is deserving of GOAT status
I dont consider him the greatest no, as for most of his career at Merc he had little or no opposition, his team mate beat him once to a title and he had very off years at McLaren when he was beaten by Button who you would never call a great.
I dont know why he is so disliked, maybe just his manner, I am aware of people who have worked at McLaren that despise the man, but that could be said of numerous champions.
I hope he does not win another title, he has won enough and done so at a canter in cars that are not that interesting to watch and with a huge advantage. yes you have to take advantage of all that, and he has, he is a magnificent racing driver and deserves his success, but I hope he never wins again, unless he comes back frmo behind and takes on a rival and wins in a slower car. The he is deserving of GOAT status
LukeBrown66 said:
I have never known a British driver divide opinion as much as Hamilton, most people I know who watch f1 cannot stand him, I dont know why, I think domination helps.
I dont consider him the greatest no, as for most of his career at Merc he had little or no opposition, his team mate beat him once to a title and he had very off years at McLaren when he was beaten by Button who you would never call a great.
I dont know why he is so disliked, maybe just his manner, I am aware of people who have worked at McLaren that despise the man, but that could be said of numerous champions.
I hope he does not win another title, he has won enough and done so at a canter in cars that are not that interesting to watch and with a huge advantage. yes you have to take advantage of all that, and he has, he is a magnificent racing driver and deserves his success, but I hope he never wins again, ....unless he comes back from behind and takes on a rival and wins in a slower car. Then he is deserving of GOAT status
You weren't watching Abu Dhabi and 2021 "then"...??? I dont consider him the greatest no, as for most of his career at Merc he had little or no opposition, his team mate beat him once to a title and he had very off years at McLaren when he was beaten by Button who you would never call a great.
I dont know why he is so disliked, maybe just his manner, I am aware of people who have worked at McLaren that despise the man, but that could be said of numerous champions.
I hope he does not win another title, he has won enough and done so at a canter in cars that are not that interesting to watch and with a huge advantage. yes you have to take advantage of all that, and he has, he is a magnificent racing driver and deserves his success, but I hope he never wins again, ....unless he comes back from behind and takes on a rival and wins in a slower car. Then he is deserving of GOAT status
He is the most talented driver the UK has produced.
Even if you ignore the overwhelming statistics his racecraft is second to none.
He is also a clean driver who makes very few mistakes.
The bloke beat Alonso, at the time the most likely driver to beat many records, in his first season in F1.
He should have two more championships if not for FIA interference.
He dealt with a very strong cheating Ferrari, he was so good Vettel lost his mind trying to keep up.
Rosberg was a very good driver, it took so much out of him to take on Lewis he promptly retired after winning his championship.
Bottas is a very quick qualifier in particular, he beat him regularly.
Verstappen, without doubt the quickest of his generation couldn't beat him despite having the fastest car for most of the season. The mental strength required to beat a dirty driver like Max in a faster car is extremely impressive. The bloke who stole the championship from Lewis lost his job in the fallout despite the concerted attempt by the establishment to gas light everyone who understood what happened in AD. Lewis just used his common sense and let them stew, he didnt need to say a word and even that fried many minds.
I genuinely am baffled by people who dont rate Lewis, the bloke has every aspect of driving an F1 car and winning championships nailed.
The kid done good, even after his F1 adventure is over, he will likely excel in his other interests, especially with young adults trying to make their mark in the world.
Even if you ignore the overwhelming statistics his racecraft is second to none.
He is also a clean driver who makes very few mistakes.
The bloke beat Alonso, at the time the most likely driver to beat many records, in his first season in F1.
He should have two more championships if not for FIA interference.
He dealt with a very strong cheating Ferrari, he was so good Vettel lost his mind trying to keep up.
Rosberg was a very good driver, it took so much out of him to take on Lewis he promptly retired after winning his championship.
Bottas is a very quick qualifier in particular, he beat him regularly.
Verstappen, without doubt the quickest of his generation couldn't beat him despite having the fastest car for most of the season. The mental strength required to beat a dirty driver like Max in a faster car is extremely impressive. The bloke who stole the championship from Lewis lost his job in the fallout despite the concerted attempt by the establishment to gas light everyone who understood what happened in AD. Lewis just used his common sense and let them stew, he didnt need to say a word and even that fried many minds.
I genuinely am baffled by people who dont rate Lewis, the bloke has every aspect of driving an F1 car and winning championships nailed.
The kid done good, even after his F1 adventure is over, he will likely excel in his other interests, especially with young adults trying to make their mark in the world.
jsf said:
He is the most talented driver the UK has produced.
Even if you ignore the overwhelming statistics his racecraft is second to none.
He is also a clean driver who makes very few mistakes.
The bloke beat Alonso, at the time the most likely driver to beat many records, in his first season in F1.
He should have two more championships if not for FIA interference.
He dealt with a very strong cheating Ferrari, he was so good Vettel lost his mind trying to keep up.
Rosberg was a very good driver, it took so much out of him to take on Lewis he promptly retired after winning his championship.
Bottas is a very quick qualifier in particular, he beat him regularly.
Verstappen, without doubt the quickest of his generation couldn't beat him despite having the fastest car for most of the season. The mental strength required to beat a dirty driver like Max in a faster car is extremely impressive. The bloke who stole the championship from Lewis lost his job in the fallout despite the concerted attempt by the establishment to gas light everyone who understood what happened in AD. Lewis just used his common sense and let them stew, he didnt need to say a word and even that fried many minds.
I genuinely am baffled by people who dont rate Lewis, the bloke has every aspect of driving an F1 car and winning championships nailed.
The kid done good, even after his F1 adventure is over, he will likely excel in his other interests, especially with young adults trying to make their mark in the world.
Thank you. Saved me from going through his many (often record-breaking) achievements.Even if you ignore the overwhelming statistics his racecraft is second to none.
He is also a clean driver who makes very few mistakes.
The bloke beat Alonso, at the time the most likely driver to beat many records, in his first season in F1.
He should have two more championships if not for FIA interference.
He dealt with a very strong cheating Ferrari, he was so good Vettel lost his mind trying to keep up.
Rosberg was a very good driver, it took so much out of him to take on Lewis he promptly retired after winning his championship.
Bottas is a very quick qualifier in particular, he beat him regularly.
Verstappen, without doubt the quickest of his generation couldn't beat him despite having the fastest car for most of the season. The mental strength required to beat a dirty driver like Max in a faster car is extremely impressive. The bloke who stole the championship from Lewis lost his job in the fallout despite the concerted attempt by the establishment to gas light everyone who understood what happened in AD. Lewis just used his common sense and let them stew, he didnt need to say a word and even that fried many minds.
I genuinely am baffled by people who dont rate Lewis, the bloke has every aspect of driving an F1 car and winning championships nailed.
The kid done good, even after his F1 adventure is over, he will likely excel in his other interests, especially with young adults trying to make their mark in the world.
It is ok to dislike his personality, but it is a tall order to dismiss his racing accomplishments.
jsf said:
He is the most talented driver the UK has produced.
Even if you ignore the overwhelming statistics his racecraft is second to none.
He is also a clean driver who makes very few mistakes.
The bloke beat Alonso, at the time the most likely driver to beat many records, in his first season in F1.
He should have two more championships if not for FIA interference.
He dealt with a very strong cheating Ferrari, he was so good Vettel lost his mind trying to keep up.
Rosberg was a very good driver, it took so much out of him to take on Lewis he promptly retired after winning his championship.
Bottas is a very quick qualifier in particular, he beat him regularly.
Verstappen, without doubt the quickest of his generation couldn't beat him despite having the fastest car for most of the season. The mental strength required to beat a dirty driver like Max in a faster car is extremely impressive. The bloke who stole the championship from Lewis lost his job in the fallout despite the concerted attempt by the establishment to gas light everyone who understood what happened in AD. Lewis just used his common sense and let them stew, he didnt need to say a word and even that fried many minds.
I genuinely am baffled by people who dont rate Lewis, the bloke has every aspect of driving an F1 car and winning championships nailed.
The kid done good, even after his F1 adventure is over, he will likely excel in his other interests, especially with young adults trying to make their mark in the world.
Best post on the whole thread, I doubt I could have summed it up so succinctly.Even if you ignore the overwhelming statistics his racecraft is second to none.
He is also a clean driver who makes very few mistakes.
The bloke beat Alonso, at the time the most likely driver to beat many records, in his first season in F1.
He should have two more championships if not for FIA interference.
He dealt with a very strong cheating Ferrari, he was so good Vettel lost his mind trying to keep up.
Rosberg was a very good driver, it took so much out of him to take on Lewis he promptly retired after winning his championship.
Bottas is a very quick qualifier in particular, he beat him regularly.
Verstappen, without doubt the quickest of his generation couldn't beat him despite having the fastest car for most of the season. The mental strength required to beat a dirty driver like Max in a faster car is extremely impressive. The bloke who stole the championship from Lewis lost his job in the fallout despite the concerted attempt by the establishment to gas light everyone who understood what happened in AD. Lewis just used his common sense and let them stew, he didnt need to say a word and even that fried many minds.
I genuinely am baffled by people who dont rate Lewis, the bloke has every aspect of driving an F1 car and winning championships nailed.
The kid done good, even after his F1 adventure is over, he will likely excel in his other interests, especially with young adults trying to make their mark in the world.
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