Will Lewis ever win #8?

[Pflanzgarten]

Siao said:

Pflanzgarten said:

The comparisons to George simply mark out the posters of not having a clue about F1.

Can you elaborate or just sticking to inflammatory posts?

As other posters have said, the two Mercedes didn’t even set times in Qually this week. They both did warm up laps, George a slightly quicker one than Lewis that then became their times due to the red flag catching them out.

The Mercedes couldn’t do a single lap quick enough.

Mercedes have explained that with little to lose, Lewis’ side of the garage are trying extreme set ups in the chance they can luck into a performance gain versus George taking the traditional route.

That’s how far from understanding the problem Mercedes are.

[Hol]

mk1coopers said:

People have to remember that although the car isn’t good to drive we don’t know if George considers it an improvement over last year Williams, it might be a step forward for him, as much as it’s a step backward for Lewis

I haven’t read anywhere, that he his remarked about it being a step up on his Williams, and quite frankly, I would be surprised if he did think that considering the aero issues.

[Siao]

Pflanzgarten said:

Siao said:

Pflanzgarten said:

The comparisons to George simply mark out the posters of not having a clue about F1.

Can you elaborate or just sticking to inflammatory posts?

As other posters have said, the two Mercedes didn’t even set times in Qually this week. They both did warm up laps, George a slightly quicker one than Lewis that then became their times due to the red flag catching them out.

The Mercedes couldn’t do a single lap quick enough.

Mercedes have explained that with little to lose, Lewis’ side of the garage are trying extreme set ups in the chance they can luck into a performance gain versus George taking the traditional route.

That’s how far from understanding the problem Mercedes are.

Thanks for the reply, I agree with all of it. I just don't think that people thinking that Russell is doing a better job are clueless necessarily, both things may be true simultaneously.

[Siao]

Muzzer79 said:

Siao said:

Pflanzgarten said:

The comparisons to George simply mark out the posters of not having a clue about F1.

Can you elaborate or just sticking to inflammatory posts?

In my opinion, it's naive at least to look at the performance of the two cars and conclude that George is 'beating' Lewis.

The team focus at present is on fixing the issues with the car. Performance is a by-product of that.

George may have had a more favourable set-up, Lewis may be trying new parts, George may be trying new parts.

It's highly simplistic to conclude that George is faster than Lewis due to the results of 4 races, combined with the performance status of Mercedes.

True, it is very early and very simplistic. But there is also the possibility that Russell is doing a better job so far. Obviously Hamilton didn't forget how to drive overnight, but to brush aside Russell's solid job so far and only consider how bad it is not working for Hamilton feels also wrong.

[Hol]

g4ry13 said:

Muzzer79 said:

Siao said:

Pflanzgarten said:

The comparisons to George simply mark out the posters of not having a clue about F1.

Can you elaborate or just sticking to inflammatory posts?

In my opinion, it's naive at least to look at the performance of the two cars and conclude that George is 'beating' Lewis.

The team focus at present is on fixing the issues with the car. Performance is a by-product of that.

George may have had a more favourable set-up, Lewis may be trying new parts, George may be trying new parts.

It's highly simplistic to conclude that George is faster than Lewis due to the results of 4 races, combined with the performance status of Mercedes.

So there's a chance Lewis wasn't faster than Valtteri for all those seasons because we don't know whether Lewis had the same parts and more favourable set-up?

As spectators we can only base our judgement by the results we see on track. Chances are that the other car on the grid which is most equal to your car is going to be your teammate. So it's not unreasonable to compare one with the other.

I guess there’s a chance, that you could be right, insofar as there’s also a chance, that Ferrari match number the of PSI in their front left tyre, with the number of red jelly beans in a random packet.

Sadly, there’s no evidence of that happening, but there’s a chance that it could and a chance that it might not. Chances are that it could be right or wrong. If you wanted to chance it.

Do you feel lucky?

[Muzzer79]

g4ry13 said:

Muzzer79 said:

Siao said:

Pflanzgarten said:

The comparisons to George simply mark out the posters of not having a clue about F1.

Can you elaborate or just sticking to inflammatory posts?

In my opinion, it's naive at least to look at the performance of the two cars and conclude that George is 'beating' Lewis.

The team focus at present is on fixing the issues with the car. Performance is a by-product of that.

George may have had a more favourable set-up, Lewis may be trying new parts, George may be trying new parts.

It's highly simplistic to conclude that George is faster than Lewis due to the results of 4 races, combined with the performance status of Mercedes.

So there's a chance Lewis wasn't faster than Valtteri for all those seasons because we don't know whether Lewis had the same parts and more favourable set-up?

As spectators we can only base our judgement by the results we see on track. Chances are that the other car on the grid which is most equal to your car is going to be your teammate. So it's not unreasonable to compare one with the other.

Mercedes have, for the last 8 years, been focusing on honing performance. There was no need to 'fix' the car, because it was the fastest. You're just focused on exploiting that performance.

It's therefore more of a straight fight between Bottas/Rosberg and Hamilton.

When you're trying to fix setup issues and fix flaws in the design, you're spending time testing solutions and different configurations because you don't know what's wrong with it. It's therefore less of a straight fight as both cars are trying different things.

George has done well. He's made the most of his opportunity and has performed great. But it's too simplistic to say he's faster than Lewis, in the situation they're in and on the results of 4 early-season races.

[MustangGT]

Muzzer79 said:

Mercedes have, for the last 8 years, been focusing on honing performance. There was no need to 'fix' the car, because it was the fastest. You're just focused on exploiting that performance.

It's therefore more of a straight fight between Bottas/Rosberg and Hamilton.

When you're trying to fix setup issues and fix flaws in the design, you're spending time testing solutions and different configurations because you don't know what's wrong with it. It's therefore less of a straight fight as both cars are trying different things.

George has done well. He's made the most of his opportunity and has performed great. But it's too simplistic to say he's faster than Lewis, in the situation they're in and on the results of 4 early-season races.

This. George was also lucky with the safety car the other week, that moved him ahead of Lewis. This week Alpine really 'fixed' Lewis' race with the unsafe release of Ocon. That's racing, George has had a lot of luck this early in the season.

[g4ry13]

Muzzer79 said:

g4ry13 said:

Muzzer79 said:

Siao said:

Pflanzgarten said:

The comparisons to George simply mark out the posters of not having a clue about F1.

Can you elaborate or just sticking to inflammatory posts?

In my opinion, it's naive at least to look at the performance of the two cars and conclude that George is 'beating' Lewis.

The team focus at present is on fixing the issues with the car. Performance is a by-product of that.

George may have had a more favourable set-up, Lewis may be trying new parts, George may be trying new parts.

It's highly simplistic to conclude that George is faster than Lewis due to the results of 4 races, combined with the performance status of Mercedes.

So there's a chance Lewis wasn't faster than Valtteri for all those seasons because we don't know whether Lewis had the same parts and more favourable set-up?

As spectators we can only base our judgement by the results we see on track. Chances are that the other car on the grid which is most equal to your car is going to be your teammate. So it's not unreasonable to compare one with the other.

Mercedes have, for the last 8 years, been focusing on honing performance. There was no need to 'fix' the car, because it was the fastest. You're just focused on exploiting that performance.

It's therefore more of a straight fight between Bottas/Rosberg and Hamilton.

When you're trying to fix setup issues and fix flaws in the design, you're spending time testing solutions and different configurations because you don't know what's wrong with it. It's therefore less of a straight fight as both cars are trying different things.

George has done well. He's made the most of his opportunity and has performed great. But it's too simplistic to say he's faster than Lewis, in the situation they're in and on the results of 4 early-season races.

I have little doubt that George will finish the season with more points than Lewis. Does that necessarily mean he's faster than Lewis? No, and we'll never really know due to all the variables and unknowns we have as spectators.

But it does mean that with the package available, that either it suits George's style more. Or alternatively, that George is able to adapt his driving style better to work with the car.

[cuprabob]

g4ry13 said:

I have little doubt that George will finish the season with more points than Lewis. Does that necessarily mean he's faster than Lewis? No, and we'll never really know due to all the variables and unknowns we have as spectators.

But it does mean that with the package available, that either it suits George's style more. Or alternatively, that George is able to adapt his driving style better to work with the car.

You are of course correct but I don't remember Vettel being given the same benefit of the doubt when Daniel was beating him in his first year at Red Bull

[grumpynuts]

Russell is making a better fist of adapting to a poor car, that is totally clear.Hamilton hasn't had the experience of having to drag a result from a terrible car, Russell has plenty of practise.Hamilton has been spoilt during his F1 career in having a great car season after season, so dragging any result you can is alien to him.Once he gets his head round that he'll be fine.How far Russell will be up the road by then is a different question.
Cream always rises to the top, lets see how good Hammy really is,time to earn his 40million bucks salary.

[heebeegeetee]

grumpynuts said:

Russell is making a better fist of adapting to a poor car, that is totally clear.Hamilton hasn't had the experience of having to drag a result from a terrible car, Russell has plenty of practise.Hamilton has been spoilt during his F1 career in having a great car season after season, so dragging any result you can is alien to him.Once he gets his head round that he'll be fine.How far Russell will be up the road by then is a different question.
Cream always rises to the top, lets see how good Hammy really is,time to earn his 40million bucks salary.

What a ridiculous post.

[HustleRussell]

It might be too early to draw comparison between Hamilton and Russell, but I think its fair to say that Russell is doing a very impressive job.

[Pflanzgarten]

grumpynuts said:

Russell is making a better fist of adapting to a poor car, that is totally clear.Hamilton hasn't had the experience of having to drag a result from a terrible car, Russell has plenty of practise.Hamilton has been spoilt during his F1 career in having a great car season after season, so dragging any result you can is alien to him.Once he gets his head round that he'll be fine.How far Russell will be up the road by then is a different question.
Cream always rises to the top, lets see how good Hammy really is,time to earn his 40million bucks salary.

[Jasandjules]

grumpynuts said:

Russell is making a better fist of adapting to a poor car, that is totally clear.

Hi there, always nice to see people watching their first F1 season.

[pquinn]

Problem is some people have loved attributing all the success to someone being a great driver (and their teammate obviously being slower because they're crap) and are now seeking all sorts of excuses when the situation changed. You look utterly ridiculous if you've spent years claiming all the good stuff was the driver not the car, then pivot to putting all the bad stuff on the car not the driver.

We'll see how the season settles out, plenty left to go. And it really hasn't been *that* bad so far for Mercedes - plenty of teams and drivers would be ecstatic at having their current level of 'failure'.

[anonymous-user]

pquinn said:

Problem is some people have loved attributing all the success to someone being a great driver (and their teammate obviously being slower because they're crap) and are now seeking all sorts of excuses when the situation changed. You look utterly ridiculous if you've spent years claiming all the good stuff was the driver not the car, then pivot to putting all the bad stuff on the car not the driver.

We'll see how the season settles out, plenty left to go. And it really hasn't been *that* bad so far for Mercedes - plenty of teams and drivers would be ecstatic at having their current level of 'failure'.

Anyone who knows their arse from their elbow knows that without a competitive car in F1 you cant compete for championships or race wins, unless something bizarre happens.

I don't know anyone who has said the oposite.

When one team dominates, its a fight between team mates that counts, when more than one car is up front, its usually the top drivers from each team that competes.

In both circumstances, Lewis has been that person, but even when not in a position to compete for a championship, he has won at least one race in the season, the only driver in F1 history to do that.

[Fundoreen]

What we haven't really seen yet. Verstappen and Hamilton used to run away and be 30-40 seconds up the road by half distance. Perez and bottas couldn't run those times in the same car.
Even Russell is a long way back in no mans land. Would LH in the same position close up to the leaders more?
Nearly 20 races to find out.
But it will be a big ask to find enough performance to overturn this gap to the front.
A lot of people forget that these drivers are at the top as they love racing. Its not just about passing some exam and getting a cerificate which is the sort of dross that informs most peoples lives.
If LH has a car he can race with against those at the front he will be happy even if he only wins some races this year and not the title.

[anonymous-user]

fesuvious said:

That porpoising;

Is it possible that if any driver had a weakness in a disc or vertebrae then it could cause real discomfort?

The vertical movement is going to highlight any weakness quite quickly in a manner many drivers won't have experienced before.

Especially in the neck.

It's worth a ponder. Could Lewis be suffering in an entirely unexpected way with the bobbing?

It could put someone out for a while.

I have a feeling the regs have cocked up a bit here, they have very defined boxes to work within, they may have baked in a serious aero instability problem.

Even the best cars are shaking the drivers when you go onboard. It's a really bad look for the pinnacle of motorsport.

[g4ry13]

jsf said:

fesuvious said:

That porpoising;

Is it possible that if any driver had a weakness in a disc or vertebrae then it could cause real discomfort?

The vertical movement is going to highlight any weakness quite quickly in a manner many drivers won't have experienced before.

Especially in the neck.

It's worth a ponder. Could Lewis be suffering in an entirely unexpected way with the bobbing?

It could put someone out for a while.

I have a feeling the regs have cocked up a bit here, they have very defined boxes to work within, they may have baked in a serious aero instability problem.

Even the best cars are shaking the drivers when you go onboard. It's a really bad look for the pinnacle of motorsport.

The cars look more alive and more of a challenge to drive. It's not ideal, but it's better than the era when everything looked so smooth and the cars didn't pose much of a challenge to the drivers.

[Pflanzgarten]

jsf said:

fesuvious said:

That porpoising;

Is it possible that if any driver had a weakness in a disc or vertebrae then it could cause real discomfort?

The vertical movement is going to highlight any weakness quite quickly in a manner many drivers won't have experienced before.

Especially in the neck.

It's worth a ponder. Could Lewis be suffering in an entirely unexpected way with the bobbing?

It could put someone out for a while.

I have a feeling the regs have cocked up a bit here, they have very defined boxes to work within, they may have baked in a serious aero instability problem.

Even the best cars are shaking the drivers when you go onboard. It's a really bad look for the pinnacle of motorsport.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/russell-had-back-and-chest-pains-from-imola-porpoising/