Official 2022 Spanish Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***
Poll: Official 2022 Spanish Grand Prix Thread ***SPOILERS***
Total Members Polled: 190
Discussion
Great event. A real shame for Leclerc as he was just on another level in that race up until that point.
Congrats to Mercedes as well being able to 'see' the 8th position for Lewis on lap 1 after the incident!
Next up, Monaco baby! Whilst the race can be a bit tedious the whole build up and qualifying are outstanding. Just hope this current generation of F1 cars go well round there..
Congrats to Mercedes as well being able to 'see' the 8th position for Lewis on lap 1 after the incident!
Next up, Monaco baby! Whilst the race can be a bit tedious the whole build up and qualifying are outstanding. Just hope this current generation of F1 cars go well round there..
GTO-3R said:
Yazza54 said:
God this is getting tedious
He would've won regardless
He would have beaten Leclerc if he didn't have to retire?He would've won regardless
Ferrari had pace left in the locker, for sure.
Blib said:
IF Mercedes are about to get really competitive, with 18(?) races left Russell is 'only' 34 points behind Verstappen.
This could get extremely interesting.....
Yep, it's still very early days and we've seen bigger points swings later in the championship before.This could get extremely interesting.....
It remains to be seen how much more they can get from the fixed Merc too. Perhaps it's now as good as it can ever be, or perhaps this is just the start of unlocking the car. Time will tell on that front... At very least I expect they must have been a little compromised by the heat yesterday - it's a very tightly packaged car.
TypeRTim said:
The benefit is quite simple really.
They have a car they still don't fully understand, with problems they can only recreate on track. They just shipped a load of new parts on the car.
They needed the mileage of BOTH cars in a full race distance to evaluate whether those parts made a difference. A 7 time WDC and the supposed GOAT should know that any mileage in this era of cost caps and testing limits is golden mileage.
At this stage, saving the engine would be a secondary priority to understanding the aero and making sure that the fixes they are shipping correlate on track to the numbers they are expecting, primarily as this will help development of not just this years car, but next years too (and all the following ones until the next major aero shake up).
The fact that they were basically free to run whatever strategy they wanted without fear of really losing significant positions or places allowed him to rescue a brilliant result considering the circumstances.
Even K-mag stayed out circling around plumb last for most of the race. Data is the most valuable commodity, especially around a track they have already driven around in a previous configuration of the car(s). They need to assess progress.
The benefit is obvious, obviously. The real issue is simply a cost/benefit question. They have a car they still don't fully understand, with problems they can only recreate on track. They just shipped a load of new parts on the car.
They needed the mileage of BOTH cars in a full race distance to evaluate whether those parts made a difference. A 7 time WDC and the supposed GOAT should know that any mileage in this era of cost caps and testing limits is golden mileage.
At this stage, saving the engine would be a secondary priority to understanding the aero and making sure that the fixes they are shipping correlate on track to the numbers they are expecting, primarily as this will help development of not just this years car, but next years too (and all the following ones until the next major aero shake up).
The fact that they were basically free to run whatever strategy they wanted without fear of really losing significant positions or places allowed him to rescue a brilliant result considering the circumstances.
Even K-mag stayed out circling around plumb last for most of the race. Data is the most valuable commodity, especially around a track they have already driven around in a previous configuration of the car(s). They need to assess progress.
There are many positives of having the car on-circuit running around. The costs are, on the other hand, significant.
LH took a lot out of his engine during the race. As we all know, following another car, out-braking, sudden changes of direction, are all work. GR was complaining of temperature problems – and we all know the damage high temperatures can inflict on engines and ancillaries, which includes a 7xWDC and GOAT – when running in clear air and these engines are as tied to mileage as the fuel tanks on the cars. Take more out of it one race, and it shortens its life.
There are three FP sessions at each race. Add the hours up.
As Team Merc saw it, 8th was probable, so 4 points. Some teams would have been ecstatic at the possibility. However, if it means LH starting from the back in a future race he might well have a chance of winning, that’s considerably more than 4 points, and don’t forget, starting from the back shortens the life-expectancy in mileage of the engine.
The equation was anything but simple. It’s not as if I’ve exhausted the negatives. There are more.
Did they learn anything from LH’s drive? I expect so, if only to discover how improved the car is, but I doubt they would have needed both, or even BOTH, cars racing to discover that.
LH went from over 50 seconds behind Russell to almost sitting on his gearbox. That cost him. Was it worth it? We, and we includes you, have no idea. The 7xWDC didn’t know at the time and was forced to ask. If 8th and 4 points was all that he’d get from trashing his engine, I’d guess that his confusion was well justified.
From an entirely selfish point of view, his drive added excitement to the race, although it would have been better if we’d seen a few more of his overtakes on TV. The race was fun and, on balance, I reckon LH might have felt it worthwhile, right up until he was told a DNF was possible. Was it engine related? If it was fuel related, then that weighs into the equation on the negative side. Going through the field uses up fuel and he was given just enough at the start to see his through the race from 6th. Did they take that into account? So not, in any way, shape or form, a simple decision, even for a 7xWDC and GOAT.
Kevin’s car was a mobile billboard making the comparison flawed.
(I’m not suggesting LH is the GOAT. I think such accolades rather silly. I only used it because the poster used the term, albeit modified.)
Derek Smith said:
TypeRTim said:
The benefit is quite simple really.
They have a car they still don't fully understand, with problems they can only recreate on track. They just shipped a load of new parts on the car.
They needed the mileage of BOTH cars in a full race distance to evaluate whether those parts made a difference. A 7 time WDC and the supposed GOAT should know that any mileage in this era of cost caps and testing limits is golden mileage.
At this stage, saving the engine would be a secondary priority to understanding the aero and making sure that the fixes they are shipping correlate on track to the numbers they are expecting, primarily as this will help development of not just this years car, but next years too (and all the following ones until the next major aero shake up).
The fact that they were basically free to run whatever strategy they wanted without fear of really losing significant positions or places allowed him to rescue a brilliant result considering the circumstances.
Even K-mag stayed out circling around plumb last for most of the race. Data is the most valuable commodity, especially around a track they have already driven around in a previous configuration of the car(s). They need to assess progress.
The benefit is obvious, obviously. The real issue is simply a cost/benefit question. They have a car they still don't fully understand, with problems they can only recreate on track. They just shipped a load of new parts on the car.
They needed the mileage of BOTH cars in a full race distance to evaluate whether those parts made a difference. A 7 time WDC and the supposed GOAT should know that any mileage in this era of cost caps and testing limits is golden mileage.
At this stage, saving the engine would be a secondary priority to understanding the aero and making sure that the fixes they are shipping correlate on track to the numbers they are expecting, primarily as this will help development of not just this years car, but next years too (and all the following ones until the next major aero shake up).
The fact that they were basically free to run whatever strategy they wanted without fear of really losing significant positions or places allowed him to rescue a brilliant result considering the circumstances.
Even K-mag stayed out circling around plumb last for most of the race. Data is the most valuable commodity, especially around a track they have already driven around in a previous configuration of the car(s). They need to assess progress.
There are many positives of having the car on-circuit running around. The costs are, on the other hand, significant.
LH took a lot out of his engine during the race. As we all know, following another car, out-braking, sudden changes of direction, are all work. GR was complaining of temperature problems – and we all know the damage high temperatures can inflict on engines and ancillaries, which includes a 7xWDC and GOAT – when running in clear air and these engines are as tied to mileage as the fuel tanks on the cars. Take more out of it one race, and it shortens its life.
There are three FP sessions at each race. Add the hours up.
As Team Merc saw it, 8th was probable, so 4 points. Some teams would have been ecstatic at the possibility. However, if it means LH starting from the back in a future race he might well have a chance of winning, that’s considerably more than 4 points, and don’t forget, starting from the back shortens the life-expectancy in mileage of the engine.
The equation was anything but simple. It’s not as if I’ve exhausted the negatives. There are more.
Did they learn anything from LH’s drive? I expect so, if only to discover how improved the car is, but I doubt they would have needed both, or even BOTH, cars racing to discover that.
LH went from over 50 seconds behind Russell to almost sitting on his gearbox. That cost him. Was it worth it? We, and we includes you, have no idea. The 7xWDC didn’t know at the time and was forced to ask. If 8th and 4 points was all that he’d get from trashing his engine, I’d guess that his confusion was well justified.
From an entirely selfish point of view, his drive added excitement to the race, although it would have been better if we’d seen a few more of his overtakes on TV. The race was fun and, on balance, I reckon LH might have felt it worthwhile, right up until he was told a DNF was possible. Was it engine related? If it was fuel related, then that weighs into the equation on the negative side. Going through the field uses up fuel and he was given just enough at the start to see his through the race from 6th. Did they take that into account? So not, in any way, shape or form, a simple decision, even for a 7xWDC and GOAT.
Kevin’s car was a mobile billboard making the comparison flawed.
(I’m not suggesting LH is the GOAT. I think such accolades rather silly. I only used it because the poster used the term, albeit modified.)
Leclerc's retirement was a shame, it would have been good to see him and Max together at the end of the race, with Max's intermittent DRS issue to mix things up a bit more.
Mercedes look like the p3 team now they've got the car settled. It will be good to have 3 teams in the mix from now on, for the races and the championships.
Norris was ill this weekend, he's been diagnosed with tonsillitis now. P8 was pretty good going with that going on.
It looks like the heat this weekend caught teams out with the cooling. I think Russell said at the end that the reason they had to lift and coast to get to the end was brake temperatures, so maybe they had smaller ducts set for cooler conditions?
Mercedes look like the p3 team now they've got the car settled. It will be good to have 3 teams in the mix from now on, for the races and the championships.
Norris was ill this weekend, he's been diagnosed with tonsillitis now. P8 was pretty good going with that going on.
It looks like the heat this weekend caught teams out with the cooling. I think Russell said at the end that the reason they had to lift and coast to get to the end was brake temperatures, so maybe they had smaller ducts set for cooler conditions?
Derek Smith said:
TypeRTim said:
The benefit is quite simple really.
They have a car they still don't fully understand, with problems they can only recreate on track. They just shipped a load of new parts on the car.
They needed the mileage of BOTH cars in a full race distance to evaluate whether those parts made a difference. A 7 time WDC and the supposed GOAT should know that any mileage in this era of cost caps and testing limits is golden mileage.
At this stage, saving the engine would be a secondary priority to understanding the aero and making sure that the fixes they are shipping correlate on track to the numbers they are expecting, primarily as this will help development of not just this years car, but next years too (and all the following ones until the next major aero shake up).
The fact that they were basically free to run whatever strategy they wanted without fear of really losing significant positions or places allowed him to rescue a brilliant result considering the circumstances.
Even K-mag stayed out circling around plumb last for most of the race. Data is the most valuable commodity, especially around a track they have already driven around in a previous configuration of the car(s). They need to assess progress.
The benefit is obvious, obviously. The real issue is simply a cost/benefit question. They have a car they still don't fully understand, with problems they can only recreate on track. They just shipped a load of new parts on the car.
They needed the mileage of BOTH cars in a full race distance to evaluate whether those parts made a difference. A 7 time WDC and the supposed GOAT should know that any mileage in this era of cost caps and testing limits is golden mileage.
At this stage, saving the engine would be a secondary priority to understanding the aero and making sure that the fixes they are shipping correlate on track to the numbers they are expecting, primarily as this will help development of not just this years car, but next years too (and all the following ones until the next major aero shake up).
The fact that they were basically free to run whatever strategy they wanted without fear of really losing significant positions or places allowed him to rescue a brilliant result considering the circumstances.
Even K-mag stayed out circling around plumb last for most of the race. Data is the most valuable commodity, especially around a track they have already driven around in a previous configuration of the car(s). They need to assess progress.
There are many positives of having the car on-circuit running around. The costs are, on the other hand, significant.
LH took a lot out of his engine during the race. As we all know, following another car, out-braking, sudden changes of direction, are all work. GR was complaining of temperature problems – and we all know the damage high temperatures can inflict on engines and ancillaries, which includes a 7xWDC and GOAT – when running in clear air and these engines are as tied to mileage as the fuel tanks on the cars. Take more out of it one race, and it shortens its life.
There are three FP sessions at each race. Add the hours up.
As Team Merc saw it, 8th was probable, so 4 points. Some teams would have been ecstatic at the possibility. However, if it means LH starting from the back in a future race he might well have a chance of winning, that’s considerably more than 4 points, and don’t forget, starting from the back shortens the life-expectancy in mileage of the engine.
The equation was anything but simple. It’s not as if I’ve exhausted the negatives. There are more.
Did they learn anything from LH’s drive? I expect so, if only to discover how improved the car is, but I doubt they would have needed both, or even BOTH, cars racing to discover that.
LH went from over 50 seconds behind Russell to almost sitting on his gearbox. That cost him. Was it worth it? We, and we includes you, have no idea. The 7xWDC didn’t know at the time and was forced to ask. If 8th and 4 points was all that he’d get from trashing his engine, I’d guess that his confusion was well justified.
From an entirely selfish point of view, his drive added excitement to the race, although it would have been better if we’d seen a few more of his overtakes on TV. The race was fun and, on balance, I reckon LH might have felt it worthwhile, right up until he was told a DNF was possible. Was it engine related? If it was fuel related, then that weighs into the equation on the negative side. Going through the field uses up fuel and he was given just enough at the start to see his through the race from 6th. Did they take that into account? So not, in any way, shape or form, a simple decision, even for a 7xWDC and GOAT.
Kevin’s car was a mobile billboard making the comparison flawed.
(I’m not suggesting LH is the GOAT. I think such accolades rather silly. I only used it because the poster used the term, albeit modified.)
your point re: reliability is a decent one - but remember how he basically clawed back a huge deficit last year in the WDC because he took an unscheduled engine change with 4 races to go that put him to the back of the pack. Albeit, last year the financial penalties and restrictions aren't the same as this year, granted.
This early in the season, you need as much data as possible. I think the cooling problems was also a 'shadow positive', especially as it was experienced on both cars. They have double the data to learn from and 2 engines to examine to see if there was definite cause/effect.
If lewis had made the radio call after circling for 20 laps way out back without a chance of catching somebody, I would have more sympathy for his position and agree with him more - but it was only a couple of laps after the incident, the race was still so young!
TypeRTim said:
They've admitted they're not really in the fight for the WDC and/or WCC this year, at least not on pace.
your point re: reliability is a decent one - but remember how he basically clawed back a huge deficit last year in the WDC because he took an unscheduled engine change with 4 races to go that put him to the back of the pack. Albeit, last year the financial penalties and restrictions aren't the same as this year, granted.
This early in the season, you need as much data as possible. I think the cooling problems was also a 'shadow positive', especially as it was experienced on both cars. They have double the data to learn from and 2 engines to examine to see if there was definite cause/effect.
If lewis had made the radio call after circling for 20 laps way out back without a chance of catching somebody, I would have more sympathy for his position and agree with him more - but it was only a couple of laps after the incident, the race was still so young!
A good driver will challenge his engineer to justify the new plan, particularly if it's counter to what was agreed in the prebrief, or the scenario wasn't expected or discussed. An immature driver will either ignore it or argue with it: Hamilton did neither, he simply offered the alternative to make sure it had been considered & discounted, & then got on with getting the best result from the car that was possible. Good communication, nothing more than that.your point re: reliability is a decent one - but remember how he basically clawed back a huge deficit last year in the WDC because he took an unscheduled engine change with 4 races to go that put him to the back of the pack. Albeit, last year the financial penalties and restrictions aren't the same as this year, granted.
This early in the season, you need as much data as possible. I think the cooling problems was also a 'shadow positive', especially as it was experienced on both cars. They have double the data to learn from and 2 engines to examine to see if there was definite cause/effect.
If lewis had made the radio call after circling for 20 laps way out back without a chance of catching somebody, I would have more sympathy for his position and agree with him more - but it was only a couple of laps after the incident, the race was still so young!
My thoughts on yesterday:
Merc have pretty much confirmed water leaks on both cars now, George did comment early in the race about a "cool car" warning when he was running in fresh air.
Channel 4 highlights was a bit rubbish wasn't it? Rather than highlights they just seemed to have cut chunks out of the race.
Max does a good road rage doesn't he?
Carlos Sainz is being shown up for being a very good but obviously not great driver, and I'm not just talking about the spin & recovery.
Perez obviously didn't get the memo about being No. 2 to Max did he?
Lewis' comments about retiring were valid and obviously nearly prophetic, I thought a predicted 8th was optimistic but the real LH is still there despite the naysayers that have come out of the woodwork this season.
Merc have pretty much confirmed water leaks on both cars now, George did comment early in the race about a "cool car" warning when he was running in fresh air.
Channel 4 highlights was a bit rubbish wasn't it? Rather than highlights they just seemed to have cut chunks out of the race.
Max does a good road rage doesn't he?
Carlos Sainz is being shown up for being a very good but obviously not great driver, and I'm not just talking about the spin & recovery.
Perez obviously didn't get the memo about being No. 2 to Max did he?
Lewis' comments about retiring were valid and obviously nearly prophetic, I thought a predicted 8th was optimistic but the real LH is still there despite the naysayers that have come out of the woodwork this season.
MarkwG said:
TypeRTim said:
They've admitted they're not really in the fight for the WDC and/or WCC this year, at least not on pace.
your point re: reliability is a decent one - but remember how he basically clawed back a huge deficit last year in the WDC because he took an unscheduled engine change with 4 races to go that put him to the back of the pack. Albeit, last year the financial penalties and restrictions aren't the same as this year, granted.
This early in the season, you need as much data as possible. I think the cooling problems was also a 'shadow positive', especially as it was experienced on both cars. They have double the data to learn from and 2 engines to examine to see if there was definite cause/effect.
If lewis had made the radio call after circling for 20 laps way out back without a chance of catching somebody, I would have more sympathy for his position and agree with him more - but it was only a couple of laps after the incident, the race was still so young!
A good driver will challenge his engineer to justify the new plan, particularly if it's counter to what was agreed in the prebrief, or the scenario wasn't expected or discussed. An immature driver will either ignore it or argue with it: Hamilton did neither, he simply offered the alternative to make sure it had been considered & discounted, & then got on with getting the best result from the car that was possible. Good communication, nothing more than that.your point re: reliability is a decent one - but remember how he basically clawed back a huge deficit last year in the WDC because he took an unscheduled engine change with 4 races to go that put him to the back of the pack. Albeit, last year the financial penalties and restrictions aren't the same as this year, granted.
This early in the season, you need as much data as possible. I think the cooling problems was also a 'shadow positive', especially as it was experienced on both cars. They have double the data to learn from and 2 engines to examine to see if there was definite cause/effect.
If lewis had made the radio call after circling for 20 laps way out back without a chance of catching somebody, I would have more sympathy for his position and agree with him more - but it was only a couple of laps after the incident, the race was still so young!
The tone was quite defeatist and depressed, rather than questioning and inquisitive. He wasn't challenging a strategy call from his engineer - he was opting to retire the car.
What he did afterwards, with the strategic freedom, was impressive nonetheless.
TypeRTim said:
"I would save the engine if I were you" - is different to "should we think about saving mileage on this engine, guys?".
The tone was quite defeatist and depressed, rather than questioning and inquisitive. He wasn't challenging a strategy call from his engineer - he was opting to retire the car.
What he did afterwards, with the strategic freedom, was impressive nonetheless.
Can't think why he'd be a bit depressed after being driven into on the 4th corner of the race, dropping over a minute to the leader, and ending up 19th one minute into a race that he started 6th. Snowflake.The tone was quite defeatist and depressed, rather than questioning and inquisitive. He wasn't challenging a strategy call from his engineer - he was opting to retire the car.
What he did afterwards, with the strategic freedom, was impressive nonetheless.
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