The Official F1 2023 silly season *contains speculation*
Discussion
andburg said:
I don’t think the time at Williams harmed Russell whatsoever, had he made a break it would not have been to Red Bull or Ferrari so he’d be in a slower team now.
Yep, he did say early on that it allowed him to get used to F1 out of the limelight and media pressure. He maybe was there a year too long but that's no big deal really.Alpine had two FP1 sessions lined up for Piastri after the summer break and were negotiating an F1 drive next season ahead of a factory drive. They'd put on a bunch of private tests in Alpine/Renault F1 machinery for him.
Doesn't seem like such a bad deal to me, it doesnt really get much better than that in F1 these days. A season in a Williams is better than another reserve driver season, sure Russell probably spent a season too long there but he's now come into Mercedes in a great, experienced position.
Unless there is more to it than those basic facts he must have a very compelling reason to break those ties.
Doesn't seem like such a bad deal to me, it doesnt really get much better than that in F1 these days. A season in a Williams is better than another reserve driver season, sure Russell probably spent a season too long there but he's now come into Mercedes in a great, experienced position.
Unless there is more to it than those basic facts he must have a very compelling reason to break those ties.
ch37 said:
Alpine had two FP1 sessions lined up for Piastri after the summer break and were negotiating an F1 drive next season ahead of a factory drive. They'd put on a bunch of private tests in Alpine/Renault F1 machinery for him.
Doesn't seem like such a bad deal to me, it doesnt really get much better than that in F1 these days. A season in a Williams is better than another reserve driver season, sure Russell probably spent a season too long there but he's now come into Mercedes in a great, experienced position.
Unless there is more to it than those basic facts he must have a very compelling reason to break those ties.
I think the big difference is the success of the teamDoesn't seem like such a bad deal to me, it doesnt really get much better than that in F1 these days. A season in a Williams is better than another reserve driver season, sure Russell probably spent a season too long there but he's now come into Mercedes in a great, experienced position.
Unless there is more to it than those basic facts he must have a very compelling reason to break those ties.
GR was at Williams but was on the verge of stepping into a race winning car at a top team, he had a clear path to the front.
OP is not in a car, was potentially about to loaned out to the slowest team and the car he is promised to is only 4th/5th fastest.
By jumping ship GR was removing the clear path, Oscar just didnt have that. Oscar just had a direct route to a team that has made big claims and plans for the last 5 years without making any real inroads.
Assuming Oscar had no advance knowledge of Alonso's move he was stuck behind Alonso's "10 minute contract" for at least 1 more year knowing Ocon was contracted until the end of 2024
vaud said:
A better car and not losing a year at the back of the grid would be fairly compelling to most drivers?
Exactly, it appears that Piastri signed with McLaren when the alternative was a year at Williams and nothing certain for 2024 as Alonso was looking to stay on. So the decision wasn't Alpine vs McLaren but Williams vs McLaren. Then "wily old fox" Alonso shook things up by signing for AM, announcing it after the Piastri/McLaren deal was already done.andburg said:
I think the big difference is the success of the team
It may pay off, it may not, but it's a brave decision given the nature of F1. It's the sort of decision you'd expect a guy with 5 seasons under his belt to make, not a new driver. To date George was closer to a win (twice!) during his time at Williams than he has been in 2022, such is the madness of F1. Of course he's now in a team expected to challenge for wins, but the McLaren / Alpine divide is far less clear than Williams / Mercedes, Alpine actually ahead in the WCC this year.
_Yeti said:
Byker28i said:
Certainly interesting reading for all those people who were criticising Piastri
Genuinely shocked by the amount of Piastri bashing going on (especially in the Autosport comments). Nobody actually knows the details yet but people are basically spitting on Piastri and saying his career deserves to be over? Likes Fast Cars said:
vaud said:
Adrian W said:
I'm still hoping Piastri falls on his arse and ends up without a drive
Why? He's no Dan Ticktum... and he has a serious amount of talent. He may be being badly advised, or very well advised, we don't know enough?He's certainly no Fabio Leimer or Georgio Pantano.
ch37 said:
Unless there is more to it than those basic facts he must have a very compelling reason to break those ties.
Over the last three years, Alpine/Renault have seen the departure of two Team Principals (Cyril Abiteboul and Marcin Budkowski) and two World Champions (Fernando Alonso & Alain Prost) as well as Daniel Ricciardo.Meanwhile McLaren have had a fair level of stability since the Zak Brown + Andreas Seidl leadership was established in early 2019.
Strong and stable leadership doesn't guarantee success, but I can't think of any teams that have succeeded consistently without it.
Lando Norris has substantially more points than any Alpine driver, this year as last.
Oscar Piastri will be confident of earning similarly superior results in his 2023 McLaren.
samoht said:
ch37 said:
Unless there is more to it than those basic facts he must have a very compelling reason to break those ties.
Over the last three years, Alpine/Renault have seen the departure of two Team Principals (Cyril Abiteboul and Marcin Budkowski) and two World Champions (Fernando Alonso & Alain Prost) as well as Daniel Ricciardo.Meanwhile McLaren have had a fair level of stability since the Zak Brown + Andreas Seidl leadership was established in early 2019.
Strong and stable leadership doesn't guarantee success, but I can't think of any teams that have succeeded consistently without it.
Lando Norris has substantially more points than any Alpine driver, this year as last.
Oscar Piastri will be confident of earning similarly superior results in his 2023 McLaren.
The only reason McLaren are behind Alpine in the standings is that Ricciardo isn't pulling his weight. Four points in it and DR is 57 points behind Norris.
spikyone said:
Exactly. Revolving door leadership, a manufacturer backer whose F1 participation over the years has resembled the hokey cokey, and the inability to properly arrange a contract vs. a seat at McLaren, who've absolutely turned things around under Brown and Seidl - it's absolutely no contest.
The only reason McLaren are behind Alpine in the standings is that Ricciardo isn't pulling his weight. Four points in it and DR is 57 points behind Norris.
I have a sneaking suspicion that Renault as a parent company might actually be content with where they are at performance wise. Sure they'd like to win but now the budget cap means you can break even much more easily and then turn a profit with enough points, maybe they are getting all the financial and marketing gains they need.The only reason McLaren are behind Alpine in the standings is that Ricciardo isn't pulling his weight. Four points in it and DR is 57 points behind Norris.
Sure, Alonso walked because his ego was hurt as much as anything but given Piastri has also opted to NOT drive for them and risk a serious falling out over a contract dispute.... There's got to be something fundamental about the philosophy of the approach of the team and their participation in F1.
They have made all the right noises the last 5 or 6 years, but I honestly think the last 2 they have just held on for the budget cap and now they know they can be assured of a profit with current performance, maybe they aren't actually investing and developing behind the scenes and are content. Could this be a factor in the change of leadership recently and 2 drivers opting NOT to drive for them? One of whom has gone to a lower performing team too.
Why's everyone heralding George's story with an assumed validation that Williams was the best place for piastri?
1. George may well have set the world on fire and been ready for Merc from the off - he was an accomplished racer, not a fast-tracked verstappen, he might already be a multiple.
2. Ocon, Werlien, young drivers often don't make it upstairs - what's in your hand today is has something over what's promised tomorrow.
3. George was serving his time staring at mercedes as his reward. Piastris carrot is alpine.
4. Also, George served his time with the best team ever in his sights only to eventually get through as they waned. Obviously we're in quite a fluid position right now but the best teams tend to rotate...
1. George may well have set the world on fire and been ready for Merc from the off - he was an accomplished racer, not a fast-tracked verstappen, he might already be a multiple.
2. Ocon, Werlien, young drivers often don't make it upstairs - what's in your hand today is has something over what's promised tomorrow.
3. George was serving his time staring at mercedes as his reward. Piastris carrot is alpine.
4. Also, George served his time with the best team ever in his sights only to eventually get through as they waned. Obviously we're in quite a fluid position right now but the best teams tend to rotate...
spunkytherabbit said:
spikyone said:
Exactly. Revolving door leadership, a manufacturer backer whose F1 participation over the years has resembled the hokey cokey, and the inability to properly arrange a contract vs. a seat at McLaren, who've absolutely turned things around under Brown and Seidl - it's absolutely no contest.
The only reason McLaren are behind Alpine in the standings is that Ricciardo isn't pulling his weight. Four points in it and DR is 57 points behind Norris.
I have a sneaking suspicion that Renault as a parent company might actually be content with where they are at performance wise. Sure they'd like to win but now the budget cap means you can break even much more easily and then turn a profit with enough points, maybe they are getting all the financial and marketing gains they need.The only reason McLaren are behind Alpine in the standings is that Ricciardo isn't pulling his weight. Four points in it and DR is 57 points behind Norris.
Sure, Alonso walked because his ego was hurt as much as anything but given Piastri has also opted to NOT drive for them and risk a serious falling out over a contract dispute.... There's got to be something fundamental about the philosophy of the approach of the team and their participation in F1.
They have made all the right noises the last 5 or 6 years, but I honestly think the last 2 they have just held on for the budget cap and now they know they can be assured of a profit with current performance, maybe they aren't actually investing and developing behind the scenes and are content. Could this be a factor in the change of leadership recently and 2 drivers opting NOT to drive for them? One of whom has gone to a lower performing team too.
Teddy Lop said:
Why's everyone heralding George's story with an assumed validation that Williams was the best place for piastri?
1. George may well have set the world on fire and been ready for Merc from the off - he was an accomplished racer, not a fast-tracked verstappen, he might already be a multiple.
Exactly I think people conveniently forget that Russell and Piastri are proven championship winners not journeymen like Albon and Latifi.1. George may well have set the world on fire and been ready for Merc from the off - he was an accomplished racer, not a fast-tracked verstappen, he might already be a multiple.
Their pedigree in the lower formula's has to put them near to Hamilton in terms of raw skill and winnability and look how he turned out when he got promoted straight into a top team.
Also look at the way Russell performed when he got promoted to the Merc race seat to cover for Lewis he would have won if he wasn't screwed, now don't tell me that came from running around 1 second off the pace in that piece of s
t Williams. You could have put Russell straight in that Merc and he would have been competitive.It's not as if Piastri is going to turn up in Aus in 23 and the Mclaren is the first f1 car he has ever set eyes on, all these drivers do tests, sim and set up work.
Years in a Williams miles off the pace doesn't help winners you only have to look at the way Russell acted after Massi's complete joke of a "race" in Belgium a proven championship winner celebrating a farce like he has just won the wdc.
Also where is this "year" in a Williams for Piastri coming from anyway? They have got Ocon until end of 24 and Otmar said that they were going to offer Alonso at least a 1+1 or 1+2 or even more if he kept performing until he f
ked them off for Aston so that's at least 2 full seasons in a Williams miles off the pace when he had the offer of a Mclaren seat where Norris is showing it's circa the 4th best car on the grid and I imagine if they had a driver like Piastri this season they would be well clear of Alpine in the wcc.Fat Thor said:
Ego hurt? Fred is winning in life just signed up for a multi year deal.
Yeah a little. He has made comment since signing his Aston deal that quite clearly showed he took exception to the fact that any multi year deal with Alpine was dependent on a performance against Piastri to prove he was still quickest. I would say that does show a hurt ego somewhat, but it was a statement about just that. Not a slate on Alonso.I was fundamentally questioning Alpine/Renault's motive in F1 and was hoping someone would test my logic for me.
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